Where is new focus tree/rework for Czechoslovakia

[King of Pleasure]

Czechoslovakia was 8th strongest military and economy in 1938th, in europe 4th. Whole munich was very important for Germany and one would said the most important as Hitler wanted to use it as excuse to start war. There could be whole new ahistorical way of czechs fight back and maybe even completly new history of east vs west. If you look at amount of civs/mils of czechoslovakia you can see it is completly off reality. (why the hell does poland have more factories consider the fact they way nearly twice under Czechoslovakia avarage gdp capita). By the logic of Hoi 4 10th strongest economies should be majors which mean that Czechoslovakia should be one. Yet till this date we have only 2 playable options of either surrender without fight or side with allies (which btw is ahistorical and couldnt happend). Yet we have no other options that would offer logical alternative histories. But it is ofc fine that Greece can make byzantine that is logical. The most iritating thing is that central europe isnt even playable in historical. Central Europe is there just to be eaten by Germany ever game, which sure... is logical for historical runs, but we have milions of alternative histories focuses elsewhere. Also if there would be DLC for Czechoslovakia then we could also rework Austria and Hungary and introduce new mechanics that are important for important countries like Germany. But we surely do not gonna get any interesting mechanics for important majors if whole dlc is about frecking snow that nobody care about... But yea i guess Finland rework is great idea too.

[mk11]

You do know that there is a Czechoslovakian focus tree in the Death and Dishonor DLC?

And you can go Fascist, Democratic, Communist...

You do know Poland had more than twice the population of Czechoslovakia?

[King of Pleasure]

Originally posted by mk11:

You do know that there is a Czechoslovakian focus tree in the Death and Dishonor DLC?

And you can go Fascist, Democratic, Communist...

You do know Poland had more than twice the population of Czechoslovakia?

You just show you have no clue. talking about population like if it would mean something. By your "genius" logic you might aswell give China more factories than Germany cause they have more population. You also clueless about difference between destination and a way.

[mk11]

You said "why the hell does poland have more factories consider the fact they way nearly twice under Czechoslovakia avarage gdp capita". I took that with the relative population to make the obvious deduction that Polish gdp was more than Czechoslovakian and since you were using gdp as a proxy for factory count I thought you might like to know that.

I haven't a clue what you mean by destination and a way.

And you still haven't made clear whether in the OP you were aware there is already a Czech focus tree or are just clueless.

[King of Pleasure]

Originally posted by mk11:

You said "why the hell does poland have more factories consider the fact they way nearly twice under Czechoslovakia avarage gdp capita". I took that with the relative population to make the obvious deduction that Polish gdp was more than Czechoslovakian and since you were using gdp as a proxy for factory count I thought you might like to know that.

I haven't a clue what you mean by destination and a way.

And you still haven't made clear whether in the OP you were aware there is already a Czech focus tree or are just clueless.

You may also know that Czechoslovakia had 15 mil to Poland 35 population while Poland have around 25% more factories which does not match. wealth per capita is good to show wealth of country but multiplying it by population isnt the way you estimated wealth of country mainly in before WW2 where it was common for state to have they own stuff. But that would mean you would had to know anything about topic.

[mk11]

Yes GDP is a poor measure for comparing countries. But you were the one that mentioned it.

With DLC, Poland starts with 17 civ and 9 mil. Czech starts with 16 civ and 9 mil. That isn't 25% more (Poland does have 1 dockyard). Poland though starts with Embargoed economy so it has 2 more civ unavailable and Czech starts with +10% construction speed and +20% factory output. So that means effectively Poland has 9 mil and 7 civ while the Czechs have 10.8 mil and 8.8 civs.

To my mind, a bigger issue with the Czechs in the game is that HOI IV has no way of handling countries like Czechoslovakia and Belgium that had very large reserve armies and efficient mobilisation plans.

[Varenvel The Festive Dinosaur]

Originally posted by mk11:

Yes GDP is a poor measure for comparing countries. But you were the one that mentioned it.

With DLC, Poland starts with 17 civ and 9 mil. Czech starts with 16 civ and 9 mil. That isn't 25% more (Poland does have 1 dockyard). Poland though starts with Embargoed economy so it has 2 more civ unavailable and Czech starts with +10% construction speed and +20% factory output. So that means effectively Poland has 9 mil and 7 civ while the Czechs have 10.8 mil and 8.8 civs.

To my mind, a bigger issue with the Czechs in the game is that HOI IV has no way of handling countries like Czechoslovakia and Belgium that had very large reserve armies and efficient mobilisation plans.

Yeah especialy india GDP supposingly surpassed UK's not that long ago , but when you look at production and standard of living you get diffrent picture , GDP is less relevant then most think , its just rich people and investors bragging how good economy is when it grew compared to other countries and last year , but rarely has any visible impact on well being or production of a nation.

[King of Pleasure]

Originally posted by Varenvel The Festive Dinosaur:

Originally posted by mk11:

Yes GDP is a poor measure for comparing countries. But you were the one that mentioned it.

With DLC, Poland starts with 17 civ and 9 mil. Czech starts with 16 civ and 9 mil. That isn't 25% more (Poland does have 1 dockyard). Poland though starts with Embargoed economy so it has 2 more civ unavailable and Czech starts with +10% construction speed and +20% factory output. So that means effectively Poland has 9 mil and 7 civ while the Czechs have 10.8 mil and 8.8 civs.

To my mind, a bigger issue with the Czechs in the game is that HOI IV has no way of handling countries like Czechoslovakia and Belgium that had very large reserve armies and efficient mobilisation plans.

Yeah especialy india GDP supposingly surpassed UK's not that long ago , but when you look at production and standard of living you get diffrent picture , GDP is less relevant then most think , its just rich people and investors bragging how good economy is when it grew compared to other countries and last year , but rarely has any visible impact on well being or production of a nation.

i never talked about GDP..... i talked about GPD PER CAPITA. thats a whole new story. It is good way to look on where people live better finance life.

[King of Pleasure]

Originally posted by mk11:

Yes GDP is a poor measure for comparing countries. But you were the one that mentioned it.

With DLC, Poland starts with 17 civ and 9 mil. Czech starts with 16 civ and 9 mil. That isn't 25% more (Poland does have 1 dockyard). Poland though starts with Embargoed economy so it has 2 more civ unavailable and Czech starts with +10% construction speed and +20% factory output. So that means effectively Poland has 9 mil and 7 civ while the Czechs have 10.8 mil and 8.8 civs.

To my mind, a bigger issue with the Czechs in the game is that HOI IV has no way of handling countries like Czechoslovakia and Belgium that had very large reserve armies and efficient mobilisation plans.

first of all. Czechoslovakia was one of most heavy industrialized countries in world while Poland was agroculture country. So they should have waaaay lower amount of military factories where i believe having 25% or maybe even 20% of what Czechoslovakia had begin way more resonable. You are correct that Czechoslovakia had just 1 less factory at start, but in the focuses Poland can get 19 factories to Czechoslovakia 9 or 3 factories. and you are also pretty much forced to go for 3 factories to remove divided nation debuff. Poland also get multiple free railways by doing this focuses. (Take in mind that Czechoslovakia was biggest producer in WORLD in train industry and Poland have nearly twice as better railways in hoi4). Your informations about 20% factory output are not correct, that is quite a old data they already change it to just construction speed. You can get same amount with Poland in first economic focus. If we go more in depth in this economical focuses you can also see Poland get atomic research bonus while Czechoslovakia scienties had huge participation at German tries of atomic bomb which at that time were the most advanced atomic bombs, while Poland didnt had completly anything to do with atomic bombs. Poland also get option to gain 1 research slot so they have 4 againist 3 of Czechoslovakia with possibility to get one extra later on. Poland also have 18 thousand weapons in contrast to 13 thousand of Czechoslovakia OF SAME TIER. Take in consideration that Czechoslovakia army was well known for having the best overall infantry weapon equipment having edge even in contras to countries like Germany. But lets not just compare Poland to Czechoslovakia. I believe except early free science slot and atomic advancement poland focus is OK. What is not OK is Czechoslovakia stats. They should have around 25 Civs, additional 9-12 in focus, 18 mils (again Czechoslovakia was heavy industry power house) and additional 10 in focus (they cannot even get mils in focus they have now) They should also get bonus on railwayses and train production. For sure at least support weapons I maybe even II. For sure they should have at least truck I unlocked. (again insane heavy industry) i would remove engine 2 from planes cause Czechoslovakia airforce wasnt that good. Another stuff that dont really add up - You wont be able to achive the amounts of tanks they had in 1939 unless you waste all mils on it. 0 Artilery, in real life in 1936 they had around 2000, again one of best in world. Czechoslovakia is basicly intentionally made weak so that there is not problem with munich.

[mk11]

Originally posted by King of Pleasure:

... Your informations about 20% factory output are not correct, that is quite a old data they already change it to just construction speed.

+10% Export Focus
+10% Skoda Works

Poland is overpowered.

In 1936 the UK had 3 times the population of Czechoslovakia. In HOI it starts with less than twice the industry not counting dockyards or 2.5 times that including dockyard. Per capita Czechoslovakia has more industry than the UK showing its heavily industrialised state.

[King of Pleasure]

Originally posted by mk11:

Originally posted by King of Pleasure:

... Your informations about 20% factory output are not correct, that is quite a old data they already change it to just construction speed.

+10% Export Focus
+10% Skoda Works

Poland is overpowered.

In 1936 the UK had 3 times the population of Czechoslovakia. In HOI it starts with less than twice the industry not counting dockyards or 2.5 times that including dockyard. Per capita Czechoslovakia has more industry than the UK showing its heavily industrialised state.

that is pathetic... whole time you turn this discussion to Poland vs Czechoslovakia and when i give you certain numbers to show it is not right you just turn and said Poland is overpowered... If i start compare with UK now for instance you again just gonna say UK is overpowered... Germany is the most important country in HOI4 so you should compare every country with Germany. I did that in my last comment and it just dont match neither. Again, i understand you wanna give player strong Germany cause the way WW2 end up does not match with statistics on paper but you can do that other ways than by destroy Czechoslovakia stats so that Germany can beat them...

[mk11]

Originally posted by King of Pleasure:

that is pathetic... whole time you turn this discussion to Poland vs Czechoslovakia and when i give you certain numbers to show it is not right you just turn and said Poland is overpowered...

You started the comparison with Poland in the opening topic.

It is hard to read your walls of text but I think the only comparison to Germany you made was regarding the atomic research and the quality of infantry equipment.

I should have been clearer, it is not that Poland is overpowered at start but rather that the revised focus tree is overpowered. This seems the way Paradox is going in its latest DLC.

I don't want to give player a strong Germany, I haven't mentioned Germany before this.

[Immortalis]

Geez guys... enough with the "my country is better" argument.

It's a game, not an historically accurate simulator. That's why it's not necessarily an auto-win for the USA, or why real issues like different railways gauges are not represented, or why most issues that were faced IRL have little to no impact on the game (France was incapable of having a stable government for 20 years before they were occupied by the Germans, Germany itself is widely boosted in the game compared to the real world, Italy doesn't have the issues of incredibly brittle steel making their tanks useless etc etc).

If you want a more realistic experience your best option is to go look for a mod that suits your needs (or even better a small collection of mods).

[King of Pleasure]

Originally posted by mk11:

Originally posted by King of Pleasure:

that is pathetic... whole time you turn this discussion to Poland vs Czechoslovakia and when i give you certain numbers to show it is not right you just turn and said Poland is overpowered...

You started the comparison with Poland in the opening topic.

It is hard to read your walls of text but I think the only comparison to Germany you made was regarding the atomic research and the quality of infantry equipment.

I should have been clearer, it is not that Poland is overpowered at start but rather that the revised focus tree is overpowered. This seems the way Paradox is going in its latest DLC.

I don't want to give player a strong Germany, I haven't mentioned Germany before this.

Originally posted by mk11:

Originally posted by King of Pleasure:

that is pathetic... whole time you turn this discussion to Poland vs Czechoslovakia and when i give you certain numbers to show it is not right you just turn and said Poland is overpowered...

You started the comparison with Poland in the opening topic.

It is hard to read your walls of text but I think the only comparison to Germany you made was regarding the atomic research and the quality of infantry equipment.

I should have been clearer, it is not that Poland is overpowered at start but rather that the revised focus tree is overpowered. This seems the way Paradox is going in its latest DLC.

I don't want to give player a strong Germany, I haven't mentioned Germany before this.

That was a rhetorical generic you... not you personally.

[King of Pleasure]

Originally posted by Immortalis:

Geez guys... enough with the "my country is better" argument.

It's a game, not an historically accurate simulator. That's why it's not necessarily an auto-win for the USA, or why real issues like different railways gauges are not represented, or why most issues that were faced IRL have little to no impact on the game (France was incapable of having a stable government for 20 years before they were occupied by the Germans, Germany itself is widely boosted in the game compared to the real world, Italy doesn't have the issues of incredibly brittle steel making their tanks useless etc etc).

If you want a more realistic experience your best option is to go look for a mod that suits your needs (or even better a small collection of mods).

guys stop arguing about what country is most fitted for dlc rework in thread about what country is better fitted for dlc. GEEEZ GEEEZ GUYS COMMON

[Immortalis]

Originally posted by King of Pleasure:

guys stop arguing about what country is most fitted for dlc rework in thread about what country is better fitted for dlc. GEEEZ GEEEZ GUYS COMMON

Jesus!! You must be a funny guy!

The issue is you're not debating which country deserves a DLC. You are debating if the one should consider GDP, wealth per capita, population and so forth to determine that.

That's not how the devs do DLC. They focus on an area that has a few nations with things in common and develop those. They are not going to develop a DLC focused exclusively on any one country and if that's what you want it would be better to check for a mod addressing that specific country. They do not consider GDP, population or even the contribution a country made to the war (Italy received its first update years after Portugal did, for crying out loud!!).

Now, considering that there are countries who have not yet received *any* update or dedicated focus tree (Belgium and Ireland in Europe, the entirety of South America and the Middle East) I feel like you should be providing an argument a tad better than "Well, this nation is not represented in an historically accurate way" to make a worthy suggestion for the next DLC. But hey, you do you... I'm out