Will resources be moved to International Market?

[Citizen X]

^

[AdmiralPiett]

Citizen X a écrit :

Primigenia a écrit :

I really miss an international market of resources and the ability to stockpile/sell the surplus

Stockpiling would be incredible. You could plan for times when resources will be unavailable

Except that nations don't "stockpile" natural resources and raw materials for a rainy day. There's not giant mounds of mined chromium or battleship grade steel just sitting in warehouses gathering dust. Nations tailor their extraction and production speeds to match up with demand, as well as their tariff and trade laws to manage how much of the material is exported. Nobody stockpiles natural resources the way they stockpile arms for later sale, so the systems should not be identical in game.

Citizen X a écrit :

AdmiralPiett a écrit :

I have given the idea consideration, and pointed out the flaws in your argument.

Such as the differences between arms trading and resource trading and the hypocrisy of wanting to reduce UI clicks for diplo by increasing UI clicks for resource trading.

None of that means I suffer from a "mental block". I don't have a mental disorder just because I disagree with you.

Ok. A "mental block" just means you are being stubborn; you are "blocking" yourself from seeing how it can work, because you have already made a decision in your head that it is not a good idea. Mental block does not mean you are retarded. Im sorry if you felt like this was an attack on you.

We simply arent going to agree. The only question I have for you is; do you think it is hard to get to Diplomacy tab, yes or no?

It is very easy to get to the diplomacy tab. Just click on the country you want to interact with on the main map view and it pops up on the left hand side.

[Primigenia]

AdmiralPiett a écrit :

Citizen X a écrit :

Stockpiling would be incredible. You could plan for times when resources will be unavailable

Except that nations don't "stockpile" natural resources and raw materials for a rainy day. There's not giant mounds of mined chromium or battleship grade steel just sitting in warehouses gathering dust. Nations tailor their extraction and production speeds to match up with demand, as well as their tariff and trade laws to manage how much of the material is exported. Nobody stockpiles natural resources the way they stockpile arms for later sale, so the systems should not be identical in game.
.

Not entirely true, many advanced nations have strategic stockpiling of resources like gas, oil, metals and rare earth. The EU and the US are known to do it and Japan is one of the biggest examples, because it has stockpiles of 38 different metals and rare minerals. Usually they amount to 60 to 180 days of production depending on the risk factor of them being cut off, and we're talking peace times

[AdmiralPiett]

Primigenia a écrit :

AdmiralPiett a écrit :

Except that nations don't "stockpile" natural resources and raw materials for a rainy day. There's not giant mounds of mined chromium or battleship grade steel just sitting in warehouses gathering dust. Nations tailor their extraction and production speeds to match up with demand, as well as their tariff and trade laws to manage how much of the material is exported. Nobody stockpiles natural resources the way they stockpile arms for later sale, so the systems should not be identical in game.
.

Not entirely true, many advanced nations have strategic stockpiling of resources like gas, oil, metals and rare earth. The EU and the US are known to do it and Japan is one of the biggest examples, because it has stockpiles of 38 different metals and rare minerals. Usually they amount to 60 to 180 days of production depending on the risk factor of them being cut off, and we're talking peace times

The strategic "stockpiles" aren't in some warehouse or storage tank, though. They're areas of natural resources still in the ground that are set aside for emergency use and not included in normal mining/production/export operations. The name "stockpile" is therefore a bit of a misnomer. The Royal Navy did this with the so-called "Naval Forests" hundreds of years ago. They didn't cut the trees down and pile them up on the dockside waiting to be used, but simply marked them in place and made their harvesting a crime. When they needed them in wartime, they cut them down.

The strategic stockpiles are prepared to be extracted at a moment's notice in an emergency, but they are NOT stockpiles in the normal sense. Certainly not in a way the game should model.

The game already DOES model the strategic stockpiles in a way: there are methods for the nation in the game to increase extraction and decrease export in the event of war or rearmament just like in real life. Neither the game or real life should have giant warehouses full of raw materials it's simply not realistic

[Útost Alronbem]

(given that we can stockpile oil in a form of fuel but can't stockpile literally all other resources despite all other resources being more fitting for stockpiling due to lack of special conditions needed to contain... the man have the point!)

[AdmiralPiett]

DrinkFromTheCup a écrit :

(given that we can stockpile oil in a form of fuel but can't stockpile literally all other resources despite all other resources being more fitting for stockpiling due to lack of special conditions needed to contain... the man have the point!)

It's actually far easier to stockpile fuel oil and other fluids than mass quantities of raw heavy metals

[Útost Alronbem]

AdmiralPiett a écrit :

It's actually far easier to stockpile fuel oil and other fluids

Ah, yes. Of course you can pour them in any random bucket/cistern/swimming pool and call it a day. How could I've forgot.
I wonder why ecologists are constantly pissed about oil storage and transfer...

[AdmiralPiett]

DrinkFromTheCup a écrit :

AdmiralPiett a écrit :

It's actually far easier to stockpile fuel oil and other fluids

Ah, yes. Of course you can pour them in any random bucket/cistern/swimming pool and call it a day. How could I've forgot.
I wonder why ecologists are constantly pissed about oil storage and transfer...

Maybe you should take a look at the construction tab in the game where it has the option to build massive fuel silos........

There's no option to build massive chromium storage bunkers or aluminum warehouses, because unlike fuel storage silos, THEY DO NOT EXIST

[Ryan]

From a realism standpoint, it would be unrealistic to be able to set the prices of natural resources for capitalistic economies. Their governments don't control the prices of goods on the world market. Governments could set export tarrifs I suppose, but their options are somewhat limited because governments don't set the prices of goods. The free market does that.

[AdmiralPiett]

Ryan a écrit :

From a realism standpoint, it would be unrealistic to be able to set the prices of natural resources for capitalistic economies. Their governments don't control the prices of goods on the world market. Governments could set export tarrifs I suppose, but their options are somewhat limited because governments don't set the prices of goods. The free market does that.

Exactly. We already have the realistic capabilities for this in the game with the scaled trade laws option.

[Citizen X]

Ryan a écrit :

From a realism standpoint, it would be unrealistic to be able to set the prices of natural resources for capitalistic economies. Their governments don't control the prices of goods on the world market. Governments could set export tarrifs I suppose, but their options are somewhat limited because governments don't set the prices of goods. The free market does that.

Unfortunately, we cant take the game that far, because the same would be true with research and production.

There is no market at all for resources, so your second point doesnt make sense. All resources are the same price from any country, distance, relationship doesnt matter. The free market isnt doing anything, because it doesn't exist within the game. No one is shopping.

We can make a scale; if doing nothing and keeping what we have now is 0, and adding full capitalist free markets within democratic countries like you mention is a 10

.. then I think adding the three buttons from the equipment market that change the price by +/-25%, that would probably be a 2. I should be able to sell my resources 6 for 1 when the supply is low and the demand is high. Since AAT, I can play a neutral country and actually profit of producing and selling equipment at high prices to desperate allies. Resources?

Its likely this will come anyways, who I am kidding

[Citizen X]

AdmiralPiett a écrit :

It is very easy to get to the diplomacy tab. Just click on the country you want to interact with on the main map view and it pops up on the left hand side.

Right. A very self explanatory place for a key feature new players will instantly know is there. Where else would Diplomacy as a general concept be? Surely, not on the Toolbar, where all the Major game-play menus are, where it has been since launch.

Maybe Diplomacy is just a minor feature. In this World War 2 game. lmao

Makes you wonder why there is even a toolbar at all. As youve made clear, any place on screen is just as good as any other.

[AdmiralPiett]

Citizen X a écrit :

AdmiralPiett a écrit :

It is very easy to get to the diplomacy tab. Just click on the country you want to interact with on the main map view and it pops up on the left hand side.

Right. A very self explanatory place for a key feature new players will instantly know is there. Where else would Diplomacy as a general concept be? Surely, not on the Toolbar, where all the Major game-play menus are, where it has been since launch.

Maybe Diplomacy is just a minor feature. In this World War 2 game. lmao

Makes you wonder why there is even a toolbar at all. As youve made clear, any place on screen is just as good as any other.

It makes perfect sense.

"Hmmmm, I'm playing as France and I want to engage in diplomacy with Italy"
*Clicks on Italy*
"Voila. That was super easy"

You really just want to throw a fit about anything don't you.

[Citizen X]

Primigenia a écrit :

AdmiralPiett a écrit :

Except that nations don't "stockpile" natural resources and raw materials for a rainy day. There's not giant mounds of mined chromium or battleship grade steel just sitting in warehouses gathering dust. Nations tailor their extraction and production speeds to match up with demand, as well as their tariff and trade laws to manage how much of the material is exported. Nobody stockpiles natural resources the way they stockpile arms for later sale, so the systems should not be identical in game.
.

Not entirely true, many advanced nations have strategic stockpiling of resources like gas, oil, metals and rare earth. The EU and the US are known to do it and Japan is one of the biggest examples, because it has stockpiles of 38 different metals and rare minerals. Usually they amount to 60 to 180 days of production depending on the risk factor of them being cut off, and we're talking peace times

You've got the right idea. When Im playing Italy, Id like a stockpile of Rubber for the temporary time when the Suez is closed, and the UK is still present in the Med. With the way the system works now, I dont think we will see this in HOI4. Resources would have to act like fuel, and then that would really complicate production lines.

Im all for this, but thats because im a person who says hell yeah and wants to find ways to make systems work in the game, meanwhile most people seem to shoot down every single idea instantly because its just too hard or because they think the game is good enough the way it is. HOI4 is great, but it could be so much better. Guess not everyone thinks it can

[AdmiralPiett]

Citizen X a écrit :

Primigenia a écrit :

Not entirely true, many advanced nations have strategic stockpiling of resources like gas, oil, metals and rare earth. The EU and the US are known to do it and Japan is one of the biggest examples, because it has stockpiles of 38 different metals and rare minerals. Usually they amount to 60 to 180 days of production depending on the risk factor of them being cut off, and we're talking peace times

You've got the right idea. When Im playing Italy, Id like a stockpile of Rubber for the temporary time when the Suez is closed, and the UK is still present in the Med. With the way the system works now, I dont think we will see this in HOI4. Resources would have to act like fuel, and then that would really complicate production lines.

Im all for this, but thats because im a person who says hell yeah and wants to find ways to make systems work in the game, meanwhile most people seem to shoot down every single idea instantly because its just too hard or because they think the game is good enough the way it is. HOI4 is great, but it could be so much better. Guess not everyone thinks it can

Sorry that some of us don't want to throw the entirety of historical realism out the window to satisfy your fantasies about changing every game mechanic to fit your precious little needs.

Want a "better game"? Go make one.

[Citizen X]

AdmiralPiett a écrit :

"Hmmmm, I'm playing as France and I want to engage in diplomacy with Italy"
*Clicks on Italy*
"Voila. That was super easy"

You really just want to throw a fit about anything don't you.

Except, you dont just click on Italy, do you? :( Because clicking on Italy, would just select the state and the province youve clicked. Nothing in the middle of the screen changes, your mouse shows the time of day, weather, and terrain, and the menu in the bottom left has the name of the State and population numbers.

Im not even sure if youve played the game at this point. Because what about any of that says, youre now at the Diplomacy screen. Or, youre half-way to the Diplomacy screen lmao

They look at the bottom, and see Building slots, population, and the name of the State, and probably then look for Diplomacy at the top. Also, where its been for 7 years.

Insufferable