Why aren't my troops getting supplies? (Screenshots) :: Hearts of Iron IV General Discussions

Immortalis has Hearts of Iron IV

Dec 7, 2023 @ 1:43am

- Railroad tracks are 4/5 up until Tianjin, from there outwards it's a 1/5
- You do not control a supply hub down the line, meaning that the supply still irradiates out of Tianjin and the further away you move from that poin, the harder you'll find to supply your troops.
- You control a very small portion of Shandong and as you can see in the tooltip in the second screenshot that scales the already meager supply you get from the 1/5 railroad above to a 16% of its capacity.

It's not WW1, if you cannot manage to break the enemy defenses (and in this case the issues with supplies is compounded by the fact that the enemy is entrenched behind a big river), it's okay to pull a tactical retreat, let the enemy come forward (and thus lose its defensive bonuses) and then attack them where they are weaker.
Generally speaking try not to halt you offensive in places where you are far from your own supply hubs and the enemy is near to theirs.

#1

mk11

Dec 7, 2023 @ 2:24am

The 1 point rail from Tianjin is totally irrelevant as there is no hub on it.

That the Tianjin hub is showing as a capacity of 20 means (I think, haven't played vanilla for a while) it is being restricted by a port not the rail line.

Infrastructure may also be low in Tianjin.

However, all of that said the basic problem is that you are just too far. As Immortalis says, pull-back one area, resupply, then make a concerted drive to capture the next supply hub.

#2

Maya-Neko

Dec 7, 2023 @ 4:35am

You definitely need to push to Jinan to gain acces to that supply hub down there, otherwise you get into this kind of situation, where your opponent can just wait for you to get problems. What you could do is having some of the units back off, resupply themselves and then go back in again, with the 2nd row retreating, while the 1st one tries to get that supply point.

Though since your units still have full organizations, it might still possible to push for Jinan from 3 sides, but there's a chance to fail if you can't push hard enough.

And the 3rd option would be to build a port (which is cheaper than a supply hub, but has the same effect) on the right side, i would only consider that after multiple attampts of attack Jinan directly, since it will worsen your economy without any real advantage beyond that attack.

Also i would recommend to not use the anti air support company, as china doesn't really have any air units or armor anyway and it just unnecessarily hurts your supply system even further. Maybe look into using the logistics company instead or just leave it open, until you fight someone who actually has enough planes to shoot down

Originally posted by mk11:
That the Tianjin hub is showing as a capacity of 20 means (I think, haven't played vanilla for a while) it is being restricted by a port not the rail line.

Ports are also treated like normal hubs, but can also use convoys on top of that.

The 20 means, that it is connected with a lvl 4 railroad to the capital (conected through convoys over Dalian), so it being a port doesn't really matter. The usage however is mostly dependant on terrain and distance, so having this 20 available in theory doesn't mean, that it can all be transported to the troops, as the limiting factors add up

Just imagine a pizzeria, if they decide to deliver a city further away, then the driver will be away for longer and thus reduce the amounts of trips in the same time, causing the ordering people from that city to wait longer.

Raising the motorization level definitely helps with that a littlebit, but even that has its limits, since we're talking about probably a distance that needs the trucks to be away for a full day at that point.

Last edited by Maya-Neko; Dec 7, 2023 @ 4:51am

#3

Blind

Dec 7, 2023 @ 4:47am

click your supply up and click the fix bottlenecks. You also have a decent amount of divisions on the line. One supply probbaly cant keep up with that, id make a naval base closer to the line. Also build up the infrastructure on the line. This allows for efficient transfer of fuel and supply as well as increases movement speed.

#4

Bored Peon has Hearts of Iron IV

Dec 7, 2023 @ 5:49am

1. You are in China the infrastructure sucks.
2. The infrastructure is most likely damaged.
3. Control % of a province determines % of supplies received. China is horrible with that by crossing a province border is like falling off a cliff. You screenshot even says you are only receiving 16% of the supplies due to lack of control in the province.

Tips:
1. Logistics Support is a must have for invading armies.
Your supply % affects your unit stats. Like for instance missing supply reduces your breakthrough (chance to avoid damage while attacking.) Since your attacking units are always going to be in the front they are always going to be in the worst supply situations, especially when you damage the existing stuff taking territory.

In extreme cases missing supplies increases attrition and you can bleed your equipment away to failed reliability checks, something I have had happen more than once in China.

Units sitting in the rear where there is no fighting can skip the logistics support since there is no heavy use.

2. General/Field Marshal logistic skill
Kind of an overlooked thing more of the time but IF you have a choice the higher the skill the few supplies used.

3. Ports build faster than Hubs. Not always applicable, and do not forget to guard it from naval invasion after. The AI will recognize new ports and may attack those and can even change the area the AI attempts to invade non-stop.

4. Pushing units and holding units.
Some countries I have templates for attacking and pushing the lines, like special forces armor, cavalry, etc. Then I have infantry units to hold the line. Running the pushing unit backwards to a hub to fill supplies works wonders. Units typically hold 48-72 hours of supply and if your hub is only a day from the front line you are basically attacking at fully supply power versus low supply (see supply% affecting stats)

Last edited by Bored Peon; Dec 7, 2023 @ 5:51am

#5

Beast

Dec 7, 2023 @ 4:03pm

Originally posted by Immortalis:
- Railroad tracks are 4/5 up until Tianjin, from there outwards it's a 1/5
- You do not control a supply hub down the line, meaning that the supply still irradiates out of Tianjin and the further away you move from that poin, the harder you'll find to supply your troops.
- You control a very small portion of Shandong and as you can see in the tooltip in the second screenshot that scales the already meager supply you get from the 1/5 railroad above to a 16% of its capacity.

It's not WW1, if you cannot manage to break the enemy defenses (and in this case the issues with supplies is compounded by the fact that the enemy is entrenched behind a big river), it's okay to pull a tactical retreat, let the enemy come forward (and thus lose its defensive bonuses) and then attack them where they are weaker.
Generally speaking try not to halt you offensive in places where you are far from your own supply hubs and the enemy is near to theirs.

Thanks! The advice to pullback and ressuply is a solid option. I didn't realize that was an option honestly... I thought supply just came to the range of the hub. I see now that the divisions can resupply and then push again.

As others have mentioned, I do not believe the railway matters if its only level 1. It is not actually supplying the troops. Railways supply the hubs, not the troops directly. I actually made the same mistake and made a bunch of railways all along the front lines on a different run through before I realized they don't work that way.

Thanks!

#6

Beast

Dec 7, 2023 @ 4:06pm

Originally posted by mk11:
The 1 point rail from Tianjin is totally irrelevant as there is no hub on it.

That the Tianjin hub is showing as a capacity of 20 means (I think, haven't played vanilla for a while) it is being restricted by a port not the rail line.

Infrastructure may also be low in Tianjin.

However, all of that said the basic problem is that you are just too far. As Immortalis says, pull-back one area, resupply, then make a concerted drive to capture the next supply hub.

So, the troops are in range but are in the extreme range... so solid advice is to back up a bit, resupply then rally and push? Very simple solution, thanks for the advice! I didn't know the mechanic worked quite like that. Thank you!

#7

Beast

Dec 7, 2023 @ 4:28pm

Originally posted by Maya-Neko:
You definitely need to push to Jinan to gain acces to that supply hub down there, otherwise you get into this kind of situation, where your opponent can just wait for you to get problems. What you could do is having some of the units back off, resupply themselves and then go back in again, with the 2nd row retreating, while the 1st one tries to get that supply point.

Though since your units still have full organizations, it might still possible to push for Jinan from 3 sides, but there's a chance to fail if you can't push hard enough.

And the 3rd option would be to build a port (which is cheaper than a supply hub, but has the same effect) on the right side, i would only consider that after multiple attampts of attack Jinan directly, since it will worsen your economy without any real advantage beyond that attack.

Also i would recommend to not use the anti air support company, as china doesn't really have any air units or armor anyway and it just unnecessarily hurts your supply system even further. Maybe look into using the logistics company instead or just leave it open, until you fight someone who actually has enough planes to shoot down

Originally posted by mk11:
That the Tianjin hub is showing as a capacity of 20 means (I think, haven't played vanilla for a while) it is being restricted by a port not the rail line.

Ports are also treated like normal hubs, but can also use convoys on top of that.

The 20 means, that it is connected with a lvl 4 railroad to the capital (conected through convoys over Dalian), so it being a port doesn't really matter. The usage however is mostly dependant on terrain and distance, so having this 20 available in theory doesn't mean, that it can all be transported to the troops, as the limiting factors add up

Just imagine a pizzeria, if they decide to deliver a city further away, then the driver will be away for longer and thus reduce the amounts of trips in the same time, causing the ordering people from that city to wait longer.

Raising the motorization level definitely helps with that a littlebit, but even that has its limits, since we're talking about probably a distance that needs the trucks to be away for a full day at that point.

Great, so I am understanding that the supply is up to 20 because of level 4 railway (Each level of railway supports 5 supply so 4 x 5 = 20. cool) But now I am seeing that the port at Dalian is only level 5, and I thought ports provided 3 supply per level... so then wouldn't that only allow 15 supply through... so my level 4 railways should be restricted by that? Down to 15 instead of the maximum of 20 per the level 4 railway?

#8

Beast

Dec 7, 2023 @ 4:30pm

Originally posted by Bored Peon:
1. You are in China the infrastructure sucks.
2. The infrastructure is most likely damaged.
3. Control % of a province determines % of supplies received. China is horrible with that by crossing a province border is like falling off a cliff. You screenshot even says you are only receiving 16% of the supplies due to lack of control in the province.

Tips:
1. Logistics Support is a must have for invading armies.
Your supply % affects your unit stats. Like for instance missing supply reduces your breakthrough (chance to avoid damage while attacking.) Since your attacking units are always going to be in the front they are always going to be in the worst supply situations, especially when you damage the existing stuff taking territory.

In extreme cases missing supplies increases attrition and you can bleed your equipment away to failed reliability checks, something I have had happen more than once in China.

Units sitting in the rear where there is no fighting can skip the logistics support since there is no heavy use.

2. General/Field Marshal logistic skill
Kind of an overlooked thing more of the time but IF you have a choice the higher the skill the few supplies used.

3. Ports build faster than Hubs. Not always applicable, and do not forget to guard it from naval invasion after. The AI will recognize new ports and may attack those and can even change the area the AI attempts to invade non-stop.

4. Pushing units and holding units.
Some countries I have templates for attacking and pushing the lines, like special forces armor, cavalry, etc. Then I have infantry units to hold the line. Running the pushing unit backwards to a hub to fill supplies works wonders. Units typically hold 48-72 hours of supply and if your hub is only a day from the front line you are basically attacking at fully supply power versus low supply (see supply% affecting stats)

Thank you, this clears up a lot of my mistakes!

#9

Beast

Dec 7, 2023 @ 4:34pm

Originally posted by Maya-Neko:
You definitely need to push to Jinan to gain acces to that supply hub down there, otherwise you get into this kind of situation, where your opponent can just wait for you to get problems. What you could do is having some of the units back off, resupply themselves and then go back in again, with the 2nd row retreating, while the 1st one tries to get that supply point.

Though since your units still have full organizations, it might still possible to push for Jinan from 3 sides, but there's a chance to fail if you can't push hard enough.

And the 3rd option would be to build a port (which is cheaper than a supply hub, but has the same effect) on the right side, i would only consider that after multiple attampts of attack Jinan directly, since it will worsen your economy without any real advantage beyond that attack.

Also i would recommend to not use the anti air support company, as china doesn't really have any air units or armor anyway and it just unnecessarily hurts your supply system even further. Maybe look into using the logistics company instead or just leave it open, until you fight someone who actually has enough planes to shoot down

Originally posted by mk11:
That the Tianjin hub is showing as a capacity of 20 means (I think, haven't played vanilla for a while) it is being restricted by a port not the rail line.

Ports are also treated like normal hubs, but can also use convoys on top of that.

The 20 means, that it is connected with a lvl 4 railroad to the capital (conected through convoys over Dalian), so it being a port doesn't really matter. The usage however is mostly dependant on terrain and distance, so having this 20 available in theory doesn't mean, that it can all be transported to the troops, as the limiting factors add up

Just imagine a pizzeria, if they decide to deliver a city further away, then the driver will be away for longer and thus reduce the amounts of trips in the same time, causing the ordering people from that city to wait longer.

Raising the motorization level definitely helps with that a littlebit, but even that has its limits, since we're talking about probably a distance that needs the trucks to be away for a full day at that point.

Great, so I am understanding that the supply is up to 20 because of level 4 railway (Each level of railway supports 5 supply so 4 x 5 = 20. cool) But now I am seeing that the port at Dalian is only level 5, and I thought ports provided 3 supply per level... so then wouldn't that only allow 15 supply through... so my level 4 railways should be restricted by that? Down to 15 instead of the maximum of 20 per the level 4 railway?

Also... now that I am understanding this a bit better... Since my Capital is Tokyo... and in this game that is THE supply hub for everything... don't I need a level 5 railway from Tokyo going to a level 10 Naval Base out from Japan and then to a level 10 Naval Base near the front lines if I want maximum supply out to the world?

(I asked the same questions of another responder, pardon the repeat I just want to see what I am missing)

#10

Maya-Neko

Dec 7, 2023 @ 4:52pm

Originally posted by Beast:
Great, so I am understanding that the supply is up to 20 because of level 4 railway (Each level of railway supports 5 supply so 4 x 5 = 20. cool) But now I am seeing that the port at Dalian is only level 5, and I thought ports provided 3 supply per level... so then wouldn't that only allow 15 supply through... so my level 4 railways should be restricted by that? Down to 15 instead of the maximum of 20 per the level 4 railway?

Can't really answer that. I can only imagine the 2nd port on the same railway contributing to it as well, but i can't really find anything about that right now

Last edited by Maya-Neko; Dec 7, 2023 @ 4:53pm

#11

Beast

Dec 7, 2023 @ 5:06pm

Originally posted by Maya-Neko:
Originally posted by Beast:
Great, so I am understanding that the supply is up to 20 because of level 4 railway (Each level of railway supports 5 supply so 4 x 5 = 20. cool) But now I am seeing that the port at Dalian is only level 5, and I thought ports provided 3 supply per level... so then wouldn't that only allow 15 supply through... so my level 4 railways should be restricted by that? Down to 15 instead of the maximum of 20 per the level 4 railway?

Can't really answer that. I can only imagine the 2nd port on the same railway contributing to it as well, but i can't really find anything about that right now

Ok no worries. Also thanks for the tip about the AAA in the infantry, I kinda thought they would tear up infantry too but you are correct they are really only good vs light armor (and planes obvi.) Plus the logistics battalion will help in my specific predicament!

#12

Maya-Neko

Dec 8, 2023 @ 2:50am

Originally posted by Beast:
Ok no worries. Also thanks for the tip about the AAA in the infantry, I kinda thought they would tear up infantry too but you are correct they are really only good vs light armor (and planes obvi.) Plus the logistics battalion will help in my specific predicament!

Yeah, that's right, but the thing is, that china is horribly bad in the early game in terms of research, as it doesn't have any tank or mechanized/armored infantry developed, so the piercing of the infantry divisions and the artillery is usually enough for quite some while. AA and anti tank guns gets more important later on, if you fight one of the majors or doesn't finish China, until they can actually get some armored units in.

Last edited by Maya-Neko; Dec 8, 2023 @ 2:51am

#13

Hearts of Iron IV

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