Help with Japan

[Veniczar B. Fontana]

Hi guys. I haven't played HoI4 since last year and decided to give it another try with BBA. Italy was a country I always enjoyed playing due to having a strong navy, and (compared to minors) a strong army and airforce at the start of the game.

Now I try to play Japan, I did it a few times in the past but... Wow. With no step back logistics, man the gun fuels system and some weird decisions it never felt harder than this.

The focus tree looks so weak compared to the italian's one. National spirit are really putting you behind on everything.

And China got much stronger now that you have to cope with -50% attack and defence at the start of the war.

I wanted to enjoy the new navy and airforce system but I don't see anyway I'd be able to have a strong IJN. Yamato is definitely out of reach for me, as are most aircrafts.

Did I miss something ? Some strategy to get easily China ? At the start of the game I disbanded tanks and motorized divisions to get trucks for logistics, and tanks for garrisons. I read light tanks are kind of OP since no step back for garrison work (low cost, high hardness). And trucks cost too much to build good motorized units anyway + Japan has not much oil.

Instead of these I built standard 7/2 inf divisions + marine divisions to attack the coast line. I even created collaboration governments in China to lower the surrender treshold. Still it's a real slog.

Thanks in advance for any advice !

[Icevail]

Well, you don't have to deal with the -50% debuff if you just wait for a bit, the one of the two chinas will provoke japan into war with an national focus/event, which gives free war goals on them and to nationalist china, the marco polo event debuff won't trigger with those wargoals.

You can play historically to a point you create the co-prosperity sphere faction (So the chinese faction will be formed), but don't trigger the marco polo bridge event through your focus tree, focus on something else while waiting, like building more planes and airfields for the attack.

As for the infantry template, try to keep your infantry template at 15 width, the 7+2 is no longer that viable option due to the changes made in logistics/battle system and china is just disaster for supply, smaller units fare better in there with proper air support.

As for the navy game, subs have been nerfed a lot, so you can't wreck the allies that easily with just those alone anymore in head on combat, and subs no longer grant the same amount of naval supremacy as they used to, you need big ships for that.

Air game also has gone through some changes, you can't just nuke the fleets with naval bombers and call it a day, the ships now swat those planes from the sky like flies.

Ideally as japan, you want to knock chinese united front out of the equation as fast as possible once the war starts, so you can focus on preparing to fight the allies without having worry about losing manpower and equipment while being bogged down in china's supply hell.

[drewbstar]

Japan is a tough nation to start with. A small economy, an early war, and a hard enemy. You need to use everything at your disposal to win, as the longer things take the harder they get.

China is a difficult country to take. Poor logistics, very large, mostly mountains, and a defensive war bonus which means you have to take (almost) the whole thing.

There are some advantages that work for you here. Their navy is non-existant, air force is rather weak, and army is also debuffed and constrainted but an even weaker economy. The logistic situation can also work in your favor, as you can use your tac bombers to strat bomb them and push forward.

-Invade early as you can. The earlier the better, as they'll have less time to stockpile guns. Also means the Allies won't have as much time to support them via focus.

-Use naval support. When trying to take Beijing, park some of your navy off the coast. Free -25% debuff to the enemy makes your battles much easier. Similar for any southern naval invasions.

-Naval invade frequently. You don't even need to push far inland, you just need to split their forces. Use naval/air support to land, push a few tiles up (to spread the frontline) and hold. Keep pushing with your main force until you can link up. You want at least 2-3 landings in the south/from Taiwan to get them properly split.

-ENCIRCLEMENTS. The most important thing for winning is to encircle the enemy. You're never going to make them run out of manpower. You need to make them run out of guns. A lot of their industry is concentrated to the east, meaning that you should take it early.

-Avoid common pitfalls. Don't forget to train more divisions, you need more than you start with once the frontline expands. China is weak industrially so cheap inf divisions are fine (plus use few resources) so get some to hold the line. You generally want to push with tanks but China is so weak you can get away with using heavy inf/arty. Once you have some IC/research, cheap light divisions can also work, as they don't have the heavy weapons to counter.

-Going historical gives you some debuffs to slow you down. Spam the decisions to lower it ASAP, optional to also get "free" PP with the Panay incident.

-Get supremacy of wills ASAP to give your troops the buff they need to push. It's seriously OP.

-You can change your doctrine, I'd recommend going SF as it helps get you the soft attack you need to push against the org walls of China early.

-7/2s have been nerfed (again), look up guides on new template widths. Mountains are now optimally divided by 25, so use a ~25 width mountaineer division for more optimal results.

[Zohan Dwir]

I found Japan very easy to play with. Don't wardec, wait for event and then you have war cause with China at no debuff. Don't go fight the Allies, do Koda faction and you're neutral and ready to pounce on China. As of logistics, you can always strengthen the hubs with additional trucks and for me it was OK together with a bit of rail connection building. You can land naval forces (few marines divisions help a lot) into Chinese coast and weaken their line, so you grind them on land, do some naval invasions, taking their towns, more grinding on the land, more naval action... evnetually they'll collapse.

[Veniczar B. Fontana]

Thank you all for your kind answers. I didn't know or remembered Japan could just wait for China to taunt before invading ! I should have done that...

I won against china, it took me up to 1940 for this. I wasn't help by a bug which prevented some units to change armies or be assigned to a naval invasion or land attack plan.

Anyway now I'm in 1942 and I hope I'm ready to fight the brits. But having so few screens as Japan is not going to help haha !

Another question. Do you think there's an interest trying a coordinated strike on Hawaï, like Pearl Harbor IRL ? Will the AI have any fleet here ?

I found there's no way for my bombers even heavy ones to get the range to bomb Hawaï so I guess I must rely only on carrier naval bombers which aren't that great IMHO.

Also I didn't bother with Yamato and Musashi, using instead the carrier focus tree. When I last played the game CV were overpowered, so did it change, are BBs and SHBBs needed to win ?

[󠀡󠀡󠀡⁧⁧Myrkkysieni]

Originally posted by Veniczar B. Fontana:

Another question. Do you think there's an interest trying a coordinated strike on Hawaï, like Pearl Harbor IRL ? Will the AI have any fleet here ?

I tried to RP Pearl Harbor scenario once - the planes didn't manage to sink anything. I guess nothing was there, or the AI immediately set them on missions.

Would be nice to at the very least have some small event for it, considering the historical importance of it.

[Road Animal]

You can make it a lot easier for yourself , change all templates to the main 24W Infantry template , frees up trucks and tanks for storage , trucks for supply , gets rid of weak templates like cavalry and garrison units , streamlines production.
Do escalations , but dont do Ichi Go until at least % 80 China capitulation , do not declare on Philippines keep war goal until after you have secured Indochina , India , Dutch east indies and British Malaysia Australia and NZ , and every Island the allies own , own the whole Pacific before declaring on USA , then take all their Islands too ,Hawaii and Attu Give them zero bases in the Pacific.
Then launch from Attu to Alaska , fight way through Canada USA Mexico and then again take all Islands around USA give them zero bases , take Greenland Icland and from there to UK.
Only other template I made was just to add artillery to the original 24W saving as new , I only used two templates for whole game , started Medium tank template late 42W , and upgraded to Mec later , this happens while starting fight with USA.
Focus etc should be pretty clear , Im not posting a guide , an over all strategy that kicks ass , the starting template is very good

[Road Animal]

The other thing I should add , is im building train tracks everywhere I need them , keep good supply is key to steamrolling everyone , hell with just original template I steamroll USA Canada and Mexico at same time from Alaska with just 5 armies , starting with one army , then as I get down coast securing more ports add armies , by the time attacking on USA soil 5 armies set up on front , I had plenty of fighters too 4.5 K place several K in reserve , again build train tracks to level 5 everywhere you advance , later when attacking USA etc I use the continuous focus construction and engineering , that is key you always have better supply than the enemy make sure to have air superiority too.

[Road Animal]

Very bad idea to keep the truck and tank templates , costs vital mils and production , as soon as you change out those two truck templates for infantry , there is your truck supply for battle right there , and you can put field marshal on 3 truck icon for supplying all armies under him.
This creates steamroll , if you had tanks and mobile infantry in your army you will struggle badly to supply them and they are useless with no supply , same with fuel , just dont do it , I do not need to trade for oil whole game, only minimal rubber and aluminium for planes and support eqt early game.
Streamline streamline production all the way is key with Japan and build train tracks capture ports and hubs , build level 1 port if you slow down , helps hugely and is far quicker than supply hubs which you will only need build in really bogged down stale mates , you should be able to play Japan without building one

[Road Animal]

I have only just perfected this strategy , been playing for years and used to do guides and help with many things in hoi4 , it came about thinking specifically about how to take USA , and was one of best games iv had , it was strange , with this strategy I did not have a single naval battle whole game because I denied all naval bases from allies , which gave USA few bases to operate from , I could have had naval conflict taking last USA bases but it did not eventuate.
I am sure there are a tone of questions re many other aspects , research , focus tree , production , specific strategies. , I do not want to be writing a guide but can answer some questions if anyone wants to know , its your build do what you want , the streamlining and supply is key , I only attack China with the divisions you start with , I train no new divisions , also key to stock supply , your logistics window should be green all the way down all the time , this is powerful , good supply and reserve stock is potent in any game.

[Road Animal]

Specific answer to OP , the Japanese navy is strong enough at game start to never need more ships , I just trickle DD for screens with docks I have , the key to navy in any game is upgrading all stats , torps , critical hit , ladder etc.... strengthen what you have , again streamline costs.
Same with USA , strong as hell at game start if you play USA.
I put all docks I can on convoys with any nation asap , full , or even two lines of convoys until Im up past 1.5 k as a base line , you never want to run out of convoys game over.
Japan focus tree is really strong , not weak as you say in OP , supremacy of will , free war economy and total mobilisation , make sure to do Spiritual mobilisation right after national defence or your man power will be killed.
The focus tree is also streamlined , you can put PP into other things like military and Silent work horse , and with high stability and war support and the fact you are fascist Japan is brutally strong played right , as good as Germany or USA

[Road Animal]

I have never followed a guide , I hate following a damn script , you are not playing or thinking for yourself , you are playing someone elses game , the whole point of strategy games is to come up with your own strategy , Its ok to look at others ideas and take something from it , but these youtubers , you have to do these 100 steps in this order or the strategy wont work BS lol come on , just play the game , think overall strategy , ie my one example here , just streamline , green logistics window , good supply , and you can apply that basic 101 concept to any nation , any game and be strong , people make the mistake of trying to have too many templates too many things produced at same time too much time and money spent on too many directions , you can master this with any nation

[Road Animal]

I have done all the speed run stuff , guides etc for those that want to know how I take out allies with Italy by 1937 for , that has changed since latest updates , I no longer like playing Italy because of the compulsary crap divisions you can not change or delete , I will look at how to deal with it some time , like setting up a suicide to make them get killed off , encircled or something after I have secured what I need , but somewhat killed Italy for me as it goes against my basic strategy for any nation , , maybe just use the rubbish templates for garrison or something to get them the hell out of your armies and front line , interesting the comparison of Italy vs Japan focus tree being weaker for Japan , I say the complete opposite Italy is as weak as hell now , I Have not tried it much t make full judgement however

[Road Animal]

Dont forget to prioritise guns for steel first 30 PP , second play though with above strategy I forgot until June 1937 , dumb ass , too easy to forget in initial setup from day one