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Germany and Italy aren’t realistically crossing the Atlantic to land in South America to marginally reduce the Allies resources. The only realistic option on that front is Japan invading and holding the Pacific, by which point the game’s balance will likely have been decided.
Your best strategy for taking out the Allies is avoid attritional warfare in the first place. Taking over their rubber plantations doesn’t delete their existing stockpiles of Fighters. While it is fundamentally good to deplete your enemy and deny them options, you can’t rely on it to carry your strategy. It makes far more sense for the Axis to fight the enemy where they are i.e the British Isles rather than invading a far off land with a handful of resources.
The only time I’ve seen resource depletion really work is when spamming subs around an island. It worked for me when attacking the UK and Japan, but that’s because they’re dependant on convoys delivering the resources, only really worked for fuel, and doesn’t involve actually naval invading the land with the resources itself.
***Edited For Clarity
Im not sure there is enough Chromium in South America for production after 1944. Chromium would still be split by the remaining allies, and any oversea imports would be vulnerable to Axis submarines
Crossing the Atlantic is something Ive never claimed to do. At no point would I consider crossing the Atlantic. Axis strategy here would be to switch to the operation defensive once the Allies have been kicked out of "Afro-Eurasia". There is nothing in America that the Axis need, therefore no reason to go
Avoiding Attritional war is actually what I am hoping to pitch here with this strategy. Using the Russo-Japanese war of 1904 as a model, the OPENING MOVE is to seize these resources, THEN Axis switches to the defensive, and forces the Allies to take them back. Axis no longer HAS to do anything, because they have the resources.
Im not sure what "far off land" invasion you're referring too. Axis doesnt have to launch any naval invasions, because all the major resource nodes are on land that Axis can walk too. This is why I think the strategy is sensible; United States is the one who has to cross the Atlantic to reach the Tungsten in Portugal, not Germany.
The plan is to trap United States in the Americas. And then maybe we can use the Submarines like you mentioned to destroy any trade thats still taking place. Submarine 4 requires Chromium. Axis will be able to produce Submarines AND Carriers, AND Modern tanks, while there may only be enough Chromium in America for all of the Allies to produce 2 of these
Barbarossa becomes not much more than a hostile corporate takeover by that point and then it's on to Japan and China. Eating Italy is an option at any point but doing it after Jugoslavia and before France can make Sealion way easier.
Your plan however might make for a fun alternative game, if you want to give it a run go ahead and let us know how it went.
Thank you very much for the response. Years ago, I used to have a strategy very similiar to what you say, but for Italy.
I would defeat France before France joined the Allies in October 1937. This gave Italy huge power without any consequence, and the rest of the game was very easy. This a great plan for Axis players to use against in the AI when they are doing World Conquest runs.
Nowadays, I try to restrain myself too much from ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on the AI. Germany can invade United Kingdom no problem, BUT honestly I think thats because Hearts of Iron is a game, and the AI in this game is very bad. Historically, Germany could NOT have completely an Operation Sealion in real-life. For this reason, I restrain myself from doing so.
Im hoping here I can develop a strategy that would be good enough to use against enemy players in a historical multiplayer setting.
As Italy, the netherlands is so much easier to take, less than 6 months into the game I had them capitulated and the war in ethiopia over before its leader boards the train out of there. Puppetted ethiopia so i can ignore it the whole game, Next believe it or not I invaded the UK itself. It was quite easy hopping over from the netherlands core and I had almost everything in my navy in the english channel. After that I took spain. This was all finished before france and uk could team up and even before germany danzigs poland. After that all was left to take was France and I scored them by myself as italy. Naval invasions are very strong and italy can have its cap increased quite early so you can literally naval invade an entire coastline with them before ww2 even started.
Germany, this is an interesting one. On my own I tend to danzig poland a year ahead of historical. This makes buildup so much easier and spreads out the garrison requirements of having so much resistant territory. Civilian oversight all the way baby! Basically Germany just takes as much land as possible through focuses and If I had buddies playing italy and japan the way i do, allies would be a thing of history by 1939 and russia would be in our crosshairs.
Thank you for the response. There is alot of good knowledge and skill in here.
Me and you are 90% on the same page. Germany Italy and Japan score big wins against the Allies in the Europe and South East Asia. And then the focus turns to Soviet Union. Thats exactly what im picturing in my head.
As for Naval invading Indonesia and Netherlands, Im not sure thats something I can get myself to do. Yes it works in-game, but I dont think that would work in real-life. United Kingdom would certainly not allow Italy to invade Netherlands without consequence, and then also allow Italy to put its Navy in Dutch Ports. The game is not perfectly made, so i try to meet it half way and restrain myself.
On the same topic though, I think Italy and Japan working close together would be great. They can fight the Royal Navy simultaneously and they jointly invade India. Italy can take possessions in the Indian Ocean, like Sri Lanka, while Japan takes Malaysia. Striking at the same time will spread the Royal Navy and increase the chances of success in the water for both nations.
We can definitely get everything done before 1942. Before Pearl Harbor. Japan wont even need to launch Pearl Harbor because Victory is achieved
1 justify on belgium at day one while setting lines for: equipment, support equipment, artillery, naval bombers and fighters, delete all the others.
2 switch all army to infantry except 2 light tanks, let them train and modify the template to 35 width (3 artillery and the rest infantry + support engineers), create 8 extra inf divisions.
3 when justificatio fo belgium is ready (250 days) declare war, tension should be around 10-15 but france will intervene and join the allies with uk most of the time. put the 8 inf on the border with france just to defend while use all the others to invade belgium and france, both will capitulate fairly easily, after they do set 8 inf to land in the uk and 2 others to invade a different tiles. all the fighters, naval bomber and navy in the channel, after a couple weeks you should have supremacy, start the invasion and bring the rest of the army in britain.
you'll capitulate belgium + belgian congo, france + all the colonies and uk + commonwealth by start/mid 1937
Thanks for joining us.
On youtube, you can find Germany capitulate Allies in like April 1936, using Yugoslavia as a catalyst to start the war or something. I cant remember the fine details, but either way, cheesing the game into a victory like this is very common. I used to do it with Italy against France,
These days, im just not interested in strategies like that. Im hoping here we can make one that is a little more ground. For example, would this strategy work against France and United Kingdom if these nations were also controlled by players?
if you want to make it realistic, take belgian congo as mittleafrika, puppet belgium, take back alsace puppet france and uk, and leave all the other commonwealth nations alone (realistically beside belgium, france and uk who would be directly invaded the other commonwealth nation would just drop out with a with peace and maintain total independence)
Hmm... Belgium and France might be within grasp of Germany... but there is just no way Germany invades United Kingdom. German can get a lucky landing, but there is no way they supply 12 Divisions across the Channel. Does Germany take Norway still in this plan? What about the other alliances that exist at this time? Would Czechoslovakia and Poland declare war on Germany for this?
There could be some benefits to waiting as well. For example, spending time doing collaboration government missions in Poland and France will make occupation significantly more lucrative. It will also give Italy and Japan time to prepare for the big fight, which all 3 Axis nations can wage simultaneously against the United Kingdom for maximum effect.
Germany might be able to win a quick war against the allies in 1937. BUT, what if the Axis nations together could conquer the whole world at the same time, in 1940?
What if all the Allied Troops had been captured at Dunkirk? It's doubtful the USA would have gotten involved with the entire Army of France/England gone.
Here's a real easy springboard that works as Germany. For extra credit help Republican Spain (sieze the gold) AND send air volunteers to China. Any "old" plane/tank that you do not want : send it to china.
1. Start by making civilian factories. Queue up 10 cavalry units. When those finish Make regular infantry as supplies allow.
2. Save ~220 PP. Justify on Netherlands. Justify on Poland. Cancel Netherlands. Re-justify on Netherlands (this makes a "double war").
3. Defeat Poland quickly. Do not defeat Netherlands quickly (you need them to call in the puppet). Take main area of Indonesia take "middle" island but leave rest of land for puppet. Why not take it all? Japan will do Japan things later.
4. Annex Austria. Increase railroad infrastructure towards Italy.
5. Justify on Italy. Defeat Italy. Note: sweep west first so that when Mussolini is disposed he ends up with the bottom of the boot for the new puppet's lands. Why are we Backstabbing Italy? AI Italy is stupid and starts a war with the Allies because it almost never finishes Ethiopia on time.
You should be able to do all of the above before 1939 without Allied Intervention. In the next step you build up to fight Russia. Note that they are weaker if you attack them sooner because they have not finished purging.
1. Train Five generals with 24 troops each. Depending if you used one general exclusively and had them in the Spanish civil war they might be up to 30 troops so (24x4) + (30) is the best case scenario. Increase your main army up to a larger width.
2. Make actually good planes : see a video if that confuses you. The Russians will have about 2000 fighters. If you want to be lazy you can put AA support on your armies. Strong CAS is better than tanks.
3. Push into Russia until it gets tedious. Then push some more. Increase all railway lines to level 2 to pass the time. I play with la resistance off so it takes a lot longer.
Russia is dead - now what? Take Everything. If you are too lazy to defend the east cost you could create an "eastern seaboard" Russia puppet. You will need to give them regions that have manpower but no resources or they will never make troops (Some of the land near Finland might help to that end). There is now a decision path for you.
Option A):
If you beat Russia quickly and want to end all the "colonial" nations you can declare on England without the USA. Naval invasions on the North side of England are easier. You can make a 2 sea zone landing near Hull. Remember all the ITA/FRA/IND/NET/RUS ships you seized? Well you're going to use those instead of building a navy.
Your stolen navy with 0 ships created on your part will smash the UK navy. Take all of England and then the war will end after you defeat Spain. If India persists as a "major" then you need to declare on Iran and attack from there to get to India. It can be useful to declare on them with a 6th army while you are fighting the Russians to create a land bridge for the future.
This is the "best" path because you can now build railroads in Canada after defeating the Allies. After beating the USA keep pushing as far as you like into South America.
Option B): You beat Russia too slow and now the USA is part of the Allies. See that small strip of land in South America? Build naval bases. Build Railroads. Build a radar tower and an air base. Move your navy here after you defeat England. If Brazil has a guarantee on anyone you can abuse that to bring them into a war and take them out first. Otherwise we declare on Brazil, Then Venezuela, etc., until we get to mexico and finally the USA.
Notice: for all China plans you are going to need to do railroad work to prevent massive attrition.
Option C): You beat Russia too slow and USA is part of the Allies. It is possible Japan is still fighting China if you slowed them down enough. If that is the case why not jump in and attack Japan? Note: do not sign any non aggression agreements with anyone who sends one to you while "helping" china. If you defeat Japan's puppets and push them out of Korea then they will surrender. If Japan does not surrender then you have to move your navy and naval invade Japan (this should be no problem but is tedious - move it ahead of time just in case). After helping china - attack China.
Option D): You beat Russia too slow and USA is part of the Allies. You didn't save China so Japan now owns it. This is the worst timeline. Wait for Japan to attack the USA. Attack the Allies using the "brazil" plan.
Later on you'll have bases to either supply blockading vessels or as potential invasion routes in all the areas your plan requires them....
edit: just noticed a similar suggestion posted above whilst writing this :D
Ill start here, for fun. British Expeditionary force is some 400,000 men. The SECOND BEF is some 100,000 men. While Britain is busy using the majority of its ground forces attempting to save continental France, its colonies have been left bare. Same goes for the French.
Playing Italy, my working strategy right now, is to declare war on Allies alongside Germany in May 1940. But instead of pushing toward the Suez, I throw all my weight at French North Africa. I try and reach the Atlantic before France capitulates, and the land is given to Vichy France.
From here, I declare war on Spain, and take Spanish Africa. Boom; now the Suez is closed from the West, and Italy has barely fired a single shot. In my experince so far, Spain will NOT join Allies, but even if they do, I can only imagine United Kingdom sending a THIRD wasted Expeditionary force to Spain....
I have no intention of invading mainland Spain, and there is no Spanish resistence to worry about. Once I close the Straight, I set up defenses, and transfer all my weight toward Suez. Now, I can focus all my attention in the Eastern Med, without any worry of my backside. All 100% United Kingdom reinforcements for this entire battle will have to go around Africa.
Alt-Hist Italy strat
a more thoughtful reply unlike the troll replies:
its complicated
in theory resources could be bought from the soviets and venesuela and could be stocked up on so that there is years of supply of goods like rubber, oil, metal etc
the kriegsmarine needed 5 more years to complete the ship building program minimum,
if it had been given these 5 years then britian would have been cut off and forced out of the war
most of german army was not motorized and had to walk from germany to places like stalingrad very far away, used a lot of horses also,
in theory much more tanks and trucks was needed and to get this there should be trade and production and delay the start of the war as long as possible
moving into the rhineland should not of been done as fast as it was when there was no military force to protect germany strong enough
germany should of focused on trade and economy for a few more years longer to supply resources to the growing war machine
the new technologies rockets and jet engines could of been a total game changer,
as also the german technology of the advanced uboats which could fire and remain totally under water and invisible to sight
these technologies if mass produced would of won the war easily
but they are several years after the start of the war being invented
this is another reason to delay the start of the war so these new technologies can be perfected and produced in quantity
and because of the delay to start of war, avoid provokative actions like invading poland or changing power balance in europe too much, pretend friendship with the allies
and construct fortresses in the east in case the soviets invade
but maybe these ideas were not options back then, hindsight is great thing,
and poland and soviets and others were promising to invade germany before the war began and each had larger armies than germany
the war cannot be blamed on one country but it was inevitable
and was the inevitable clash of when empires face a upcoming challenger
What I see here is a very good and in-depth min-max guide for German world conquest. I think there is alot of great stuff in here, but this discussion is supposed to be focused around a combined Axis strategy, involving Japan and Italy alongside Germany.
I try to imagine if these scenarios would be possible if these nations were being played by humans of equal skill. Would Germany still be able to achieve all of this?