How convoluted is this game?

[Hex: Onii-Chan]

Never played a HoI, but it looks very difficult to get into from the screenshots. Was wondering if it just looks scarier than it actually is. I don't want another Path of Exile / Dwarf Fortress that needs to watch 5 hours of tutorial videos to start playing XD

[SalzStange]

Originally posted by Hex: Onii-Chan:

Never played a HoI, but it looks very difficult to get into from the screenshots. Was wondering if it just looks scarier than it actually is. I don't want another Path of Exile / Dwarf Fortress that needs to watch 5 hours of tutorial videos to start playing XD

hi, it's not very compley, try out the basegame first before buying dlc's.
In fact Hoi 4 is made to reach more casual players, it's far away from hoi 1,2,3,darkesthour and other Hoi games.

It's not a pac man but it's more or less "easy to learn" you won't need 2-3 weeks to get most. It's enough to make 1-2 trainings playthroughs and read some bit more after you finished the tutorial.

Paradox made it easier for a reason, because hoi 3,2,1 and also darkest hour or armagedon had massive troubles to reach new players.

Hoi 4 is only 15% complexity of the others.

You know, hoi is one of these games with the highest average playtime.
So if you jump in into this game, and learned it 1-2 hours. You will get a game which mayb ring thousand of hours of gameplay to you. It's worth to do so

[luftatmer]

Don't play it. I is not meant for you. I know that, because in your opening post you fear 5 hours tutorial vids. This is a strategy game.

[Inquerion]

Originally posted by luftatmer:

Don't play it. I is not meant for you. I know that, because in your opening post you fear 5 hours tutorial vids. This is a strategy game.

This. It's clearly not for you, OP. Even though Hoi 4 is easier for beginners than Hoi 1, 2 and 3.

Strategic games require patience and planning. Spending several minutes or even sometimes few hours thinking how to overcome some strategic or tactical challenge is part of the fun. As well as learning the game and it's systems.

For example, I'm currently having fun thinking how to overcome 1944 Downfall/Endsieg challenge as Germany (check mod "Downfall 1944" or older "Endsieg") without cheesing the game. If you try that scenario unprepared, you will be quickly destroyed.

[Bllasae]

Very

[Hex: Onii-Chan]

Originally posted by Inquerion:

Originally posted by luftatmer:

Don't play it. I is not meant for you. I know that, because in your opening post you fear 5 hours tutorial vids. This is a strategy game.

This. It's clearly not for you, OP. Even though Hoi 4 is easier for beginners than Hoi 1, 2 and 3.

Strategic games require patience and planning. Spending several minutes or even sometimes few hours thinking how to overcome some strategic or tactical challenge is part of the fun. As well as learning the game and it's systems.

For example, I'm currently having fun thinking how to overcome 1944 Downfall/Endsieg challenge as Germany (check mod "Downfall 1944" or older "Endsieg") without cheesing the game. If you try that scenario unprepared, you will be quickly destroyed.

What are you two even on about? There is a difference between complexity and convoluted mechanics. Stellaris is complex compared to something Homeworld or Sins of a Stellar Empire, but it's fairly easy to pick up and play. Meanwhile there is Crusader Kings which is 90% spent trying to find out how to actually get a casus belli before the heat death of the universe.

Originally posted by SalzStange:

Originally posted by Hex: Onii-Chan:

Never played a HoI, but it looks very difficult to get into from the screenshots. Was wondering if it just looks scarier than it actually is. I don't want another Path of Exile / Dwarf Fortress that needs to watch 5 hours of tutorial videos to start playing XD

hi, it's not very compley, try out the basegame first before buying dlc's.
In fact Hoi 4 is made to reach more casual players, it's far away from hoi 1,2,3,darkesthour and other Hoi games.

It's not a pac man but it's more or less "easy to learn" you won't need 2-3 weeks to get most. It's enough to make 1-2 trainings playthroughs and read some bit more after you finished the tutorial.

Paradox made it easier for a reason, because hoi 3,2,1 and also darkest hour or armagedon had massive troubles to reach new players.

Hoi 4 is only 15% complexity of the others.

You know, hoi is one of these games with the highest average playtime.
So if you jump in into this game, and learned it 1-2 hours. You will get a game which mayb ring thousand of hours of gameplay to you. It's worth to do so

Aight, thanks, will check it out!

[Blind]

Originally posted by Hex: Onii-Chan:

Never played a HoI, but it looks very difficult to get into from the screenshots. Was wondering if it just looks scarier than it actually is. I don't want another Path of Exile / Dwarf Fortress that needs to watch 5 hours of tutorial videos to start playing XD

I mean you can just play right out of the gate. I suggest doing the tutorial game with italy. It will get your feet wet in every department. That said, I just hit 500 hours and still learn new things every playthrough. The majors may feel easier because of how big they are, but they can be challenging to master. Minor countries can be fun but dont expect to take over the world with them. If you play and run i to issues. Top 3 problems are: supplies, superiority, and fuel. Another big tip i wish i knew was having dedicated offense armies and dedicated defense. Theres no one size fits all in this game.

[Dedelblute3]

Originally posted by Hex: Onii-Chan:

Never played a HoI, but it looks very difficult to get into from the screenshots. Was wondering if it just looks scarier than it actually is. I don't want another Path of Exile / Dwarf Fortress that needs to watch 5 hours of tutorial videos to start playing XD

If you want to get anywhere you will basically need to either watch a tutorial or go through trial by error. If you are good at strategy games and are a very fast learner then sure I think you'll do fine. I'm 2000 hours deep and there are things I don't touch (looking at you, navy).
I know stuff, does that mean I use it? No, not really.
Pretty much if you want to know what to aim for in terms of sheer possibility, I'd recommend watching Bittersteel, even just casually. Certain mechanics are usually just min-maxed (for example division templates and airforce) while other things are completely up in the air (at least for me)
My recommendation?
Try at your own risk. You'll probably do fine, but you'll have to learn a LOT of things.
Also, don't buy DLCs, or if you do, buy recent ones over older ones - something like "No Step Back" over "Together For Victory" (EXCLUDING Trial Of Allegiance - for now at least).

[HappySack]

Not very once you get down to the basics, the only thing to avoid trying to master is how to design a full navy.

[The Doctor]

For what it's worth, I've played every single version of HOI since it was first released. The idea that HOI4 is somehow simpler than these earlier games makes me scratch my head in disbelief. I recently played a game of Darkest Hour and it feels bare bones compared to HOI4. You would need to ask these posters exactly what was better about the earlier games because I have no idea what they're talking about. They probably just mean that they liked them better and that's fine by me but that's not an argument.

HOI2 had absolutely abyssmal AI - I know because that's why I eventually stopped playing it in spite of my devotion to it. And it had the advantage of having less than half the number of provinces across the globe which made its task somewhat easier.

HOI3 was an absolute disaster at launch - the developer himself confessed that he needed real help and support after the release because it was so bad. It got better but the expansion of the number of provinces was too much. But it did introduce the bare bones of the battle planner and AI automation in its final expansion.

HOI4 is the global WW2 grand strategy game that Gary Grigsby would make. More than any other PDS game, it's primarily a wargame and a damned good one at that but it's a very complex game. you don't NEED to spend hours watching tutorial videos because each system is relatively simple to learn by itself. But there are a LOT of them and most of them are really, really important to being succesful. It's more what to do with all this that overwhelms new players.

[Citizen X]

Originally posted by HappySack:

Not very once you get down to the basics, the only thing to avoid trying to master is how to design a full navy.

Hello. I personally enjoy Navy, and so I would like to help change the opinions of people in the community on it. Is there something in particular you dont understand?

A possible issue many people could be facing, is understanding that Enemy Task Forces need to be LOCATED; this is what Surface Detection, Surface Visibility, etc has to do with.
- Sea Regions are large, Task Forces relatively small; you need to locate the enemy before your Strike Force will leave port and fight them.

If you arent locating enemy navies, your strike forces are never fighting. Since this concept doesnt exactly translate to Land Combat, it would be understandable to me if THIS is an issue people are experiencing

[drewbstar]

Honestly just watch some YouTube gameplay and see from there.

[Hagemann]

You need atleast 3 hours of tutorial / trial and error ingame to understand

[hannibal_pjv]

30 hours of videos and you will be fine!
;)
Or maybe a little but more.

[Caldrin]

So its 100% easier to get into than the older games but there is still so much depth to it thats I am still learning new things years after release..

I would say to get into the very basics is not to bad. but to get a handle on everything will take a long time but the game is a ton of fun especially when playing with others.

[Sneaky_Koala]

Originally posted by The Doctor:

For what it's worth, I've played every single version of HOI since it was first released. The idea that HOI4 is somehow simpler than these earlier games makes me scratch my head in disbelief. I recently played a game of Darkest Hour and it feels bare bones compared to HOI4. You would need to ask these posters exactly what was better about the earlier games because I have no idea what they're talking about. They probably just mean that they liked them better and that's fine by me but that's not an argument.

HOI2 had absolutely abyssmal AI - I know because that's why I eventually stopped playing it in spite of my devotion to it. And it had the advantage of having less than half the number of provinces across the globe which made its task somewhat easier.

HOI3 was an absolute disaster at launch - the developer himself confessed that he needed real help and support after the release because it was so bad. It got better but the expansion of the number of provinces was too much. But it did introduce the bare bones of the battle planner and AI automation in its final expansion.

HOI4 is the global WW2 grand strategy game that Gary Grigsby would make. More than any other PDS game, it's primarily a wargame and a damned good one at that but it's a very complex game. you don't NEED to spend hours watching tutorial videos because each system is relatively simple to learn by itself. But there are a LOT of them and most of them are really, really important to being succesful. It's more what to do with all this that overwhelms new players.

We play a lot of the same games. Even non Paradox ones. I've played every Paradox game since CK1... I also have 1000 hours plus in Gary Gigsby games... HOI3 at its end with DLC was more intricate system wise than 4 in my books and that's objective, not subjective. 4 is a lot more detailed than people give it credit for though.. maybe no DLC?

When it came out it was a joke.. a laughing stock. Sorta like Vikky 3 is now.. and CK3 always has been since release compared to 2. Hopefully they sort Vikky out but I digress.