how the hell does russia still have so much manpower?

[Aux|DecendedDemon]

so to set the scene, in my game the following happend: altho historic is on for some reason germany was unable to put down poland as late as 1942 suffering nearly 2 million casualties to poland alone, this results in just as germany is about to capitulate the russians invade poland too, which because the germans never broke the molotov ribbentrov pact puts them on techinically the same side so it becomes axis and commitern vs allies war, so germany capiltulates soon after, hitler somehow stays in power somehow the rest of the axis being dead, about 7 seconds later the soviets invade armyless germany and puppets it, so its now a 3 way war between the commitern, allies, and japanese eventually the japanese go into a civill war and they drop out of the war, at this point when i see the allies pushing back the commitern, i as romania who has not done anything since the start of the game besides annexing bulgaria and greece finally join the war unleashing some 230 divisions and now for the fun part:

LITERALLY 10 YEARS LATER the game is in 1953 ia not joking the war is still going we're slowly making gains but russia is 53 MILLION casualties in, still has a estimated 8 MILLION troops in the field and a estimated 14 MILLION manpower they can still add to their army like how the hell does that compute? paradox really went too far with that "infinite soviet manpower meme" didnt they? in ww2 the soviets took 20 million casualties and at the end of the war they had 8 million still in the field, because thats the most they could do, the russians too were starting to be crtitically low on manpower by 1945 but paradox went: 3-4 times as much manpower as they actually had goes BRRRRR like comeon what is this?

[Aux|DecendedDemon]

oh i forgot to mention btw: their recruitment law isnt even on scrapping the barrel yet

[|H|H| Fr3ddi3]

You cannot actually bleed a country dry of manpower, you can bring it to it's knees and force it's fielded divisions to fight under strength, but each month they will get manpower and it will be put into the field ... you cannot reduce a country to 0 manpower forever.

This is not a Russia meme, all countries have the same thing going for them, but naturally Russia being one of the largest countries you'll notice it more ... if you try and genocide them without pressing home the advantage.

The reason is very simple.

Every single state in the game gives civilian population every month, civilian population cannot be targeted, manpower drawn from it is NOT subtracted, and no one dies of old age ... thus population only ever goes up ... forever.

Manpower is also given each month, and is a % of the civilian population, that too also goes up forever.

[firestar587]

im personally going to call BS on the 53m lose number, i suspect you are looking at faction loses not just the soviets.
also even assmuing that is entirely their losses, you are missing a few critical somethings
1. manpower growth exists, over 10 years that could easily add a few million.
2. you are claiming incorrect histroy, the soviets in fact had 11.5m in the field at the end of WW2 and likely MANY, MANY, MANY more to pull on with ~200m people at the start of the war and ~170m by the end of it, lets say 20% of those 170m are pulled on. thats 34 million, but wait the soviet AI always goes down socialst secience and takes women in the work force, adding 6%, bringing it 44.2m able to be fielded in 1945, assmuing the population loss, but wait, that wouldn't have happened in hoi4, so we should be using the 200m number, which gives 52m

tho 75m is slightly higher then expected (i would guess closer to 60m) it is more then reasonable, and most def not 3-4 times. it would make even more sense if the soviets took over land, or were abusing puppets for manpower, or both.

[Shortpower]

Originally posted by |H|H| Fr3ddi3:

You cannot actually bleed a country dry of manpower, you can bring it to it's knees and force it's fielded divisions to fight under strength, but each month they will get manpower and it will be put into the field ... you cannot reduce a country to 0 manpower forever.

This is not a Russia meme, all countries have the same thing going for them, but naturally Russia being one of the largest countries you'll notice it more ... if you try and genocide them without pressing home the advantage.

The reason is very simple.

Every single state in the game gives civilian population every month, civilian population cannot be targeted, manpower drawn from it is NOT subtracted, and no one dies of old age ... thus population only ever goes up ... forever.

Manpower is also given each month, and is a % of the civilian population, that too also goes up forever.

.125% per month iirc
(1/1/36 population) 161 million * .00125 is only 200k monthly civilian pop even at 20% that's only 40k new soldiers.
Though obviously that'd compounded so I think by 1953 USSR should be at 207 million~

[firestar587]

Originally posted by Shortpower:

Originally posted by |H|H| Fr3ddi3:

You cannot actually bleed a country dry of manpower, you can bring it to it's knees and force it's fielded divisions to fight under strength, but each month they will get manpower and it will be put into the field ... you cannot reduce a country to 0 manpower forever.

This is not a Russia meme, all countries have the same thing going for them, but naturally Russia being one of the largest countries you'll notice it more ... if you try and genocide them without pressing home the advantage.

The reason is very simple.

Every single state in the game gives civilian population every month, civilian population cannot be targeted, manpower drawn from it is NOT subtracted, and no one dies of old age ... thus population only ever goes up ... forever.

Manpower is also given each month, and is a % of the civilian population, that too also goes up forever.

.125% per month iirc
161 million * .00125 is only 200k monthly civilian pop even at 20% that's only 40k new soldiers.

over a decade tho thats 4.8 million troops, and its even slightly more due the fact it would be 26% not 20%

[Shortpower]

Originally posted by firestar587:

Originally posted by Shortpower:

.125% per month iirc
161 million * .00125 is only 200k monthly civilian pop even at 20% that's only 40k new soldiers.

over a decade tho thats 4.8 million troops, and its even slightly more due the fact it would be 26% not 20%

A bit more than that, I had edited it while you were responding.
January of '53 for example should generate nearlu 260k civilian pop instead of 200k
.26 of 161 is 42~
.26 of 207 is 54~
So roughly 12 million troops gained 1936-1953 at 26% recruitment

[Aux|DecendedDemon]

nope

Originally posted by firestar587:

im personally going to call BS on the 53m lose number, i suspect you are looking at faction loses not just the soviets.
also even assmuing that is entirely their losses, you are missing a few critical somethings
1. manpower growth exists, over 10 years that could easily add a few million.
2. you are claiming incorrect histroy, the soviets in fact had 11.5m in the field at the end of WW2 and likely MANY, MANY, MANY more to pull on with ~200m people at the start of the war and ~170m by the end of it, lets say 20% of those 170m are pulled on. thats 34 million, but wait the soviet AI always goes down socialst secience and takes women in the work force, adding 6%, bringing it 44.2m able to be fielded in 1945, assmuing the population loss, but wait, that wouldn't have happened in hoi4, so we should be using the 200m number, which gives 52m

tho 75m is slightly higher then expected (i would guess closer to 60m) it is more then reasonable, and most def not 3-4 times. it would make even more sense if the soviets took over land, or were abusing puppets for manpower, or both.

nope war just ended finally commitern sufferd 70 million total casualties, 59 million of them were russians

edit, also you cant draw everything you have into the militairy the 30 million or so the soviets pressed into surface is far as they could go not much more as a general rule of thumb in a war, if you civillian sector loses more then 30% of its population unless you have a HUGEEEEE population, like in a modern war india or china can lose way more then% by either being killed or pressed into service it starts to completely collapse in on itself if russia lost much more then they did in our timeline in WW2 industry would fall flat and people would start starving

[firestar587]

Originally posted by RVaux|DecendedDemon:

nope

Originally posted by firestar587:

im personally going to call BS on the 53m lose number, i suspect you are looking at faction loses not just the soviets.
also even assmuing that is entirely their losses, you are missing a few critical somethings
1. manpower growth exists, over 10 years that could easily add a few million.
2. you are claiming incorrect histroy, the soviets in fact had 11.5m in the field at the end of WW2 and likely MANY, MANY, MANY more to pull on with ~200m people at the start of the war and ~170m by the end of it, lets say 20% of those 170m are pulled on. thats 34 million, but wait the soviet AI always goes down socialst secience and takes women in the work force, adding 6%, bringing it 44.2m able to be fielded in 1945, assmuing the population loss, but wait, that wouldn't have happened in hoi4, so we should be using the 200m number, which gives 52m

tho 75m is slightly higher then expected (i would guess closer to 60m) it is more then reasonable, and most def not 3-4 times. it would make even more sense if the soviets took over land, or were abusing puppets for manpower, or both.

nope war just ended finally commitern sufferd 70 million total casualties, 59 million of them were russians

edit, also you cant draw everything you have into the militairy the 30 million or so the soviets pressed into surface is far as they could go not much more as a general rule of thumb in a war, if you civillian sector loses more then 30% of its population unless you have a HUGEEEEE population, like in a modern war india or china can lose way more then% by either being killed or pressed into service it starts to completely collapse in on itself if russia lost much more then they did in our timeline in WW2 industry would fall flat and people would start starving

you are right, but thats not modeled in hoi4, also pulling 20%-30% of a population into a war isn't that insane, sure it would cause problems but it wouldn't cripple a nation, even more so one that didn't care about its people.

i would also like to point you to the 30 MILLION deaths the soviets suffered IRL, in fact the loses your soviets faced were less per year the IRL soviets did, so it does make sense they could keep fighting

[EmTee]

Because it's Russia wtf did you expect