Support companies - which ones are the MUST?

[Aron_77]

Dear Gamers, I have looked through some guides, and I can't really decide, what are the absolute necessary support companies? (I mean universally applicable infantry divisions for small nations) Artillery, engineers - it is okay. Recon? Signal? Any other?

[HugsAndSnuggles]

For infantry? Unless going for line battalions - arty and rockets (especially for SF doctrine). AA, if you expect enemy air (which is the case more often than not). Everything else is situaional.

[drewbstar]

Engineers and arty are the most popular ones. Engineers provide a good source of buffs defensively (entrenchment) and offensively (terrain debuff reduction).
Arty is a cheap way to get a nice increase to your soft attack.

Everything else depends on your doctrine and theatre.
Tanks have good use for signal companies, otherwise they're pretty meh.
Rocket arty is nice but requires a heavier investment of another factory line and research.
FH is good for low manpower countries.
Maint is good for low IC countries.
Logistics is very useful for saving oil and fighting in areas like Africa or South America.

[Scar Glamour]

Artillery (including rockets) is a good source of soft attack.

Engineering is best for defense, but gives a nice boost to attack in some situations.

Anti-Air is essential if you don't have air superiority, since it cuts down losses from CAS a lot.

Flame tanks (Mediums especially) give great offensive bonuses and are good for stat padding. Extra armor and breakthrough never hurts even if it isn't all that much.

Light tank recon is okay if you have light tanks lying around, but only for stat padding. The recon stat itself is useless, so all other recon companies are garbage.

Anti-Tank is an overkill for single player, unless you need dedicated infantry divisions with AT to counter otherwise unpearceable armor.

Logistics is good for high-supply, fuel-guzzling divisions like tanks and motorized.

Maintenance companies only make sense for tank divisions to bring attention as low as possible.

Signal company is garbage, because coordination is wonky.

Field hospitals are too expensive for what they are.

Also keep in mind that every support company lowers division stats.

[Big [REDACTED] Marty]

light tank recon is actually amazing for SF, with the close support gun, it can act as a 3rd artillery company, and if you feel like going nutz, you can stack more cannons for even more soft attack, stacking soft attack on line infantry is a good meme

[Benny]

Support art and aa + engineers. Everything else is niche apart from field hospitals which should never be used.

[Aron_77]

Thank you pretty much! So, if someone playing a minor (tini-tiny) nation, like Estonia, what is the optimal composition of the all-purpose infantry division? If someone posted a screenshot, i'd really appreciate it!

[Viceroy Günther von Lichler]

In addition to everything thats been said keep in mind that some support companies have the speed stat of the vehicle used. Actually i think its JUST the recon support, possibly flame tank support too.
So if you are trying to make a really fast tank division and the speed is way to low for some reason, check that you arent using slow vehicles in your recon for instance.

[Big [REDACTED] Marty]

Originally posted by mathe.aron:

Thank you pretty much! So, if someone playing a minor (tini-tiny) nation, like Estonia, what is the optimal composition of the all-purpose infantry division? If someone posted a screenshot, i'd really appreciate it!

6 inf + 1 arty battalions
support AA, engi, and arty companies

it's a decent all around unit, but not great for fighting all of the allies

if you're going SF adding support rocket artillery is a good idea, also light tank recon with a close support gun, just for all that soft attack

[its so balatrover]

support AA, support arty, engineers, support AT only if you're facing enemies with armor and only if the piercing from support AA doesn't cut it

[Aluminum Elite Master]

Support companies depend greatly on situation:


Engineers increase entrenchment AND provide some attack/movement bonuses on various forms of terrain. They are one of the few I'd say I often try to add to most templates.

Recon is similar. It's a more universal boost than some of the others.

Logistics company... I'll use it here and there, when I'm really trying to not waste supplies (usually expensive tanks).

Maintenance company... it's mostly good for designed equipment that you gave low reliability. So, tanks, mechanized, and that's about it. The equipment capture bonus is fairly low unless you play Soviets and take the one tank designer that buffs it.

Field hospital... it's alright if you have big templates and not a ton of manpower. As the Soviets and Japan, I do sometimes use it. But if you don't fear running out of manpower, it's not a high priority.

Signal company... it's a universal benefit but not a spectacular one. Getting faster planning done is a universal benefit that often is not needed. I mean, you can just wait a little longer to plan and get the same planning bonus. I honestly wish the signal company raised the maximum planning instead of just increasing the speed it gets done, because that would be a whole different world from what it does now. And coordination bonus... meh.

All the various Support arty types: support artillery is reasonable and in cases better than line artillery. But the support AT is only all that needed in MP. And support AA is usable in spots, but it's very very niche... I use it almost exclusively as Japan while attacking China, because airfields are so far apart and Japan's ability to build aircraft for both carriers and land ops is not great. Otherwise, I'd rather have fighters than support AA.

Flame tanks: if you have the production to spend, they are very useful. But, there are a lot of things you may need to produce ahead of a specialist tank.

MP (military police): probably completely useless now. LaR added intel operatives that you can just place in a problem spot and forget about. This is one I used to put into small, cheap garrison type templates and spread across France, Poland, etc. after capturing them. But with LaR, I find myself not needing MP at all really.




*Hidden 'support-esque' stuff*

Dozer blades on designed tanks increase entrenchment. Putting an engineer support and dozer blade tank batt. together stacks the entrenchment. I thought it wouldn't stack, but IIRC, it does. So that's a big deal if you are planning on building a super strong defensive line (Soviets, France, and a few others often can consider static defenses like this). Dozer blade tanks are not support units, but their entrenchment benefit is something that almost no other batts. add in a template.

Amphibious tanks and mechanized (AMTracks), mountain divisions, marines: all of these provide bonuses to attack, movement, defense in a template. Their effect is watered down if added to standard templates, but they can essentially work as a sort of support unit in some spots. Often, they will be bunched together with their own batts., but in certain cases it may make sense to incorporate them with standard infantry (largely when hitting the SF caps). A slight bump to movement or attack or defense can come in handy even if it's watered down.

Super-heavy armor has a Fort attack buff. I know, I know, it's not like most nations other than a few select majors can probably amass enough super-heavy tanks to use them that well. But rather than using super-heavy armor like any other tank, it pays off to bear in mind that it's really almost a sort of support unit... using super-heavy armor and railway guns and strat bombing can really help overcome higher-level forts.

[Benny]

I think field hospitals are completely useless. There are always better ways to increase manpower. It also hampers xp gain.

[Mad_House]

Let's blow things up so that you can see exactly, which support companies do what in terms of hard game mechanics.

Artillery:

artillery = {

		need = {
			artillery_equipment = 12
		}
		manpower = 300
		training_time = 120
		max_organisation = 0
		default_morale = 0.1
		max_strength = 0.2
		weight = 0.1
		
		supply_consumption = 0.16

		# Support nerfs to combat abilities
		defense = -0.4
		breakthrough = -0.4
		soft_attack = -0.4
		hard_attack = -0.4


		can_be_parachuted = yes
	}
	
	rocket_artillery = {

		need = {
			rocket_artillery_equipment = 12
		}

		manpower = 300
		training_time = 120
		max_organisation = 0
		default_morale = 0.1
		max_strength = 0.2
		weight = 0.1
		
		supply_consumption = 0.16

		# Support nerfs to combat abilities
		defense = -0.5
		breakthrough = -0.5
		soft_attack = -0.5
		hard_attack = -0.5


		can_be_parachuted = yes
	}
}

Summary: The artillery support company adds 12 artillery pieces to your division. You get a small detriment to certain stats in exchange. This support is more useful if you are not adding artillery battalions of any kind to your division. If you have artillery pieces in your division already, you don't need it.

Anti-tank:

anti_tank = {

		need = {
			anti_tank_equipment = 24
		}
		manpower = 300
		max_organisation = 0
		default_morale = 0.1
		max_strength = 0.2
		training_time = 120
		weight = 0.1

		can_be_parachuted = yes
		
		supply_consumption = 0.08

		# Support nerfs to combat abilities
		defense = -0.5
		breakthrough = -0.5
		soft_attack = -0.5
		hard_attack = -0.5
		ap_attack = -0.15
	}
}

Summary: Anti-tank boosts your division with 24 anti-tank pieces. This is useful for divisions that have little to no hard attack whatsoever. If you don't have room for a standard anti-tank battalion or any tanks, this one can be useful.

Anti-air:

-House favorite

anti_air = {
		training_time = 120

		need = {
			anti_air_equipment = 20
		}

		can_be_parachuted = yes
		
		#Size Definitions
		max_strength = 0.2
		max_organisation = 0
		default_morale = 0.1
		manpower = 300
		weight = 0.1
		
        supply_consumption = 0.1

		# Support nerfs to combat abilities
		defense = -0.4
		breakthrough = -0.4
		soft_attack = -0.4
		hard_attack = -0.4
		air_attack = -0.2

	}
}

Summary: This adds 20 anti-air guns to your division. Since most units do not have any air attack whatsoever - I consider it essential unless your air force surpasses that of your enemy.

Flame tanks:

-House favorite

sub_units = {
	light_flame_tank = {

		#Size Definitions
		max_strength = 2
		max_organisation = 20
		default_morale = 0.3
		manpower = 300
		training_time = 120

		#Misc Abilities
		weight = 0.1
		supply_consumption = 0.02
		can_be_parachuted = yes

		soft_attack = -0.75
		hard_attack = -0.75
		defense = -0.75
		breakthrough = -0.75

		# Support nerfs to combat abilities
		armor_value = -0.75

		need = {
			light_tank_flame_chassis = 15
		}

		forest = {
			attack = 0.05
		}
		mountain = {
			attack = 0.05
		}
		hills = {
			attack = 0.05
		}
		jungle = {
			attack = 0.1
		}
		marsh = {
			attack = 0.05
		}
		urban = {
			attack = 0.1
		}
		fort = {
			attack = 0.1
			movement = 0.1
		}
		river = {
			attack = 0.1
		}
		amphibious = {
			attack = 0.1
		}

		same_support_type = flame
	}

	medium_flame_tank = {

		#Size Definitions
		max_strength = 2
		max_organisation = 20
		default_morale = 0.3
		manpower = 300
		training_time = 120

		#Misc Abilities
		weight = 0.1
		supply_consumption = 0.025
		can_be_parachuted = yes

		soft_attack = -0.7
		hard_attack = -0.7
		defense = -0.7
		breakthrough = -0.7

		# Support nerfs to combat abilities
		armor_value = -0.7

		need = {
			medium_tank_flame_chassis = 15
		}

		forest = {
			attack = 0.1
		}
		mountain = {
			attack = 0.05
		}
		hills = {
			attack = 0.05
		}
		jungle = {
			attack = 0.15
		}
		marsh = {
			attack = 0.05
		}
		urban = {
			attack = 0.15
		}
		fort = {
			attack = 0.2
			movement = 0.1
		}
		river = {
			attack = 0.1
		}
		amphibious = {
			attack = 0.1
		}

		same_support_type = flame
	}

	heavy_flame_tank = {

		#Size Definitions
		max_strength = 2
		max_organisation = 20
		default_morale = 0.3
		manpower = 300
		training_time = 120

		#Misc Abilities
		weight = 0.1
		supply_consumption = 0.03
		can_be_parachuted = yes

		soft_attack = -0.625
		hard_attack = -0.625
		defense = -0.625
		breakthrough = -0.625

		# Support nerfs to combat abilities
		armor_value = -0.625

		need = {
			heavy_tank_flame_chassis = 15
		}

		forest = {
			attack = 0.1
		}
		hills = {
			attack = 0.05
		}
		jungle = {
			attack = 0.1
		}
		marsh = {
			attack = 0.05
		}
		urban = {
			attack = 0.1
		}
		fort = {
			attack = 0.25
			movement = 0.1
		}
		river = {
			attack = 0.05
		}
		amphibious = {
			attack = 0.05
		}

		same_support_type = flame
	}
}

Summary: These flame tank companies simply increase your attack in various types of terrain. They do nerf some of your division stats, but ultimately the trade-off is worth it.

Recon:

-House favorite

sub_units = {
	recon = { #mounted cav
	
		#Size Definitions
		max_strength = 2
		max_organisation = 20
		default_morale = 0.3
		manpower = 500
		training_time = 120

		#Misc Abilities
		weight = 0.1
		supply_consumption = 0.02
		recon = 1
		can_be_parachuted = yes

		# Support nerfs to combat abilities
		defense = -0.5
		breakthrough = -0.5
		soft_attack = -0.9
		hard_attack = -0.9

		maximum_speed = 0.6 # move at horsie speeds
		
		essential = {
			infantry_equipment
			support_equipment
		}

		need = {
			infantry_equipment = 40
			support_equipment = 10
		}

		forest = {
			movement = 0.05
		}
		hills = {
			movement = 0.10
		}
		mountain = {
			movement = 0.10
		}
		jungle = {
			movement = 0.10
		}
		marsh = {
			movement = 0.10
		}
		plains = {
			movement = 0.05
		}
		desert = {
			movement = 0.05
		}
		river = {
			movement = 0.1
		}
		
		same_support_type = recon # blocks adding other recon types to template
	}

	mot_recon = { #trucks, motorcyles, ill-placed cars
	
		#Size Definitions
		max_strength 		= 2
		max_organisation 	= 20
		default_morale 		= 0.3
		manpower 			= 500
		training_time 		= 120

		#Misc Abilities
		weight 				= 0.1
		supply_consumption 	= 0.02
		recon 				= 1.5
		can_be_parachuted 	= yes

		# Support nerfs to combat abilities
		defense = -0.09
		breakthrough = -0.5
		soft_attack = -0.9
		hard_attack = -0.9
		
		essential = {
			infantry_equipment
			support_equipment
			motorized_equipment
		}

		transport = motorized_equipment
		need = {
			infantry_equipment = 40
			support_equipment = 10
			motorized_equipment = 20
		}

		forest = {
			movement = 0.05
		}
		hills = {
			movement = 0.1
		}
		mountain = {
			movement = 0.1
		}
		jungle = {
			movement = 0.05
		}
		marsh = {
			movement = 0.1
		}
		plains = {
			movement = 0.15
		}
		desert = {
			movement = 0.20
		}
		river = {
			movement = 0.1
		}
		
		same_support_type = recon # blocks adding other recon types to template
	}

	armored_car_recon = { #armored_cars
	
		#Size Definitions
		max_strength = 2
		max_organisation = 20
		default_morale = 0.3
		manpower = 500
		training_time = 120

		#Misc Abilities
		weight = 0.1
		supply_consumption = 0.02
		recon = 2
		can_be_parachuted = yes

		# Support nerfs to combat abilities
		breakthrough 	= -0.2
		defense 		= -0.5		
		soft_attack 	= -0.5
		hard_attack 	= -0.5
		
		essential = {
			armored_car_equipment
		}

		need = {
			armored_car_equipment = 24
		}

		forest = {
			movement = 0.05
		}
		hills = {
			movement = 0.1
		}
		mountain = {
			movement = 0.05
		}
		jungle = {
			movement = 0.05
		}
		#marsh = {
		#	movement = 0.1
		#}
		plains = {
			movement = 0.15
		}
		desert = {
			movement = 0.15
		}
		river = {
			movement = 0.1
		}
		
		same_support_type = recon # blocks adding other recon types to template
	}

	light_tank_recon = { #light tanks
	
		#Size Definitions
		max_strength = 2
		max_organisation = 20
		default_morale = 0.3
		manpower = 500
		training_time = 120

		#Misc Abilities
		weight = 0.1
		supply_consumption = 0.02
		recon = 1
		can_be_parachuted = yes

		# Support nerfs to combat abilities
		defense = -0.6
		breakthrough = -0.6
		soft_attack = -0.6
		hard_attack = -0.6
		armor_value = -0.6

		essential = {
			light_tank_chassis
		}

		need = {
			light_tank_chassis = 24
		}

		forest = {
			movement = 0.1
		}
		hills = {
			movement = 0.1
		}
		mountain = {
			movement = 0.1
		}
		jungle = {
			movement = 0.1
		}
		marsh = {
			movement = 0.1
		}
		plains = {
			movement = 0.1
		}
		desert = {
			movement = 0.1
		}
		river = {
			movement = 0.1
		}
		same_support_type = recon # blocks adding other recon types to template
	}
}

Summary: In short, the armored car recon option is my personal favorite because it has the least harmful nerf, offers increased movement speed in various terrain, and adds recon ability to your platoon - It has a small but useful effect.

Engineer:

-House favorite

sub_units = {
	engineer = {
	
		#Size Definitions
		max_strength = 2
		max_organisation = 20
		default_morale = 0.3
		manpower = 300
		training_time = 120

		#Misc Abilities
		weight = 0.1
		supply_consumption = 0.02
		
		entrenchment  = 5

				
		defense = 0.1
		breakthrough = 0.5

		# Support nerfs to combat abilities
		soft_attack = -0.5

		essential = {
			support_equipment
		}

		need = {
			infantry_equipment = 10
			support_equipment = 30
		}

		can_be_parachuted = yes
		forest = {
			defence = 0.25
			movement = 0.05
		}

		hills = {
			defence = 0.1
		}

		jungle = {
			defence = 0.25
		}

		marsh = {
			defence = 0.25
			movement = 0.2
		}

		fort = {
			attack = 0.1
			defence = 0.25
		}

		river = {
			defence = 0.25
			movement = 0.25
		}

		amphibious = {
			attack = 0.25
		}
	}
}

Summary: Add engineers to your divisions. Just do it.

Logistics:

-House favorite

sub_units = {
	logistics_company = {
	
		#Size Definitions
		max_strength = 1
		max_organisation = 10	
		default_morale = 0.3
		manpower = 500
		training_time = 120

		#Misc Abilities
		weight = 0.1
		can_be_parachuted = yes

		# Important Ability
		supply_consumption_factor = -0.1
		fuel_consumption_factor = -0.05

		own_equipment_fuel_consumption_mult = 0.0 # no fuel use
		
		essential = {
			support_equipment
			motorized_equipment
		}

		need = {
			support_equipment = 20
			motorized_equipment = 10
		}

	}
}

Summary: Logistics can be (extremely) useful for companies that consume a lot of supply or are forced to fight in low-supply areas. They can make it possible for you to roll a division of super-heavy tanks across war-torn Russia. Or war-torn Germany.

Maintenance:

sub_units = {
	maintenance_company = {
	
		#Size Definitions
		max_strength = 1
		max_organisation = 20	
		default_morale = 0.3
		manpower = 500
		training_time = 120

		#Misc Abilities
		weight = 0.1
		supply_consumption = 0.03
		can_be_parachuted = yes
		
		# Important Ability
		reliability_factor = 0.05
		equipment_capture_factor = 0.05
		
		essential = {
			support_equipment
		}
		
		need = {
			support_equipment = 25
		}

	}
}

Summary: If you are having difficulty producing enough weapons, tanks, etc. because of the size of your country and a lack of factories, or national ideas hindering your production - this is an essential addition. Otherwise? It's not quite necessary. Especially if you're doing research with companies that add extra reliability to your tanks.

Military Police:

sub_units = {
	military_police = {
	
		#Size Definitions
		max_strength = 1
		max_organisation = 0	
		default_morale = 0.3
		manpower = 500
		training_time = 180

		#Misc Abilities
		weight = 0.1
		supply_consumption = 0.02
		can_be_parachuted = yes
		
		# Important Ability
		suppression_factor = 0.20

		essential = {
			infantry_equipment
			support_equipment
		}
		
		need = {
			support_equipment = 10
			infantry_equipment = 40
		}

	}
}

Summary: Only useful for the division templates you intend to use for troop garrisons.

Field Hospital:

sub_units = {
	field_hospital = {
	
		#Size Definitions
		max_strength = 2
		max_organisation = 20
		default_morale = 0.3
		manpower = 500
		training_time = 120

		#Misc Abilities
		weight = 0.1
		supply_consumption = 0.05
		can_be_parachuted = yes

		# Important Ability
		casualty_trickleback = 0.20
		experience_loss_factor = -0.10

		own_equipment_fuel_consumption_mult = 0.0 # no fuel use

		essential = {
			support_equipment
			motorized_equipment
		}
		
		need = {
			support_equipment = 30
			motorized_equipment = 20
		}
	}
}

Summary: If you are having difficulties with manpower, field hospitals are an important addition to your division. Let's say you're playing Switzerland, for example? This is a perfect addition. Soviet Russia on the other hand, you have better options.

Signal:

signal_company = {

		#Size Definitions
		max_strength = 1
		max_organisation = 20
		default_morale = 0.3
		manpower = 500
		training_time = 120

		#Misc Abilities
		weight = 0.1
		supply_consumption = 0.02
		can_be_parachuted = yes
		
		# Important Ability
		initiative = 0.20
		
		own_equipment_fuel_consumption_mult = 0.0 # no fuel use
		
		essential = {
			support_equipment
			motorized_equipment
		}

		need = {
			support_equipment = 20
			motorized_equipment = 10
		}

	}
}

Summary: Signal companies boost initiative. Initiative matters in the actual battles, because it's where your unit responds to the enemy with "counters." Faster counters can mean faster victories in each battle. If you are not researching army doctrines, you don't really need this - if you are researching army doctrines, this can let your units apply them faster.

[Aron_77]

Many many thanks!

[mk11]

Field hospitals are about xp loss mitigation. A defensive division under constant attack can gain levels a lot faster. Once it reaches max level you could change template and drop the hospital for something else.

Maintenance is good if you move a lot in bad terrain. e.g. mountain divisions. Also, if you expect to win every battle it can get you a lot of recovered equipment losses.

Hospitals, maintenance, logistics do very little at the 1st model but by the latest model the bonuses are a lot more useful.

[Varenvel The Festive Dinosaur]

rockets are useless , its technology who comes at very least , 1942 , and it will take year or two before you can actualy produce it in quantities to implemend in selected divisions

on paper its good but it comes so late any advantage it gains you wont see till you get other techs , and even then you would have to produce it in sufficient quantity

"minor stats" over arty are meaningless , 98 times out of 100 it wont make diffrance in your battles

you could focus on regular arty , and CAS who in current version of the game is OP , not only air superiority debuffs enemies but inflicts casulties and org loss on enemy

what rocket arty does? , tinybit more soft attack over regular arty

Originally posted by mk11:

Field hospitals are about xp loss mitigation. A defensive division under constant attack can gain levels a lot faster. Once it reaches max level you could change template and drop the hospital for something else.

Maintenance is good if you move a lot in bad terrain. e.g. mountain divisions. Also, if you expect to win every battle it can get you a lot of recovered equipment losses.

Hospitals, maintenance, logistics do very little at the 1st model but by the latest model the bonuses are a lot more useful.

Meitenance companies are S tier , same as AA and logistics companies(if you grind logistics wizard they can be skipped unless your doing some girthy 35+ divisions)




i seen few test , field hospitals sadly...dont do much , its not useless support company but your better off with others 9/10

https://youtu.be/e9m2KO_w6E8