Why bother fighting China as Japan?

[Malenthas]

Why fight China if you are Japan?

The entire country has minimal resources.

I've been considering a Japan playthrough where I am friendly to China and just concentrate on the resource rich areas like Singapore, East Indies, India, etc.

Any reason why Japan needs to take China?

[AdmiralPiett]

Originally posted by Iskander:

Originally posted by AdmiralPiett:

And what we're saying is not everything has to have some mechanic-grounded meta gaming reason to happen.

This is how meta gaming attitudes like yours are ruining this genre

I think what is ruining the genre, is people like you, who can only answer normal questions with hostility and ridicule.

Where's the hostility and ridicule? No insults have been flung. It's a valid point. The division meta got so bad the DEVs had to step in.

[Citizen X]

I would like to answer your question from a Strategic standpoint. I have not played Japan seriously before, but I have significant amounts of hours in this game, as well as some minor reading.

Youve said that you made the decision to focus your efforts instead on the nations with more resources, and have chosen to Ally with China. I think this is one of the best decisions you could have made. China can always be dealt with LAST, once everything else has taken care of. If you arent going to fight them, might as well bring them into your faction.

An alliance here with Siam will help complete your supply lines later, and you will be able to reach Malaysia by land without, worrying about Convoy Raiding. Saving all your forces till 1940, I would declare war against the United Kingdom while it has all its attention on saving France in Europe. Take everything you possibly can in your opening move.

1. Secure the resources
2. Secure the Route of Resources -> Mainland
3. Build Major defenses and upgrade the infrastructure from Mainland -> Resources

Im not sure what I would do about Burma and India, likely the best course is to do nothing and only defend the border. My next move would be to shift all my weight toward USSR and invade alongside Germany. No war in China means the majority of your forces are free for the campaign. There are lots of good resources very close to the border with Manchuria, so Japan does not need to go far.

Navy defends your possessions in the South, maybe help with naval invasions against USSR coastlines.

USA will join Allies unprovoked because its a game. But, if you dont provoke them, I think it takes them till mid-1942, or something.

At this point, you should occupy Major resources deposits in the North and South, with a Chinese Ally in your rear. That should be a good footing to fight against USA in the Pacific.

[Citizen X]

Originally posted by zil:

and when playing as italy, i think sometimes, why conquer yugoslavia?
because then if i win i have a border with romania, and if romania allows soviets to access their territory which often happens, then i get invaded by soviets passing through romania.
so its better to have a buffer in between italy and soviets if playing as italy.
depends on the political situation in romania whether or not italy invades yugoslavia.

When playing Italy, take the Focus "Potential Allies in the Balkans". This will give Italy access to a new set of decisions; one of these decisions is titled "Claim the Throne of Montenegro". If successful, Italy will Annex Montenegro, the only province in Yugoslavia with resources anyways. Invite Yugoslavia to your faction

For Romania; after a successful invasion, you can release an Independent nation of Moldova in the Peace Conference, and give this new Independent State all of Bassarabia that Soviet Union wants. Independent Moldova will be taken by Soviet Union without war from anyone.

[bisp]

Originally posted by AdmiralPiett:

Originally posted by Iskander:

I think what is ruining the genre, is people like you, who can only answer normal questions with hostility and ridicule.

Where's the hostility and ridicule? No insults have been flung. It's a valid point. The division meta got so bad the DEVs had to step in.

OP asked a valid question. The reasoning behind Japan invading China IRL wasn’t based on good strategy. There’s not that much to be gained from invading China right away. This isn’t some “meta” thing that you’re circlejerking about. It’s a person trying to get more knowledge and you’re being a snobbish weirdo.

[AdmiralPiett]

Originally posted by bisp:

Originally posted by AdmiralPiett:

Where's the hostility and ridicule? No insults have been flung. It's a valid point. The division meta got so bad the DEVs had to step in.

OP asked a valid question. The reasoning behind Japan invading China IRL wasn’t based on good strategy. There’s not that much to be gained from invading China right away. This isn’t some “meta” thing that you’re circlejerking about. It’s a person trying to get more knowledge and you’re being a snobbish weirdo.

And Zil and I gave a valid answer: historical ideological reasons. OP DID NOT ACCEPT that answer and instead is still looking for some "mechanic-based" reason to invade China

[Viceroy Günther von Lichler]

There are 3 main game play reasons why attacking China as early as possible is worth it.

1: Its easy. Theres nothing difficult to fight in China, its just a slog and you aren't ready to fight any real threats anyway so why not.

2: Army experience, all that constant fighting will bring with it a crazy amount of army experience which you can use to max out your chosen army tech tree, make division templates and etc. All at a extremely favorably ratio as they will be attacking into fights they cannot possible win until the heat death of the universe, while you will take favorable engagements only.

3: It gives you more useful fronts against the USSR and India and places to build air bases to attack allied ships from.

[Oliver Queen]

You are supposed to use mostly reserve divisions against China while one army with elite divisions pushes for victory points. Not invading china as japan is very boring.

[milky D]

I'll give you a real reason.
You should, as Japan, take over China because it presents a challenge and you may find it fun.

[Biggs]

Originally posted by milky D:

I'll give you a real reason.
You should, as Japan, take over China because it presents a challenge and you may find it fun.

true, it is game, play how you want depending on mood at the time.
once in while try new tactics, study in detail the tiny notifications and features for stats,
and perfect ur war machine over and over again, various tactics.
dont always to same thing.)

[Biggs]

Originally posted by AdmiralPiett:

Originally posted by bisp:

OP asked a valid question. The reasoning behind Japan invading China IRL wasn’t based on good strategy. There’s not that much to be gained from invading China right away. This isn’t some “meta” thing that you’re circlejerking about. It’s a person trying to get more knowledge and you’re being a snobbish weirdo.

And Zil and I gave a valid answer: historical ideological reasons. OP DID NOT ACCEPT that answer and instead is still looking for some "mechanic-based" reason to invade China

thing about phenomenon of gamers overly using "meta builds" has more to do with personality than with a valid gaming philosophy. in this society of docility and fearful conformity and lack of actual life experiences or social bonds ... what else are unexperienced generations drowning in mass media going to be like?
they lost originality, lost their soul if ever had one, and became empty consumers tied with chains of conformity worries to the empty imitating of shallow tv/movie generecisms / forum posts / same phrases over and over/ and promoted archetypes/stereotypes,
in place of actual culture and personality and creativity.

And to such people the market brings games that test skills, one of which being creativity?
and the "metas users" try to get around that test by only doing what is already validated and approved by others, nullifying that part of the game, making the game into an exercise of imitation of rules and structure when it should be loose and somewhat wild and untamed.

They carry this policy unconsciously into all of their life, the way they walk down street, stand in a queue, talk, etc, and everything they say and do and mostly think will be generic. its not a culture, its not a gaming philosophy, its the death of culture and the death of gaming. it is a time when culture stops having LIFE in it, and when games stop being games. AND the weaker people get the more they will crave this approval from whoever or whatever force is perceived to have power, and we end up with feudalism of the few lords who have some personality rule over the faceless masses of consumer drones indistinguishable from each others in thought word and deed, if one or a million drops dead? its just a statistic. That is the future some people want.

Uniformity in society uniformity in gaming, when the basis of this uniformity defeats the purpose of gaming and even , dare i say, of LIFE itself.

They wont even comprehend my post. If they reply it will probably be a validation seeking genericism with an angle of normalizing cynical passive aggressive bullying,
"bruh" "it is what it is" some other mental slop.

Why bother? they are stuck like that.
Save yourself from this "society" if you know its going down.
Big world out there who think different.

[AdmiralPiett]

Originally posted by zil:

Originally posted by AdmiralPiett:

And Zil and I gave a valid answer: historical ideological reasons. OP DID NOT ACCEPT that answer and instead is still looking for some "mechanic-based" reason to invade China

thing about phenomenon of gamers overly using "meta builds" has more to do with personality than with a valid gaming philosophy. in this society of docility and fearful conformity and lack of actual life experiences or social bonds ... what else are unexperienced generations drowning in mass media going to be like?
they lost originality, lost their soul if ever had one, and became empty consumers tied with chains of conformity worries to the empty imitating of shallow tv/movie generecisms / forum posts / same phrases over and over/ and promoted archetypes/stereotypes,
in place of actual culture and personality and creativity.

And to such people the market brings games that test skills, one of which being creativity?
and the "metas users" try to get around that test by only doing what is already validated and approved by others, nullifying that part of the game, making the game into an exercise of imitation of rules and structure when it should be loose and somewhat wild and untamed.

They carry this policy unconsciously into all of their life, the way they walk down street, stand in a queue, talk, etc, and everything they say and do and mostly think will be generic. its not a culture, its not a gaming philosophy, its the death of culture and the death of gaming. it is a time when culture stops having LIFE in it, and when games stop being games. AND the weaker people get the more they will crave this approval from whoever or whatever force is perceived to have power, and we end up with feudalism of the few lords who have some personality rule over the faceless masses of consumer drones indistinguishable from each others in thought word and deed, if one or a million drops dead? its just a statistic. That is the future some people want.

Uniformity in society uniformity in gaming, when the basis of this uniformity defeats the purpose of gaming and even , dare i say, of LIFE itself.

They wont even comprehend my post. If they reply it will probably be a validation seeking genericism with an angle of normalizing cynical passive aggressive bullying,
"bruh" "it is what it is" some other mental slop.

Why bother? they are stuck like that.
Save yourself from this "society" if you know its going down.
Big world out there who think different.

+1

[Bishop-Six]

China will continue sabotaging Japanese assets all the time and even force you to leave the continent or go to war.

i did several Japan playthroughs where i wanted to focus on others and China really wants it.

But when you are already in the 40s you can just go in with your tank army if you have one and roll over.

[ZamboTeam67]

Problem hoi4 is not just a ww2 sim there is alt paths and they should lean more into it while not making them all trash. Its a game at first and sim 2nd so having people wait 4 years just to reach 60 factories on minors who go historical is funny and legit just crippling for being "historic".

[Queen Craw]

Originally posted by Bishop-Six:

China will continue sabotaging Japanese assets all the time and even force you to leave the continent or go to war.

i did several Japan playthroughs where i wanted to focus on others and China really wants it.

But when you are already in the 40s you can just go in with your tank army if you have one and roll over.

I had a game where I tried just leaving them be and the asset sabotage was so bloody annoying. It just felt like a constant game of whack a mole and by the time I finally had enough of that nonsense China and I were deep in a ridiculous arms race and build up on our shared border. I super regretted leaving them be.

[JDouglasBarson]

The Chinese warlords in the game stockpile vast amounts of equipment. China doesn't run out of equipment any more. I always get around 40k-70k of equipment including artillery. I always get Field Marshalls/Generals to skill 7 which is a big advantage in the game. Then getting the extra ports on the coast helps with navy supply. The extra building slots, because Japan doesn't have enough building slots. That's about it for goodies for conquering China.