support companies in armored divisions

[seashell]

i don't understand why people would use support artillery, yeah, it's cost efficient soft attack, but i thought if we are building armored we should use something better to fill that slot.
same for support aa.

[DC Zhor]

I don't. The support companies I use for armor are maintenance, logistics, field hospital and the like. Depends on the country what support is best. But if I'm to use artillery, I rather use line artillery.

Though I cannot speak for anyone else besides me.

[seashell]

Originally posted by DC Zhor:

I don't. The support companies I use for armor are maintenance, logistics, field hospital and the like. Depends on the country what support is best. But if I'm to use artillery, I rather use line artillery.

Though I cannot speak for anyone else besides me.

after some questioning i understood that spg is bad because the supply use is atrocious, and 3 combat width reduces the soft attack per combat width.
so a 40 soft attack tank is equivalent to a 60 soft attack spg.

[drewbstar]

Not all countries have the exp/industry/etc to field optimal divisions. Adding support arty or support AA is faster, cheaper, and easier as it doesn’t require additional research, production lines, and so on.

[DC Zhor]

Yeah, SPGs are for USA, USSR and USSA. Y'know, countries with extremely large industrial bases. You're showing off at that point.

Personally I always use mechanized. They're extremely useful, cheap enough and always an answer against the AI. Put some AA support on them and go forth.

[Mack]

Maintenance & Field Hospital are bad on armour because it makes their combat stats worse. Maintenance is also bad because it's pointless if you're building your tanks with easy maintenance and you shouldn't need equipment capture if you've built a proper industry.

The best support companies for Armour are:
Armour Recon
Medium Flame
Logistics
Engineer
Artillery or Rockets.

The only one I would ever consider replacing is swapping out Logistics for Military Police but doing that would significantly increase the supply burden the armour unit has. If you're using a big stack of tanks it can make it really hard to properly supply them.

10 factories on SPGs, 5 on Flame Tanks, 5 on Light Tanks and 40 on Medium Tanks should be enough to make a big pile of tanks. If you're fighting in a smaller region you could do the job with half that.

[Bored Peon]

People really ignore Signal for the initiative bonus?

Initiative is a stat in Hearts of Iron IV (HOI4) that determines which side gets to act first in a battle1. To determine Initiative, the leading generals' skill levels are compared. If either side has a higher recon value in one of their divisions (including reserves), it gets a bonus of 5 skill levels for this comparison. The side with the higher effective skill level gets Initiative, with ties favoring the defender1. Initiative slightly increases the speed of battle planning, reinforcement rate, and coordination, but coordination is the most important stat2.

Any offensive unit should have a Signal support, just for the reinforcement bonus. Defending not so much because you may not have divisions in reserve while defending.

[Včelí medvídek]

There is nto any better alternative to art as support

Only Rocket and than it is even good to consider both.

As for SPG (that is not support variant] vs tank - this in general go down if you need more additional breakthrough or soft attack in your armored divsion. vs AI the SPG is almsot always better as breakthrough is sufrficient.

Also the usual approach for it is cost-efficicency as it need less IC per division. The usual strategy is refit light tanks as L-SPART at time you make transition to medium tanks which is superb production wise. Especially if you have designer

Something like this is crazy good for soft attack and IC cost
https://www.reddit.com/r/hoi4/comments/18yucrj/yo_imma_let_you_finish_discussing_artillery_but/

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by Včelí medvídek:

Also the usual approach for it is cost-efficicency as it need less IC per division.

Well if you boil it down to IC......
...which is better on IC after it is built?

Signal support is not really quantified because the IC savings it creates are sorta hidden.
- The difference in reinforcement rate determines how quickly you fill a gap in the frontline. Which while there is a gap the other units are taking all the damage,
- The extra coordination makes a difference as you damage is focused on making and enemy withdraw (which puts them in the situation above) and reduces the damage your divisions are taking.

While the "saving" may be minor think about how it would add up over 50 or 100 battles.

Now can you say the same for that little bit of extra damage from a support?Especially if the defender has a high defense and simply blocks the damage.

I dunno, would definitely have to do some spreadsheet type reports for a bunch of battles with each to see exactly how much difference is made. All I know is when I use Signal Supports my offense seems to go a lot smoother.

Also keep in mind that Special Forces doctrines allow Signal Support to buff any non-support artillery in the division.

[Mack]

In a regular SP game, signals don't do enough to make them bother with using if your tank designs & the tank unit design are good enough. They'll be aimed up against infantry and if you select a good target (eg favourable terrain, not fighting over a river) and if you have air support, the benefit from signals is marginal compared to the 6 more impactful support companies (the 5 I listed above + MilPol).

My TL;DR, if you're fighting a battle where signals would make a difference, you aren't picking the right target and shouldn't be pushing there. You want to be targeting weak infantry units on plains, in order to push forward into the enemy backline so you can create encirclements by a pincer or pushing to a neutral border or coast tile.

As for the light tank SPG, in the early war period you don't need it, you will slice through them with basic light tanks in a basic 5/5 tank division as long as you aren't being overwhelmed by air. So you might as well just progress through to mediums for the main force, and once you research early war light tank you build it build it around being a recon tank (no radio, two man turret, cheap gun, fuel tanks & dozers to provide extra fuel)

[Včelí medvídek]

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

Originally posted by Včelí medvídek:

Also the usual approach for it is cost-efficicency as it need less IC per division.

Well if you boil it down to IC......
...which is better on IC after it is built?

Oh well, I was talking about SPG in this.

The Signal - I personaly do not use it, but is more due I see priority in other support choices than I would see signal as bad. Though as you said above "just for the reinforcement bonus. " - I agree but at same time I dare to argue reinforce bonus is more defensive stat. Especially if you have many infantry divisions that rotate in defensive here is where you want to reinforce in no time - taht is the scenario where it shine.

My tank divisions are few in numbers usually not even more than 1-2 attack in tile and the situation it utilize reinforce mid combat is very rare, reinforce and signal has low priority for attack/armored due this. (especially if you micro your attacks and encirclements). If something it is the planning bonus that gives tanks initial edge - but the planning speed is not my priority either. Simply do small encirclements and wait a bit longer for full planning prior continue.. again this go more if you let AI use it in constant attacks or you control it more yourself.