Winter War

[johnknott]

Strange question but I'm curious.

I've played 1178 hours including several Soviet Union runs and I actually like my games to be close to historical.

Yet I have NEVER attacked Finland. Other than historical accuracy, I can't see a (good) reason to do so. So why do you? (If you do)

It's quite a way into the focus tree and needs to be after you got rid of paranoia. There's absolutely nothing worth having there. Neutral Finland is a useful barrier between you and the soon-to-be-occupied Norway.

In short, there seems to be more important fish to fry so why do it?

[Maximus]

Originally posted by johnknott:

Strange question but I'm curious.

I've played 1178 hours including several Soviet Union runs and I actually like my games to be close to historical.

Yet I have NEVER attacked Finland. Other than historical accuracy, I can't see a (good) reason to do so. So why do you? (If you do)

It's quite a way into the focus tree and needs to be after you got rid of paranoia. There's absolutely nothing worth having there. Neutral Finland is a useful barrier between you and the soon-to-be-occupied Norway.

In short, there seems to be more important fish to fry so why do it?

grinding xp before barb is pretty good. Having the extra border space from Finland can also be helpful if they are going to go fascist or do continuation war later. but above all, a player can easily capitulate Finland from the AI so you really arent losing much.

In older versions of hoi4, you had to attack a country in order to remove great purge debuffs

[hannibal_pjv]

In old times the winter war (or any war) was required so that you get purge the army... and get rid of a lot of debufs. I don´t know if there is any reason other than XP to do it any more.

[Ás Fífldjarfi]

IIRC, fighting a war is neccessary to continue down the army-reform path at some point. If Germany doesn't attack you, you are stuck, unless you go to war with Finland(or someone else).

[Pr0fessor]

Originally posted by johnknott:

Strange question but I'm curious.

I've played 1178 hours including several Soviet Union runs and I actually like my games to be close to historical.

Yet I have NEVER attacked Finland. Other than historical accuracy, I can't see a (good) reason to do so. So why do you? (If you do)

It's quite a way into the focus tree and needs to be after you got rid of paranoia. There's absolutely nothing worth having there. Neutral Finland is a useful barrier between you and the soon-to-be-occupied Norway.

In short, there seems to be more important fish to fry so why do it?

free stuff

[johnknott]

Originally posted by Ás Fífldjarfi:

IIRC, fighting a war is neccessary to continue down the army-reform path at some point. If Germany doesn't attack you, you are stuck, unless you go to war with Finland(or someone else).

You only need the army-reform stuff if you're fighting someone. And if you're fighting someone then they're available.

Or have I misunderstood? (Perfectly possible)

[johnknott]

Aren't you more likely to get a "continuation war" if you've already gone to war with them? In fact, isn't that the only way?

While I don't know, I'm guessing that since AAT Finland can be a pain in the backside if you do the Winter War as they'll keep opening up a new front (that isn't even historical). Which is why I always switch them to historical AI now. No idea if that works.

[Maya-Neko]

As someone who never really plays historical games, i rather go to war with countries to have fun, which also includes those countries, which doesn't have that much strategical value and having these kinds of focuses definitely helps to maintain the series of war, if the other big factions get too passive in a non-historic playthrough^^

[velvetcrabman]

Ports: it's worth puppeting Finland for the ports alone, airbases too.

Security: with a Finland puppet you secure the northern border and also have a start line for any right hook through the Scandie countries.

Finland doesn't have huge value in terms of res or factories, but has a wee bit, however as a strategic asset it can be of enormous value.

[johnknott]

Originally posted by velvetcrabman:

Security: with a Finland puppet you secure the northern border and also have a start line for any right hook through the Scandie countries.

There's nothing more secure than a neutral country between you and a potential enemy. In 1178 hours I have never known Germany invade Finland. So there's no border up there unless the Soviets take out the Finns.

[mk11]

By taking all of Finland you can attack Norway.

The German AI has a tendency to divert tanks there. You can use naval invasion to take Tromso or Narvik and chop off a nice group of German divisions. If you push South and take all of Norway it is a good position to attack Sweden from and rush into Denmark to open a new front.

It gives something for your Navy to do.

[Maya-Neko]

Originally posted by johnknott:

There's nothing more secure than a neutral country between you and a potential enemy. In 1178 hours I have never known Germany invade Finland. So there's no border up there unless the Soviets take out the Finns.

Not that surprising in historical playthroughs. In non-historical ones though it can happen from time to time or sometimes neutral germany creates a faction in which a non-fascist/communist Finland might join (or a fascist Finland joining Fascist germany) or when GB flips to fascist, a fascist Finland migh join them. So defeating Finland before they can get into these factions is definitely not a bad idea for non-historical playthroughs.

Like Finland is one of the least predictable countries in europe due to it being able to swap to each ideology.

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by johnknott:

Originally posted by Ás Fífldjarfi:

IIRC, fighting a war is neccessary to continue down the army-reform path at some point. If Germany doesn't attack you, you are stuck, unless you go to war with Finland(or someone else).

You only need the army-reform stuff if you're fighting someone. And if you're fighting someone then they're available.

Or have I misunderstood? (Perfectly possible)

What he was saying was reform requires a war.
Finland is an easy war without causing a factional upheaval and half the world attacking you.

In my experience the minors with special focus tree need to be let be to run their course because you get better property if you do. For example, basic Greenland which is like 2 building slots with 14 aluminium or one that is liek 15 aluminium, steel tungsten and chromium, and like 6-8 building slots.

[johnknott]

This is a new AAT thing.

Just playing a Soviet run and, as usual, didn't invade Finland (though I took the Baltics). As soon as Barbarossa kicks off Finland launches their continuation(?) war against me.

Got the white peace pretty quickly (as Finland seemed to have about half a dozen divisions) but not quick enough to stop Germany crossing from the Norwegian border and opening up a new front.

And I set the Finnish AI to historical to stop that sort of silliness.

I appreciate that as soon as a minor nation gets a focus tree they become massive attention seekers but is there anyway to stop Finland doing daft things like that? It's not big, it's not clever and it certainly isn't historical.

[velvetcrabman]

Originally posted by johnknott:

This is a new AAT thing.

Just playing a Soviet run and, as usual, didn't invade Finland (though I took the Baltics). As soon as Barbarossa kicks off Finland launches their continuation(?) war against me.



And I set the Finnish AI to historical to stop that sort of silliness.

Originally posted by johnknott:

Originally posted by velvetcrabman:

Security: with a Finland puppet you secure the northern border and also have a start line for any right hook through the Scandie countries.

There's nothing more secure than a neutral country between you and a potential enemy. In 1178 hours I have never known Germany invade Finland. So there's no border up there unless the Soviets take out the Finns.

Maybe that makes my point clearer ;)

[Roadkill]

They are easy to crush. A little bit harder after the update of course. Easy way to get exp. And if you dont they attack you now. Crush them and make them a puppet. Don't call them in when the war starts with Germany. Now your northern border is permanently secure.