No more super heavies is BS

[Skyman100]

My favorite unit is the game for fun is being removed what a terrible change

[SGT Spack 7]

as much as i hate paradox and thier crap dlc policy this is a MUCH needed change


super heavies were terrible and way too expensive to use for a job mediums or lights can do 10 times better

[e.]

What's the problem with having them for badass-ness though?

[WalrusJones]

Most of their effects came from how stats are averaged anyhow, where 40-60% of the stats came from your single strongest source of them.

This doesn't change with them being a support company, where they just happen to give the most attack per support company now while also being the only support company without an armor penalty.

One thing I found is you can still get a unit designated as a super heavy tank division on the map by icon if you just make the division they are supporting an even mix of its two front line units. The super heavy tank takes priority then and it becomes an officially designated super heavy tank division even if the SH tanks are just a support company.

I found this while having them support an even mix of marines/mountaineers.

[Fyrliel]

It completely removes player control over the use of super heavy tanks when they should be allowed to choose how they are used. The Americans and British might have planned to use super heavies in “support company” role but the Germans planned to use them in a battalion. Players should be able to choose how they use them. Every country had a different doctrine and plan for using everything and Hoi4 tries to model this but why force every country to adopt the same doctrine for super heavies? Paradox should allow you to build the battalions regardless of how expensive they are. At the very least there should be a choice between battalion/divisional or as a support company

[Skyman100]

Originally posted by Franz die Sturmtroopen:

It completely removes player control over the use of super heavy tanks when they should be allowed to choose how they are used. The Americans and British might have planned to use super heavies in “support company” role but the Germans planned to use them in a battalion. Players should be able to choose how they use them. Every country had a different doctrine and plan for using everything and Hoi4 tries to model this but why force every country to adopt the same doctrine for super heavies? Paradox should allow you to build the battalions regardless of how expensive they are. At the very least there should be a choice between battalion/divisional or as a support company

This

[lakupupu]

it is utterly ridiculous that they're removing their ability to be used as tanks

super heavies *are* unreliable, unwieldy and very expensive, but why would they limit what players can or cant do with their divisions? removing the ability to couple infantry with super heavies for no space marines is understandable, but it feels dumb not being able to even meme around with super heavy tank divisions whether hoping for a miracle to occur and the super heavies to stop the enemy horde or if you just want to meme and go through reinforced positions

everyone knows that using super heavies is a conscious decision, and so does paradox, so why should they limit it? removing the super heavy as a battalion and making it only a support company kind of makes it more of a bore to use because i want battalions, not support companies for my division

i dont know how others use their tanks, but when i build tanks, 80% of the time i want them to be meaningful, used in the field of battle, to have them in my battalions instead of a small support company i could replace with engineers and flame tanks anyway

[SGT Spack 7]

because it makes no sense, anyone decent at the game will tell you mediums are always the best there's a reason why cheap easy medium tanks like the Sherman and the T-34 and other medium style tanks became the main tank of ww2 and most successful and why they evolved into the main battle tank.

the changes make super tanks ACTUALLY viable for the decent player to put into his medium or light tank divisions as you only need 20 super heavy which is manageable.

anyone trying to field a massive super heavy tank army is either in late game and owns half the world which is just overkill and you have probably already won or is modding/cheating

[floss8]

funny how today front line tanks a nearly as heavy as a superheavy when fully kitted out.

[WalrusJones]

Originally posted by floss8:

funny how today front line tanks a nearly as heavy as a superheavy when fully kitted out.

???

70 tons kitted out versus 180 yes almost as heavy.

[Fyrliel]

Originally posted by SGT Spack 7:

because it makes no sense, anyone decent at the game will tell you mediums are always the best there's a reason why cheap easy medium tanks like the Sherman and the T-34 and other medium style tanks became the main tank of ww2 and most successful and why they evolved into the main battle tank.

the changes make super tanks ACTUALLY viable for the decent player to put into his medium or light tank divisions as you only need 20 super heavy which is manageable.

anyone trying to field a massive super heavy tank army is either in late game and owns half the world which is just overkill and you have probably already won or is modding/cheating

This isn’t about meta or practicality. Yes mediums are better in most circumstances and yes a super heavy support company can make them more viable but this is about player control and choice. We want to be able to choose how to use the super heavy tanks wether as support companies or as divisions/battalions. Almost everyone who builds super heavies does so knowing they are a more single purpose unit that isn’t universal like mediums. Why can’t we be allowed to choose if we want the super heavies to be support companies or battalions? Most players play single player and the cost prevents people from using them universally in multiplayer so it isn’t like there are swarms of 60-80 width super heavy tank divisions steam rolling multiplayer games.

[Big [REDACTED] Marty]

an 80 w super heavy tank? impressive, i was under the impression that 75w was the highest possible

[lakupupu]

Originally posted by Franz die Sturmtroopen:

Originally posted by SGT Spack 7:

because it makes no sense, anyone decent at the game will tell you mediums are always the best there's a reason why cheap easy medium tanks like the Sherman and the T-34 and other medium style tanks became the main tank of ww2 and most successful and why they evolved into the main battle tank.

the changes make super tanks ACTUALLY viable for the decent player to put into his medium or light tank divisions as you only need 20 super heavy which is manageable.

anyone trying to field a massive super heavy tank army is either in late game and owns half the world which is just overkill and you have probably already won or is modding/cheating

This isn’t about meta or practicality. Yes mediums are better in most circumstances and yes a super heavy support company can make them more viable but this is about player control and choice. We want to be able to choose how to use the super heavy tanks wether as support companies or as divisions/battalions. Almost everyone who builds super heavies does so knowing they are a more single purpose unit that isn’t universal like mediums. Why can’t we be allowed to choose if we want the super heavies to be support companies or battalions? Most players play single player and the cost prevents people from using them universally in multiplayer so it isn’t like there are swarms of 60-80 width super heavy tank divisions steam rolling multiplayer games.

exactly, everyone *knows* they are too expensive and unreliable which makes using them as divisions all the more conscious
but just because theyre "bad" shouldnt prevent anyone from using them for the heck of it

straight up removing the chance of using them as divisions or battalions is unbelievable

[SGT Spack 7]

let's do some maths shall we

the most efficient tank for single player is a soft attack oriented tank as the majority of the ai troops will be infantry.
the rules i used was no tank designer and only 5 engine power and 4 amour added on
and the mode advanced tanks were used
i've missed some stats that arent as important

the advanced light tank with the best soft attack consists of
8.2km sped
102% reliability
30 soft attack
armour 41.8
breakthrough 31
defence 10
and the cost to make it 17

the advanced medium
6.6km speed
121 reliability
50 i say that again 50 soft attack
104 armour
36 breakthrough
10 defence
cost 23

so already the medium is massively better for much better firepower and armour for a low low cost

advanced heavy
5.8km speed
86 reliability
soft attack 35
armour 156
breakthrough 41
defence 10
cost 41

so almost double the cost for a tank that is slower with less reliability and has less soft attack, the hard attack for the record is 40 is useless as the ai barely builds tanks and thier templates SUCK.

now the modern tank is better
6.6km speed
46 soft attack
121 reliability
armour 156
breakthrough 54
12 defence
cost 32
now this isn't the worse trade, much better armour and breakthrough and the same reliability and speed for a small nerf on soft attack can be worth the extra 10 cost up to you if you want to replace and have to regain all production efficiency for that


the super heavy
i couldnt actually do the 5 speed and 4 amour upgrade because the tank didnt have enough speed (troll face) so it has 9 engine and 5 amour
4.1 speed
69 reliability
40 soft attack
amour 170
breakthrough 170
10 defence
cost 69

so almost triple the cost for a tank that has less soft attack is slow as a sloth breaks down more uses more fuel for barely more armour and breakthrough than a heavy has

now im not a maths guy but mediums are the CLEAR winner for single player game play so anyone using the super tank divisions is just silly and wasting resources and if you want to play silly thats your right, but the rest of us shouldn't be forced to play your silly play style like that making them support battalions makes more sense in every way and if you dont like it get a mod to role back the change

[Fyrliel]

Originally posted by WalrusJones:

Originally posted by floss8:

funny how today front line tanks a nearly as heavy as a superheavy when fully kitted out.

???

70 tons kitted out versus 180 yes almost as heavy.

They were probably referring to the tortoise (78 tons) and the T-95 (95/86 tons) not the Maus/E-100.

[Big [REDACTED] Marty]

35 soft attack on the heavy? how about you use a howitzer