What's up with the AI?

[MultiFrαpsεr ツ]

I have recently started to notice, that the German AI or the whole axis just in general is really powerful compared to the allies and Comintern at the later stages of the game.
The allies keep trying to do D-Day and in various locations, but they always fail. USSR gets pushed back and always loses the major cities at one point or another. This makes it hard for me to enjoy "historical" games because they always become ridiculously weird despite having "Historical-AI" turned on and otherwise me following as closely to the nations historical path.

I do use road to 56 that may cause stuff like this, but I have noticed this just recently, maybe for the last two months or three? Before that Germany would've almost always lose the game eventually, as they did in real life too. Now it's all opposite. They even have done operation sea lion a few times to some point of success.

[mk11]

Without Allied support the USSR is doomed. The USA production is gimped so it cannot provide historical levels of support.

[CaptainSpacetime]

Who are you playing in this situation op?

From day 1 hoi4 has been balanced around a heavily heavily buffed axis because otherwise there's no game, USA wins always.

And the USSR did get pushed back and did lose major cities. Just like in real life they need help from the Allies or they lose.

Failing D-Day well, other posts constantly complain about how unfair and OP allied landings are, so a ymmv situation.

[MultiFrαpsεr ツ]

Originally posted by mk11:

Without Allied support the USSR is doomed. The USA production is gimped so it cannot provide historical levels of support.

That was the case historically as well, I guess... But oddly enough the allies really suck and they can't get anything done anymore. The game is extremely repeating at this point when you already know the axis will "win" although they will never get close enough to capitulate any of the enemy factions 🤔

[MultiFrαpsεr ツ]

Originally posted by CaptainSpacetime:

Who are you playing in this situation op?

From day 1 hoi4 has been balanced around a heavily heavily buffed axis because otherwise there's no game, USA wins always.

And the USSR did get pushed back and did lose major cities. Just like in real life they need help from the Allies or they lose.

Failing D-Day well, other posts constantly complain about how unfair and OP allied landings are, so a ymmv situation.

It doesn't really matter who I play as. I have tried USSR, Communist China, Finland and Sweden. Perhaps I should try to play as USA itself and see what kinda of impact I can have (I assume the results would be very different when I take control of the whole situation instead than the dumb AI)

You're right, USSR did lose major cities in their western front, but they never lost Moscow and Stalingrad fully. Neither did they lose Leningrad etc. Likely in the game they aren't receiving enough help from the allies and that leads to this messed up situation. The allied AI is so useless in my games that it ruins the play through kinda at this point.

I agree, the allied D-Days used to be brutal and utterly destroy Germany. But now they can't even hold one province for more than a few days and their landing sites are so random that it makes no sense 💀

[,;'"MonkeyDoodle"';,]

Originally posted by MultiFrαpsεr ツ:

Originally posted by CaptainSpacetime:

Who are you playing in this situation op?

From day 1 hoi4 has been balanced around a heavily heavily buffed axis because otherwise there's no game, USA wins always.

And the USSR did get pushed back and did lose major cities. Just like in real life they need help from the Allies or they lose.

Failing D-Day well, other posts constantly complain about how unfair and OP allied landings are, so a ymmv situation.

It doesn't really matter who I play as. I have tried USSR, Communist China, Finland and Sweden. Perhaps I should try to play as USA itself and see what kinda of impact I can have (I assume the results would be very different when I take control of the whole situation instead than the dumb AI)

You're right, USSR did lose major cities in their western front, but they never lost Moscow and Stalingrad fully. Neither did they lose Leningrad etc. Likely in the game they aren't receiving enough help from the allies and that leads to this messed up situation. The allied AI is so useless in my games that it ruins the play through kinda at this point.

I agree, the allied D-Days used to be brutal and utterly destroy Germany. But now they can't even hold one province for more than a few days and their landing sites are so random that it makes no sense 💀

Skill issue. I only play on Epic difficulty and I managed to grind Germany down in Polish territory in my current game as USSR. You need to learn the deeper mechanics of the game well in order to dominate the AI, not solely rely on research and production metas that are so often emphasised in the community.

USSR is strong due to the hordes of infantry that it can field. Build tons of basic infantry equipment and get your forces to 4-6 million strong. Upgrade your railways so that all western supply hubs are connected by level 3 rails; that way, you can field like 16+ armies on the single front with the Germans, having roughly 12 divisions per tile. This wall of flesh and steel it very powerful.

Due to me holding on and tying up the Germans, the UK and USA managed to invade and liberate Italy in mid 1942. My game isn't complete yet, but it's quite clear that the Germans are trending toward defeat.

[MultiFrαpsεr ツ]

Originally posted by MonkeyDoodle:

Originally posted by MultiFrαpsεr ツ:

It doesn't really matter who I play as. I have tried USSR, Communist China, Finland and Sweden. Perhaps I should try to play as USA itself and see what kinda of impact I can have (I assume the results would be very different when I take control of the whole situation instead than the dumb AI)

You're right, USSR did lose major cities in their western front, but they never lost Moscow and Stalingrad fully. Neither did they lose Leningrad etc. Likely in the game they aren't receiving enough help from the allies and that leads to this messed up situation. The allied AI is so useless in my games that it ruins the play through kinda at this point.

I agree, the allied D-Days used to be brutal and utterly destroy Germany. But now they can't even hold one province for more than a few days and their landing sites are so random that it makes no sense 💀

Skill issue. I only play on Epic difficulty and I managed to grind Germany down in Polish territory in my current game as USSR. You need to learn the deeper mechanics of the game well in order to dominate the AI, not solely rely on research and production metas that are so often emphasised in the community.

USSR is strong due to the hordes of infantry that it can field. Build tons of basic infantry equipment and get your forces to 4-6 million strong. Upgrade your railways so that all western supply hubs are connected by level 3 rails; that way, you can field like 16+ armies on the single front with the Germans, having roughly 12 divisions per tile. This wall of flesh and steel it very powerful.

Due to me holding on and tying up the Germans, the UK and USA managed to invade and liberate Italy in mid 1942. My game isn't complete yet, but it's quite clear that the Germans are trending toward defeat.

Did you even read what I wrote? I wasn't talking about myself but the AI. I have no problem in defeating Germany, but the AI does. I can not control what decisions the AI does (not without cheats of course but what fun would that be?)

You are right with the way USSR can get the thing done. The thing is that USSR is extremely powerful if everything is done correctly. All you pretty much do is focus on defence and tire out the enemy and then strike them back when they're at their lowest. But the AI doesn't understand this anymore unlike they did before during my gameplays which is odd and makes me think that something has changed the AI behavior dramatically.

You've managed to liberate Italy early in the game, but then again Italy is useless in every way possible, and I guess that's kinda historical lmao 😂

[Wagon Wheel]

There is no 'AI'. This is poor coding. With spaghetti coding piled on top..

[NaturalHypertrophy]

In my games Germany never reaches Moscow, the british do stupid sht like naval invading romania through the black sea (and it works XD), Italy randomly fractures into another government, and the allies at last do a naval invasion in France, but advance faster through the south in Italy. This all happens by 1943.

[CaptainSpacetime]

Originally posted by MultiFrαpsεr ツ:

Originally posted by CaptainSpacetime:

Who are you playing in this situation op?

From day 1 hoi4 has been balanced around a heavily heavily buffed axis because otherwise there's no game, USA wins always.

And the USSR did get pushed back and did lose major cities. Just like in real life they need help from the Allies or they lose.

Failing D-Day well, other posts constantly complain about how unfair and OP allied landings are, so a ymmv situation.

It doesn't really matter who I play as. I have tried USSR, Communist China, Finland and Sweden. Perhaps I should try to play as USA itself and see what kinda of impact I can have (I assume the results would be very different when I take control of the whole situation instead than the dumb AI)

You're right, USSR did lose major cities in their western front, but they never lost Moscow and Stalingrad fully. Neither did they lose Leningrad etc. Likely in the game they aren't receiving enough help from the allies and that leads to this messed up situation. The allied AI is so useless in my games that it ruins the play through kinda at this point.

I agree, the allied D-Days used to be brutal and utterly destroy Germany. But now they can't even hold one province for more than a few days and their landing sites are so random that it makes no sense 💀

What I'm not understanding is what you're doing when you're playing as USSR/China/Finland/Sweden.

Like are you losing against Germany as all of those?

Or are you not joining the fight against the Axis and just watching the Allies lose?

[MultiFrαpsεr ツ]

Originally posted by CaptainSpacetime:

Originally posted by MultiFrαpsεr ツ:

It doesn't really matter who I play as. I have tried USSR, Communist China, Finland and Sweden. Perhaps I should try to play as USA itself and see what kinda of impact I can have (I assume the results would be very different when I take control of the whole situation instead than the dumb AI)

You're right, USSR did lose major cities in their western front, but they never lost Moscow and Stalingrad fully. Neither did they lose Leningrad etc. Likely in the game they aren't receiving enough help from the allies and that leads to this messed up situation. The allied AI is so useless in my games that it ruins the play through kinda at this point.

I agree, the allied D-Days used to be brutal and utterly destroy Germany. But now they can't even hold one province for more than a few days and their landing sites are so random that it makes no sense 💀

What I'm not understanding is what you're doing when you're playing as USSR/China/Finland/Sweden.

Like are you losing against Germany as all of those?

Or are you not joining the fight against the Axis and just watching the Allies lose?

Well it depends. I really like to play historically the games so I tend to try and do that. In other words, build up my industry as USSR and fight against the axis, as (communist) China I try to form People's Republic of China that isn't even that hard, as Finland I try to hold off the USSR and as Sweden I actually like to go off-route. But that doesn't matter, as the point here was more about the AI and how they act so weirdly. I could play as Tannu Tuva and literally do nothing yet the AI doesn't know how it should play out historically. Last game I had Libya join Japan 💀

[,;'"MonkeyDoodle"';,]

Originally posted by MultiFrαpsεr ツ:

Originally posted by MonkeyDoodle:

Skill issue. I only play on Epic difficulty and I managed to grind Germany down in Polish territory in my current game as USSR. You need to learn the deeper mechanics of the game well in order to dominate the AI, not solely rely on research and production metas that are so often emphasised in the community.

USSR is strong due to the hordes of infantry that it can field. Build tons of basic infantry equipment and get your forces to 4-6 million strong. Upgrade your railways so that all western supply hubs are connected by level 3 rails; that way, you can field like 16+ armies on the single front with the Germans, having roughly 12 divisions per tile. This wall of flesh and steel it very powerful.

Due to me holding on and tying up the Germans, the UK and USA managed to invade and liberate Italy in mid 1942. My game isn't complete yet, but it's quite clear that the Germans are trending toward defeat.

Did you even read what I wrote? I wasn't talking about myself but the AI. I have no problem in defeating Germany, but the AI does. I can not control what decisions the AI does (not without cheats of course but what fun would that be?)

You are right with the way USSR can get the thing done. The thing is that USSR is extremely powerful if everything is done correctly. All you pretty much do is focus on defence and tire out the enemy and then strike them back when they're at their lowest. But the AI doesn't understand this anymore unlike they did before during my gameplays which is odd and makes me think that something has changed the AI behavior dramatically.

You've managed to liberate Italy early in the game, but then again Italy is useless in every way possible, and I guess that's kinda historical lmao 😂

As others have pointed out, it wasn't exactly clear what you mean't, especially since you mentioned having trouble while playing as the USSR, China, etc. You should carefully phrase your concerns to minimise confusion. In any case, you have to alter your play style so that you can accommodate the AI.

Playing as USSR? Hold on defensively and tire Germany out. Playing as UK? Strategically bomb Germany while securing Africa and the Mediterranean. Playing as USA? Lend-Lease as much equipment as possible to the Allies and the Comintern and do as the UK does above. The USSR AI needs help from the Allies by way of strategically pressuring Germany, otherwise it's doomed -- which is historical.

[Bored Peon]

The failed naval invasions has nothing to do with the Allies, it is all upon the AI.
The AI will make like 100 naval invasions and they fail, unless the defender refused to place a defense unit on the coast.

Every once in a great while the AI will do a naval invasion with dozens of divisions and break through with enough forces to get a solid foothold on a port.

Part of the issue they fail is because the AI cheats and ignores the required 50% naval supremacy so the transports go out unprotected. Which also means lack of shore bombardment bonus attacking. Then of course if the AI was not using its CAS as naval bombers it could give air support to the naval invasion.....

Originally posted by Logging_Camp2:

With spaghetti coding piled on top..

Yeah well that spaghetti is missing sauce, meat, and Parmesan cheese.

Which makes me wonder.....is the AI dumb at naval invasions because....
- It just cannot be programmed properly by them.
- or is it dumbed down to prevent people from whining on having to protect the coastline.
- possibly both of the above.

[hannibal_pjv]

Ai chose random thing in their focus tree based on some random propability… it can change a lot how certain country will do with AI!
Sometimes Germany steam roll everything. Sometimes Germany strugle and USSR beats AI Germany easily. The main point is that because it is random… AI USSR fail more often than AI Germany, because Germany focus tree is so small and focused. The AI will fail Germany less than USSR. Just wait new Germany dlc in near future and we start to see really poor German AI also, when random generate chose some really bad choises among the huge tree Germany will have after the update!

[johnknott]

AI Germany had been struggling against the AI Soviets since NSB because it can't build supply hubs. In fact, knowing Germany couldn't defeat the Soviets had taken a lot of jeopardy out of the game if you're playing the major Allies. So I think they might have tinkered with the Germans and now the AI Soviets can't stop AI Germany unless they get serious help from the Allies. But that's a good thing.

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by johnknott:

AI Germany had been struggling against the AI Soviets since NSB because it can't build supply hubs.

Yep, so it depends upon how many allies it has, since having allies increases the supply infrastructure.