New Greek Focus Tree Byzantine Contradictions

[A6M Zero]

Basically, the bottom left of the new Greek focus tree has some odd contradictions. It starts with the choice between "Horror and Glory" and "The Gordian Knot", which are mutually exclusive choices on how to fight Turkey; the former is doing it solo, the latter is with the support of a coalition.

This then leads to 2 more choices. "Nenikikamen" can be chosen with either of the two above, and describes the triumph of Venizelos's Megali Idea and unlocks the decision to create Greater Greece.

The problems begin with the other, "Reviving the Double-Headed Eagle", which can only be chosen if you went with "Horror and Glory", but can be taken alongside "Nenikikamen" if you did. This describes the cowardice of Venizelos and unlocks the decision to create Byzantium.

Aside from the fairly contradictory flavour texts, it's simply a case of offering you the choice which to create.....until you notice that, unlike the entire branch of the focus tree leading up to it, requires Fascism. This is the same tree that has you replace autocracy with a Constitutional Monarchy, has focuses boosting support for Democracy and has diplomatic modifiers called "Democratic Leanings" that boost your Anglo-French relations and piss off Germany and Italy. Moreover, two focuses down there is a focus that unlocks decisions restoring more of the Byzantine Empire that requires you to have taken both "Reviving the Double-Headed Eagle" and "Nenikikamen".

TL;DR - The Democratic tree with democratic bonuses and starts with "Bring Home the Exiled Republicans" ends with focuses requiring Fascist government and taking Focuses that directly contradict each other.

[Shepard-Commander]

Yeah, I've been playing Greece and I don't really understand what they were thinking with how they implemented the Byzantine restoration. In my opinion, it's a gamebreaking mistake on the dev's part that has ruined two attempted Greece playthroughs. You get to the Megali Conference and the direction it goes seems to be completely out of your hands. So, if you purposely are trying to get them to reject Megali, you can't. Even if you vote against Britain and France's proposals, Megali will still be approved (assuming you rejected Fascism earlier). Thus, there doesn't seem option to take a democratic approach to achieve the restoration. In reality, the Byzantine restoration would seem to make a lot more sense in some kind of a monarchist branch rather than off of the democratic one.

[Darrenb209]

The point of the Byzantine restoration being where it is and requiring what it does is quite simple, you need to welcome the fascists into a coalition, then when the megali conference fails, after a while an event will trigger giving you the option to swap to fascism, implying that Democracy failed Greece. As for why it's there and not under Monarchism? It's implied to be a heavily propagandised piece of bull, really. Similar to Mussolini's "We're really a Roman Empire, everybody!?" Rather than an actually true thing.

[A6M Zero]

Originally posted by Darrenb209:

The point of the Byzantine restoration being where it is and requiring what it does is quite simple, you need to welcome the fascists into a coalition, then when the megali conference fails, after a while an event will trigger giving you the option to swap to fascism, implying that Democracy failed Greece. As for why it's there and not under Monarchism? It's implied to be a heavily propagandised piece of bull, really. Similar to Mussolini's "We're really a Roman Empire, everybody!?" Rather than an actually true thing.

The thing is that, as mentioned above, the Megali conference requires actual effort to fail, and sabotaging your own search for allies makes no sense whatsoever. Moreover, there is a whole focus branch dedicated to fascism, which doesn't allow forming Byzantium.

So as it is, to form Byzantium you need to be fascist, but instead of following the fascist tree you have to follow the democratic tree, sabotage the Megali conference and then switch to fascism. It's frankly just silly.

[Darrenb209]

Except the Megali Conference does not actually need effort to fail. You see, if you take the coalition with the EEE and then invite only Britain and France, nobody shows up! So it auto-fails and then a few weeks to a few months later an event triggers where you get the option to swap to Fascism. So you don't need to sabotage it, just making the choice to go Fascist inherently takes you on the route to Byzantium.

[Darrenb209]

Ultimately, you're given a lore based choice. Take on the fascists into your government or don't. That singular choice decides whether you can walk the route that it expects you to take towards reforming the ERE.

[A6M Zero]

Originally posted by Darrenb209:

Ultimately, you're given a lore based choice. Take on the fascists into your government or don't. That singular choice decides whether you can walk the route that it expects you to take towards reforming the ERE.

Except that's not the choice. The choice is to take democracy or autocracy, at which point you have to choose democracy and then later backtrack and choose autocracy.

[Darrenb209]

Except it's not. The choice at the start is to choose between Republicanism and Monarchism, not Democracy and Autocracy.

The Fascism that follows Monarchism is an internationalist Fascism that ends up Pro-Axis. They stem from the choices the Monarch makes to keep power and so are in his route.

The Fascism that follows the Republican path is a separate Fascism, a separate party in fact with separate goals. This stems solely from the first action of Venizelos' party, stirring emotion around Anatolia. This directly leads to the Anatolian Greeks forming a Fascist party but they would still end up being nothing, a party to be either suborned or crushed if it wasn't for a choice that the Party in charge can make to invite them into government.

The reason it's under the "Democratic" path rather than the Monarchist Path is that it comes about as a direct action that they take only in that route. The Greek Nazi's were against the Megali Idea and Pro-Hitler, it could not come about without stirring Anatolian sentiment, which is also something the Monarch was against.

Venizelos, on the other hand, was Pro-Megali and so he would stir the sentiment.

Or in short, it is where it is because it's the only place it could be.

[Sarged]

Not going to lie the Byzantine achievement is not hard anymore, its's actually stupid easy now. I used the starting 13 divisions and conquered Turkey with them. As stated allow the EEE into your government and allow them to coup you peacfully then immediately ask Germany to Join their faction, it will keep Italy friendly with you and you are set just research and build infastructure until they are about to do the focus which they get guaranteed by Germany, by then Europe should be in axis control and the war in africa should be going in the favor of the axis then do your Horror and Glory focus and the Italians and Germans will send some planes and ships down to your ports and then you just wait at the river when the war starts let the Turks burn their supply out and you then kill them.

[Johnny 5]

How do you form Greater Greece? I have all the land but no event or clicky thing

[Länsmansjävel]

Originally posted by Johnny 5:

How do you form Greater Greece? I have all the land but no event or clicky thing

It's a under the decision tab after you complete the Nenikikamen focus. You'll get cores on western Turkey, Cyprus and northern Epirus. You won't get cores on Istanbul/Constantinople though, which is weird because you'll be able to make it your capital