What is up with people and NATO Symbols

[μRachelMuseVTμ]

I was reading comments on a HOI4 video and everyone was complaining about no NATO symbols. The video is from a year ago but still, do people not realize NATO symbos are just stupid?

[def name = "Zach"]

Escrito originalmente por Gromov:

Wait what? No counters in HoI 4 at all???

First fail point right there.

Well if they added counters, relief...

Watch some vids and youll see what kind of 'counters' they use. They may or may not be up to your standards but they are still counters

[justDerrick]

Nato counters is all about Squad Leader for me.

Plus, it's just easier to see what you have in the stack.

[Private Snafu]

The NATO symbols are efficient and simple. They give planty of info in short time, they are far from stupid, hence they been desingned and accepted for use by military of major military powers. The pain for those who complain is that they simply cannot be bother to understand them. NATO symbols have extra benefit that they looks same in HoI 2, HoI3, HoI 4 and many other games.. so you don't need to learn each time what means each symbol.
And finally is better to have choice than be forcedto use spirites only or NATO... devs give you a choice so I am not sure what is cry about? Or it is just simply trolling.

[μRachelMuseVTμ]

Escrito originalmente por Lukfrey:

The NATO symbols are efficient and simple. They give planty of info in short time, they are far from stupid, hence they been desingned and accepted for use by military of major military powers. The pain for those who complain is that they simply cannot be bother to understand them. NATO symbols have extra benefit that they looks same in HoI 2, HoI3, HoI 4 and many other games.. so you don't need to learn each time what means each symbol.
And finally is better to have choice than be forcedto use spirites only or NATO... devs give you a choice so I am not sure what is cry about? Or it is just simply trolling.

No I was reading comments from one of PDX's old videos and people were complaining on an absurd level and I was wondering what the thoughts on it were, personaly I prefer the new icons, but I am glad that they have NATO symbols for that group, however the NATO group was being a bunch a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to PDX for not having NATO symbols in at the time

[Monster Fart]

Escrito originalmente por Stormcrusher13:

I was reading comments on a HOI4 video and everyone was complaining about no NATO symbols. The video is from a year ago but still, do people not realize NATO symbos are just stupid?

because if i wanted to play with horses, airplanes, tanks and other dumb looking sprites, i'd play chutes and ladders with my daughter or play monopoly with my wife and my in laws during some ♥♥♥♥♥ holiday.

i dont know about hoi4 to judge just yet, but im not buying at launch. will wait for the modders to come online and fix this bithc up like they fixed hoi3 and buy it at a discount. just like all games deserve to be purchased, on discount. and those dumb pre-order packages. wtf paradox? thats right, i want to purchase wall papers and an avatar for your forum for $10.

if I wanted to waste $10-$20 on cosmetic shti, i'd buy my wife some make up.

[def name = "Zach"]

Escrito originalmente por Monster Fart:

i dont know about hoi4 to judge just yet, but im not buying at launch. will wait for the modders to come online and fix this bithc up like they fixed hoi3 and buy it at a discount. just like all games deserve to be purchased, on discount. and those dumb pre-order packages. wtf paradox? thats right, i want to purchase wall papers and an avatar for your forum for $10.

if I wanted to waste $10-$20 on cosmetic shti, i'd buy my wife some make up.

Not sure what your issue is with the game.. Your post had nothing to do with the OP of NATO symbols.

Of course you dont have to preorder, and you CERTAINLY dont have to buy a version with additional silly things (i just bought the cheapest one). Paradox are merely offering something for people who have money to burn. It is only 40USD for the cheapest version which is very affordable (see Total War Warhammer at 80USD).
Note though, that PDS have delayed over a year to implement better systems and fix bugs, so its expected to not be as bad as previous releases

[Monster Fart]

the issue is how hoi4 got dumbed down. hoi3 had a sloppy release, patch after patch several dlcs later and a mod community that fixed the game up to where it should have been at release. and im talking about black ice hoi3 no that other dlc crap they brought out.

removing nato symbols while developing the game then bringing it back because they created a problem for themselves for no reason showed the intent.

[def name = "Zach"]

Escrito originalmente por Monster Fart:

the issue is how hoi4 got dumbed down. hoi3 had a sloppy release, patch after patch several dlcs later and a mod community that fixed the game up to where it should have been at release. and im talking about black ice hoi3 no that other dlc crap they brought out.

removing nato symbols while developing the game then bringing it back because they created a problem for themselves for no reason showed the intent.

They never removed NATO symbols... it was there quite early and thats because they implemented them there, not removed them some other time.

On the note of HOI3, it certainly is terrible in a lot of ways, and unfortunately even the BlackICE mod doesnt fix all of it, but HOI4 has fixed a lot of it. Some things might seem simplified (no real command structure), but it also complicates some things too, like the equipment and supply system. Needing ship factories to build ships, not just general IC. The concept of air and naval superiority, and NOT having a players AI-controlled aircraft use nukes.. A more advanced division designer with custom icons for different kinds. The overhauled peace system which was horrible in HOI3. Theres plenty of good here

[Bridger]

Escrito originalmente por Monster Fart:

the issue is how hoi4 got dumbed down

Dumbed down? You need to pay more attention. Reposting from an excellent post on the Paradox forums by Safe-Keeper:

The game world

Impassable terrain
HOI3: there were provinces you simply couldn't enter because their infrastructure level was below two.
HOI4: now you can enter any province, but some will have such a high attrition rate they are in practice not feasible to traverse.

Rivers
HOI3: the game only models rivers and straits.
HOI4: the game now has two kinds of rivers. Rivers can freeze during winter.


Diplomacy and politics

Coups, civil wars, and intervention
HOI3: civil wars are handled by historical events and decisions. You can stage coups in foreign countries. Intervention in civil wars is handled by events that do nothing but increase relations, or by lend-leasing abstracted "IC".
HOI4: now civil wars are a dynamic feature, which can theoretically break out anywhere. Intervention can take the form of actual supplies, planes, and other equipment that is physically sent to the recipient, which can make a significant difference if two minor countries without tanks of their own are fighting, and one of them can suddenly field T-34s.

Peace conferences
HOI3: come victory, winners enforce war goals, and territory is largelly divided by war goals set before the war, and who is occupying which provinces.
HOI4: now there is a peace conference system in which the victors take turns claiming the spoils of war, with various factors such as war score affecting who can claim what.

Factions and declarations of war
HOI3: there are only three factions, and if you join one, you're stuck in it permanently. Anyone can declare war provided their neutrality is sufficiently low and threat is sufficiently high.
HOI4: anyone can create factions, and what system of government you have now matters far more, thanks to such things as World Tension. Declarations of war require Casus Belli. You can 'defect from' factions if things are starting to go belly-up.

Leadership
HOI3: you assigned ministers, but your research and production body was represented by abstracted "leadership", which was spent on espionage, research, diplomacy and so on.
HOI4: you pick ministers as well as what companies and organisations to put in charge of research and production. Political capital (political power) is accumulated and spent to enforce decisions.


Industry

Factory construction
HOI3: you can build factories anywhere, even on tiny islands and in regions where nobody even lives.
HOI4: now you actually need people to work your factories, so the maximum number of factories you can build in a state is tied to its population density, and some areas, such as the aforementioned tiny islands, can't have industry at all.

Types of industry
HOI3: factories produce resources to generate abstracted "industrial capacity" which can be be used to build anything.
HOI4: now you have three types of industry: civilian, military and naval. Factories have to be assigned to build specifc items such as field hospitals, interceptors, infantry equipment, destroyers, and artillery guns.

Production and equipment
HOI3: abstracted "IC" is spent producing abstracted "reinforcements". Practical builds up over time and affects all units of a given type. For example, factories building level four tank divisions still benefit from practical acquired from building level one, two, and three tank divisions.
HOI4: now the game tracks subs, destroyers, aircraft, tanks, trucks and infantry gear packages individually. Divisions don't just regain "strength", but physically receive tanks, infantry gear, and so on. Practical builds up per unit, so switching from building a level one tank to a level two tank will hurt production efficiency. You can build various kinds of new vechiels, such as self-propelled artillery, using the chassis of existing vehicles.

Supply
HOI3: supply is generated in the capital only, and flows outwards to units according to a system that was not easy to manage, and not properly understood by players.
HOI4: now supply is generated by large cities, and the system is more readily understandable.


Military

Division designer
HOI3: your smallest building block is the brigade. You can prioritise divisions for upgrades and reinforcements, or deny them upgrades/reinforcements if you're running short.
HOI4: now the smallest building blocks are companies, and you can assign divisions support assets such as signal battalions or field hospitals. You have three levels of supply priority, not two. Divisions can be assigned custom icons. You have to spend strategic experience on building or editing division templates.

Divisions, navy and air force composition
HOI3: you have one kind of each unit -- one type of small tank, one type of fighter, one type of submarine, for example, and upgrades affect all units of this type. That is, you have "Interceptor wing level 1", which upgrades to "Interceptor wing Level 2". Individual units within divisions are abstracted into division upgrades and "strength". A tank division is for all intents and purposes a single unit, with organisation, strength, and various upgrades.
HOI4: every new upgrade is now a different vehicle; in effect, you can't build 100 level one interceptors and then upgrade them to level two interceptors. Units can be further customised by the variant system. Divisions now track individual pieces of equipment, tanks and whatnot within them, so a tank division, instead of just having 10 000 men and "100% strength", will have "10 000 men (with 1000 sets of infantry equipment), 4 KV-1s, 21 T-34s, 30 T-28s, 20 Self-Propelled 88mm AT guns, 22 Self-Propelled AA guns, 60 trucks, a field hospital, and a signal company".

Planes, submarines and destroyers
HOI3: aircraft, subs and destroyers are abstracted into "wings" and "flotillas" which are, for all intents and purposes, single units.
HOI4: each aircraft, sub and destroyer is now modelled individually, which allows for sub and destroyer flotillas to saturate naval zones more effectively, and aircraft to fight in a more realistic manner. Now, small groups of individual planes will dogfight, rather than just two "air wings".

AI and Battle Planners
HOI3: the AI was very rudimentary and could only be given very simple instructions. The Battle Planner only allowed you to draw on the map.
HOI4: now the battle planner is used to give instructions to the AI, allowing you to give them fairly complex instructions.

Operational warfare
HOI3: you can tell your troops to begin operations on the fly.
HOI4: now you have to give your men time to prepare for offensives, or they will not fight at full efficiency.

Amphibious invasions
HOI3: you could invade anywhere, whenever you wanted, range permitting, as long as you had at least one transport and one unit that could be carried on board.
HOI4: now you need naval superiority to launch the invasion, and the invasion force needs time to prepare. The invasion ships can be intercepted, unlike in HOI3 where you were guaranted to make it to shore once the invasion had started. Troops will be unable to fire on defenders while on their way to shore, but will still be fired upon.

Nuclear bombing
HOI3: you could drop the bomb whereever you wanted to, range permitting.
HOI4: now you need air superiority over the target region.

Your move chuckles.

[μRachelMuseVTμ]

Escrito originalmente por LGC Bridger:

Escrito originalmente por Monster Fart:

the issue is how hoi4 got dumbed down

Dumbed down? You need to pay more attention. Reposting from an excellent post on the Paradox forums by Safe-Keeper:

The game world

Impassable terrain
HOI3: there were provinces you simply couldn't enter because their infrastructure level was below two.
HOI4: now you can enter any province, but some will have such a high attrition rate they are in practice not feasible to traverse.

Rivers
HOI3: the game only models rivers and straits.
HOI4: the game now has two kinds of rivers. Rivers can freeze during winter.


Diplomacy and politics

Coups, civil wars, and intervention
HOI3: civil wars are handled by historical events and decisions. You can stage coups in foreign countries. Intervention in civil wars is handled by events that do nothing but increase relations, or by lend-leasing abstracted "IC".
HOI4: now civil wars are a dynamic feature, which can theoretically break out anywhere. Intervention can take the form of actual supplies, planes, and other equipment that is physically sent to the recipient, which can make a significant difference if two minor countries without tanks of their own are fighting, and one of them can suddenly field T-34s.

Peace conferences
HOI3: come victory, winners enforce war goals, and territory is largelly divided by war goals set before the war, and who is occupying which provinces.
HOI4: now there is a peace conference system in which the victors take turns claiming the spoils of war, with various factors such as war score affecting who can claim what.

Factions and declarations of war
HOI3: there are only three factions, and if you join one, you're stuck in it permanently. Anyone can declare war provided their neutrality is sufficiently low and threat is sufficiently high.
HOI4: anyone can create factions, and what system of government you have now matters far more, thanks to such things as World Tension. Declarations of war require Casus Belli. You can 'defect from' factions if things are starting to go belly-up.

Leadership
HOI3: you assigned ministers, but your research and production body was represented by abstracted "leadership", which was spent on espionage, research, diplomacy and so on.
HOI4: you pick ministers as well as what companies and organisations to put in charge of research and production. Political capital (political power) is accumulated and spent to enforce decisions.


Industry

Factory construction
HOI3: you can build factories anywhere, even on tiny islands and in regions where nobody even lives.
HOI4: now you actually need people to work your factories, so the maximum number of factories you can build in a state is tied to its population density, and some areas, such as the aforementioned tiny islands, can't have industry at all.

Types of industry
HOI3: factories produce resources to generate abstracted "industrial capacity" which can be be used to build anything.
HOI4: now you have three types of industry: civilian, military and naval. Factories have to be assigned to build specifc items such as field hospitals, interceptors, infantry equipment, destroyers, and artillery guns.

Production and equipment
HOI3: abstracted "IC" is spent producing abstracted "reinforcements". Practical builds up over time and affects all units of a given type. For example, factories building level four tank divisions still benefit from practical acquired from building level one, two, and three tank divisions.
HOI4: now the game tracks subs, destroyers, aircraft, tanks, trucks and infantry gear packages individually. Divisions don't just regain "strength", but physically receive tanks, infantry gear, and so on. Practical builds up per unit, so switching from building a level one tank to a level two tank will hurt production efficiency. You can build various kinds of new vechiels, such as self-propelled artillery, using the chassis of existing vehicles.

Supply
HOI3: supply is generated in the capital only, and flows outwards to units according to a system that was not easy to manage, and not properly understood by players.
HOI4: now supply is generated by large cities, and the system is more readily understandable.


Military

Division designer
HOI3: your smallest building block is the brigade. You can prioritise divisions for upgrades and reinforcements, or deny them upgrades/reinforcements if you're running short.
HOI4: now the smallest building blocks are companies, and you can assign divisions support assets such as signal battalions or field hospitals. You have three levels of supply priority, not two. Divisions can be assigned custom icons. You have to spend strategic experience on building or editing division templates.

Divisions, navy and air force composition
HOI3: you have one kind of each unit -- one type of small tank, one type of fighter, one type of submarine, for example, and upgrades affect all units of this type. That is, you have "Interceptor wing level 1", which upgrades to "Interceptor wing Level 2". Individual units within divisions are abstracted into division upgrades and "strength". A tank division is for all intents and purposes a single unit, with organisation, strength, and various upgrades.
HOI4: every new upgrade is now a different vehicle; in effect, you can't build 100 level one interceptors and then upgrade them to level two interceptors. Units can be further customised by the variant system. Divisions now track individual pieces of equipment, tanks and whatnot within them, so a tank division, instead of just having 10 000 men and "100% strength", will have "10 000 men (with 1000 sets of infantry equipment), 4 KV-1s, 21 T-34s, 30 T-28s, 20 Self-Propelled 88mm AT guns, 22 Self-Propelled AA guns, 60 trucks, a field hospital, and a signal company".

Planes, submarines and destroyers
HOI3: aircraft, subs and destroyers are abstracted into "wings" and "flotillas" which are, for all intents and purposes, single units.
HOI4: each aircraft, sub and destroyer is now modelled individually, which allows for sub and destroyer flotillas to saturate naval zones more effectively, and aircraft to fight in a more realistic manner. Now, small groups of individual planes will dogfight, rather than just two "air wings".

AI and Battle Planners
HOI3: the AI was very rudimentary and could only be given very simple instructions. The Battle Planner only allowed you to draw on the map.
HOI4: now the battle planner is used to give instructions to the AI, allowing you to give them fairly complex instructions.

Operational warfare
HOI3: you can tell your troops to begin operations on the fly.
HOI4: now you have to give your men time to prepare for offensives, or they will not fight at full efficiency.

Amphibious invasions
HOI3: you could invade anywhere, whenever you wanted, range permitting, as long as you had at least one transport and one unit that could be carried on board.
HOI4: now you need naval superiority to launch the invasion, and the invasion force needs time to prepare. The invasion ships can be intercepted, unlike in HOI3 where you were guaranted to make it to shore once the invasion had started. Troops will be unable to fire on defenders while on their way to shore, but will still be fired upon.

Nuclear bombing
HOI3: you could drop the bomb whereever you wanted to, range permitting.
HOI4: now you need air superiority over the target region.

Your move chuckles.

Thank you Bridger, to sum it up, the game has been made easier to understand, while maintaing complexity that new people can also understand and keep track of

[Private Snafu]

Thanks a lot Bridger for binging up that super post by Safe-Keeper!
Yes I do got my self the Marshal pre-order, yes I do have all previous HoI series, and still coz of my hype play HoI3.
Black Ice and Historical playsabality Mod, as any mod not xed a lot of issues, and created a lot of new ones, but than name me 1 game issues free! Where ALL players will be happy.
If you do think Monster Fart, that HoI4 will be to dum down game... than sure... you are master in strategy games, don't like all preaty looking things in game, have try in Modern Air and Naval Command :) but than 1st you will pay way more than 40 bucks... so your wife might have go on you coz u spending all her makeup moneys. And ofc you will have to deal with ONLY NATO symbols - still graet game but...

[Monster Fart]

Escrito originalmente por LGC Bridger:

Escrito originalmente por Monster Fart:

the issue is how hoi4 got dumbed down

Dumbed down? You need to pay more attention. Reposting from an excellent post on the Paradox forums by Safe-Keeper:

The game world

Impassable terrain
HOI3: there were provinces you simply couldn't enter because their infrastructure level was below two.
HOI4: now you can enter any province, but some will have such a high attrition rate they are in practice not feasible to traverse.

Rivers
HOI3: the game only models rivers and straits.
HOI4: the game now has two kinds of rivers. Rivers can freeze during winter.


Diplomacy and politics

Coups, civil wars, and intervention
HOI3: civil wars are handled by historical events and decisions. You can stage coups in foreign countries. Intervention in civil wars is handled by events that do nothing but increase relations, or by lend-leasing abstracted "IC".
HOI4: now civil wars are a dynamic feature, which can theoretically break out anywhere. Intervention can take the form of actual supplies, planes, and other equipment that is physically sent to the recipient, which can make a significant difference if two minor countries without tanks of their own are fighting, and one of them can suddenly field T-34s.

Peace conferences
HOI3: come victory, winners enforce war goals, and territory is largelly divided by war goals set before the war, and who is occupying which provinces.
HOI4: now there is a peace conference system in which the victors take turns claiming the spoils of war, with various factors such as war score affecting who can claim what.

Factions and declarations of war
HOI3: there are only three factions, and if you join one, you're stuck in it permanently. Anyone can declare war provided their neutrality is sufficiently low and threat is sufficiently high.
HOI4: anyone can create factions, and what system of government you have now matters far more, thanks to such things as World Tension. Declarations of war require Casus Belli. You can 'defect from' factions if things are starting to go belly-up.

Leadership
HOI3: you assigned ministers, but your research and production body was represented by abstracted "leadership", which was spent on espionage, research, diplomacy and so on.
HOI4: you pick ministers as well as what companies and organisations to put in charge of research and production. Political capital (political power) is accumulated and spent to enforce decisions.


Industry

Factory construction
HOI3: you can build factories anywhere, even on tiny islands and in regions where nobody even lives.
HOI4: now you actually need people to work your factories, so the maximum number of factories you can build in a state is tied to its population density, and some areas, such as the aforementioned tiny islands, can't have industry at all.

Types of industry
HOI3: factories produce resources to generate abstracted "industrial capacity" which can be be used to build anything.
HOI4: now you have three types of industry: civilian, military and naval. Factories have to be assigned to build specifc items such as field hospitals, interceptors, infantry equipment, destroyers, and artillery guns.

Production and equipment
HOI3: abstracted "IC" is spent producing abstracted "reinforcements". Practical builds up over time and affects all units of a given type. For example, factories building level four tank divisions still benefit from practical acquired from building level one, two, and three tank divisions.
HOI4: now the game tracks subs, destroyers, aircraft, tanks, trucks and infantry gear packages individually. Divisions don't just regain "strength", but physically receive tanks, infantry gear, and so on. Practical builds up per unit, so switching from building a level one tank to a level two tank will hurt production efficiency. You can build various kinds of new vechiels, such as self-propelled artillery, using the chassis of existing vehicles.

Supply
HOI3: supply is generated in the capital only, and flows outwards to units according to a system that was not easy to manage, and not properly understood by players.
HOI4: now supply is generated by large cities, and the system is more readily understandable.


Military

Division designer
HOI3: your smallest building block is the brigade. You can prioritise divisions for upgrades and reinforcements, or deny them upgrades/reinforcements if you're running short.
HOI4: now the smallest building blocks are companies, and you can assign divisions support assets such as signal battalions or field hospitals. You have three levels of supply priority, not two. Divisions can be assigned custom icons. You have to spend strategic experience on building or editing division templates.

Divisions, navy and air force composition
HOI3: you have one kind of each unit -- one type of small tank, one type of fighter, one type of submarine, for example, and upgrades affect all units of this type. That is, you have "Interceptor wing level 1", which upgrades to "Interceptor wing Level 2". Individual units within divisions are abstracted into division upgrades and "strength". A tank division is for all intents and purposes a single unit, with organisation, strength, and various upgrades.
HOI4: every new upgrade is now a different vehicle; in effect, you can't build 100 level one interceptors and then upgrade them to level two interceptors. Units can be further customised by the variant system. Divisions now track individual pieces of equipment, tanks and whatnot within them, so a tank division, instead of just having 10 000 men and "100% strength", will have "10 000 men (with 1000 sets of infantry equipment), 4 KV-1s, 21 T-34s, 30 T-28s, 20 Self-Propelled 88mm AT guns, 22 Self-Propelled AA guns, 60 trucks, a field hospital, and a signal company".

Planes, submarines and destroyers
HOI3: aircraft, subs and destroyers are abstracted into "wings" and "flotillas" which are, for all intents and purposes, single units.
HOI4: each aircraft, sub and destroyer is now modelled individually, which allows for sub and destroyer flotillas to saturate naval zones more effectively, and aircraft to fight in a more realistic manner. Now, small groups of individual planes will dogfight, rather than just two "air wings".

AI and Battle Planners
HOI3: the AI was very rudimentary and could only be given very simple instructions. The Battle Planner only allowed you to draw on the map.
HOI4: now the battle planner is used to give instructions to the AI, allowing you to give them fairly complex instructions.

Operational warfare
HOI3: you can tell your troops to begin operations on the fly.
HOI4: now you have to give your men time to prepare for offensives, or they will not fight at full efficiency.

Amphibious invasions
HOI3: you could invade anywhere, whenever you wanted, range permitting, as long as you had at least one transport and one unit that could be carried on board.
HOI4: now you need naval superiority to launch the invasion, and the invasion force needs time to prepare. The invasion ships can be intercepted, unlike in HOI3 where you were guaranted to make it to shore once the invasion had started. Troops will be unable to fire on defenders while on their way to shore, but will still be fired upon.

Nuclear bombing
HOI3: you could drop the bomb whereever you wanted to, range permitting.
HOI4: now you need air superiority over the target region.

Your move chuckles.

AWESOME!

[BlackSmoke 🏴‍☠]

NATO symbols are military symbols to maximize information on units. NATO symbols are splendid.

When Hearts of Iron I was published in 2.002, 14 years ago, most of people now complaining against NATO symbols perhaps were too young even to try to play a strategy game.

To read books, to get information is good for brain and for health. This will make you wiser. So try to learn and memorize NATO symbols or anything else... as a brain exercise. If people don't do brain exercise they will be like vegetable when older.

If you don't like NATO symbols, just keep it for yourself. Please don't share it if you think that they are stupid because people like me could think that you are calling us stupid.

I love NATO symbols and I'm not stupid. I'm much more updated than you, willing to learn much more than you, even having probably twice your age. Shame on you, a new brain and no wanting to use it.

Have a nice day.

P.D.:
35 years ago I was playing board games using NATO symbols, probably you even wasn't born. And probably, I'm part of old customers who permited Paradox to become a great game company, by buying their HoI I, HoI II, HoI III and now HoI IV.

[μRachelMuseVTμ]

Escrito originalmente por BlackSmoke:

NATO symbols are military symbols to maximize information on units. NATO symbols are splendid.

When Hearts of Iron I was published in 2.002, 14 years ago, most of people now claiming against NATO symbols perhaps were too young even to try to play a strategy game.

To read books, to get information is good for brain and for health. This will make you wiser. So try to learn and memorize NATO symbols or anything else... as a brain exercise. If people don't do brain exercise they will be like vegetable when older.

If you don't like NATO symbols, just keep it for yourself. Please don't share it if you think that they are stupid because people like me could think that you are calling us stupid.

I love NATO symbols and I'm not stupid. I'm much more updated than you, willing to learn much more than you, even having probably twice your age. Shame on you, a new brain and no wanting to use it.

Have a nice day.

P.D.:
35 years ago I was playing board games using NATO symbols, probably you even wasn't born. And probably, I'm part of old customers who permited Paradox to become a great game company, by buying their HoI I, HoI II, HoI III and now HoI IV.

Considering your atrocious grammar I highly doubt you're over the age of 16. You also sound very insecure about your intelligence. I don't care if people like NATO symbols, only why people were mad even though they're is the option for NATO and fake symbols. Either way NATO symbols or not, if you can win a battle then it really doesn't matter.

[BlackSmoke 🏴‍☠]

Escrito originalmente por Stormcrusher13:

Escrito originalmente por BlackSmoke:

NATO symbols are military symbols to maximize information on units. NATO symbols are splendid.

When Hearts of Iron I was published in 2.002, 14 years ago, most of people now claiming against NATO symbols perhaps were too young even to try to play a strategy game.

To read books, to get information is good for brain and for health. This will make you wiser. So try to learn and memorize NATO symbols or anything else... as a brain exercise. If people don't do brain exercise they will be like vegetable when older.

If you don't like NATO symbols, just keep it for yourself. Please don't share it if you think that they are stupid because people like me could think that you are calling us stupid.

I love NATO symbols and I'm not stupid. I'm much more updated than you, willing to learn much more than you, even having probably twice your age. Shame on you, a new brain and no wanting to use it.

Have a nice day.

P.D.:
35 years ago I was playing board games using NATO symbols, probably you even wasn't born. And probably, I'm part of old customers who permited Paradox to become a great game company, by buying their HoI I, HoI II, HoI III and now HoI IV.

Considering your atrocious grammar I highly doubt you're over the age of 16. You also sound very insecure about your intelligence. I don't care if people like NATO symbols, only why people were mad even though they're is the option for NATO and fake symbols. Either way NATO symbols or not, if you can win a battle then it really doesn't matter.

Te puedo contestar en castellano perfecto, si lo deseas. Existe un problema con las nuevas generaciones de jóvenes, y estriba en que no quieren usar el cerebro, tan solo ver gráficos bonitos. Las nuevas tendencias en desarrollo de juegos se basan mayoritariamente en juegos fáciles de usar, con curvas de aprendizaje simples. Deberíais avergonzaros de no querer usar el cerebro.

English Is not my native language. I'm glad to speak perfect castilian and not english. Your ego looks like inmense, but there are more languages than english. I don't like english at all.

And again, probably I have twice your age (50+). Understood? Ok. End.