Marine division makeup question

[pmpdadypenguinmn]

Is there any downside to giving my marine divisions artillery? Or should it be strictly marines? And are there combat width penalties for marines?

[Wolff]

Nope, put two artillery with your marines and don't make your combat width over 20! Add recon and egineers and later on radio and field hospital :)

Edit: Magic numbers for HOI 4 is, 10 or 20 for combat width.

[Adam Apples]

I pretty much put arty in everything! I didn't appreciate it on my first play through but it's a game changer when you do :) ..

[Wolff]

Check out my favorite division on what I just posted. Called Expeditionary Forces :)

[Adam Apples]

Originally posted by Yukon:

Check out my favorite division on what I just posted. Called Expeditionary Forces :)

Sweet stats! I don't know what all the icons represent tho, I'm using the vanilla ones.

[Wolff]

Those are nato counters, its vanilla. You can change out the ugly symbols for the nato ones in your settings :)

[Adam Apples]

Originally posted by Yukon:

Those are nato counters, its vanilla. You can change out the ugly symbols for the nato ones in your settings :)

Oh wow, I thought it was a mod. Thanks :)

[Sir Garnet]

Can give the marines self-propelled artillery for the soft attack and armor , rocket artillery, & line artillery, which makes the support artillery slot useful for a unique support unit. I have seen, but have no personal experience with, a proposed 40 width Marine Division. 40 width is the minimum battle width I've seen on small islands, though 80 is the usual minimum.

[Bernie_Wiseman]

add logistic -> fondamental for low supply

[Clueless Disgrace]

The only reason you wouldn't want to put artillery in marine divisions is when you want to use marines the way they are intended for: Naval Invasion. Artillery brigades get huge penalties when involved in amphibious assaults, someone could do the math if instead of an arty brigade it is better to use another marine (or rather two, since an arty has 3 combat width).
But really, arty all the way anywhere else.

[Pippin123]

Out of curiosty, I did crunch some numbers.

I'm not 100% sure I accounted for everything, so here are my assumptions :

Amphibious landing (standard) : -70%

Additive modfiers :
Amphibious landing (Line Artillery) : -40%
Amphibious landing (Support Artillery) : 0%
Amphibious landing (Marines) : +50%

NB : There's a max penalty cap of -80%

Line Artillery Soft Attack modifier : +25%
Suppport Artillery Soft Attack modifier : -40%
Suppport Artillery Hard Attack modifier : -50%

'36 equipment :
Infantry Eq (Soft Attack / Hard Attack) : 6 / 1
Artillery Eq (Soft Attack / Hard Attack) : 30 / 2

Amphibious Landing :
10 Inf + Support Art : 15.0 Soft / 2.6 Hard
7 Inf + 2 Line Art + Support Art : 18.6 Soft / 2.1 Hard
10 Marines + Support Art : 45.0 Soft / 7.6 Hard
7 Marines + 2 Line Art + Support Art : 39.6 Soft / 5.6 Hard

So clearly, for amphibious landings, go marines only.

To fight on normal terrains, Rivers crossings, etc, the penalty are less severe , so in that case Line Artillery shines again.

[Wolff]

Thanks for posting those numbers. I prefer using artillery with them. My marines are used not just for amphibious landings and with advanced landing craft researched gives you +50% speed for invasion.

Link on my marine template.
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/268345649782704656/736451389350C6BDCB3E6AB6A0F43C68A53C5905/

[Pippin123]

Well, you can easily keep a small "can opener" task force of pure marines to grab ports, and then do the rest as you see fit.

[LtlMacMcG]

Originally posted by Suikotsu:

The only reason you wouldn't want to put artillery in marine divisions is when you want to use marines the way they are intended for: Naval Invasion. Artillery brigades get huge penalties when involved in amphibious assaults, someone could do the math if instead of an arty brigade it is better to use another marine (or rather two, since an arty has 3 combat width).
But really, arty all the way anywhere else.

only SP Arty....support arty is probably the single most useful support asset in the game, has no width, and no mechanized penalty.

[pmpdadypenguinmn]

Originally posted by Pippin123:

Out of curiosty, I did crunch some numbers.

I'm not 100% sure I accounted for everything, so here are my assumptions :

Amphibious landing (standard) : -70%

Additive modfiers :
Amphibious landing (Line Artillery) : -40%
Amphibious landing (Support Artillery) : 0%
Amphibious landing (Marines) : +50%

NB : There's a max penalty cap of -80%

Line Artillery Soft Attack modifier : +25%
Suppport Artillery Soft Attack modifier : -40%
Suppport Artillery Hard Attack modifier : -50%

'36 equipment :
Infantry Eq (Soft Attack / Hard Attack) : 6 / 1
Artillery Eq (Soft Attack / Hard Attack) : 30 / 2

Amphibious Landing :
10 Inf + Support Art : 15.0 Soft / 2.6 Hard
7 Inf + 2 Line Art + Support Art : 18.6 Soft / 2.1 Hard
10 Marines + Support Art : 45.0 Soft / 7.6 Hard
7 Marines + 2 Line Art + Support Art : 39.6 Soft / 5.6 Hard

So clearly, for amphibious landings, go marines only.

To fight on normal terrains, Rivers crossings, etc, the penalty are less severe , so in that case Line Artillery shines again.

Oh wow, thank you so much I've been scrounging the internet trying to find this information, you are awesome!

[Pippin123]

to be fair, there's so many variables at play that I don't really see how someone could make a coherent wiki about that.

A full estimate would need to take into account Doctrine and other Tech bonus and various equipment levels...