No manual?

[Der_Richter]

So... Just got this to replace HoI2, as seen in my other thread. But lifting this out to a new one, to highlight: Is there no manual? As in a full, written manual? Or am i blind and missing it? If there is none, then that is a bloody disgrace! A game meant to last 500+ hours with a lot of depth, is not complete without a proper reference manual. I don't dabble with tutorials, i research manuals and refer back to them, for accurate information. It's bad enough that they seemingly took away the possibility of a physical copy (forcing me to buy on Steam), which also is a disgrace, but now i can not seem to find a manual at all, even a non-printed one.

[GIJoe597]

According to experts, manuals are a thing of the past. Only us old dinosuars want manuals. Apparantly, in this new day and age of releasing games with missing features or incomplete, a manual would be out of date as soon as it was released. "DLC" will add stuff to the game which makes a "manual" obsolete.

Now, dev companies rely on the good graces of consumers to update a "wiki". Not only do inferior products ship now, but they have conned the masses in to being the manual
makers/keepers.

No boxing costs, no shipping costs, no printing or typing costs, same prices. Win/win for the game companies.

Welcome to the 21st century. 07

[Rabob]

Watch gameplay/tutorial videos maybe?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfaoOhJU64g
I prefer that over text manuals myself. For overall questions the wiki is ok.

If you are having (a lot of) trouble with stuff. Add me on steam, we can voice chat while you stream the game and I can give you some tips and tricks etc to get you started

[awkwardmoment]

wow, flashback to 1995! written manual bahahaha hold on, its going to be faxed to your pager!

[Der_Richter]

It's not that i have problems, or rather expect to... The concepts are basically the same across Paradox titles, so it is easy to adapt. In my case going from HoI2 to this, skipping 3 largely (but having a respectable 1000s of hours in HoI1/HoI2, in the past) might be a bit more obscure maybe, but it looks straightforward enough on first glance. What i do feel is i am being robbed at the ability to have a printed manual next to me while playing, not for learning but for reference. Paradox prides themselves on depth and simulation, and thus i liken their products to some of the finest games in the "deeper" genre (read: Grigsby et al). Releasing a game without a manual is however unheard of in those circles!

I have just about accepted not having physical media (in itself a shame, as boxed is always better, both for actually owning something and for looking nice) and o having to resort to a tablet next to the PC for PDF-manuals. Not as nice, but i could live with it. Now however, they are taking the manual away all together!? This is not a shooter... This is supposed to be a grand strategy simulation. Thus, i liken it to releasing something like 3DStudioMax or AutoCad without manuals in comparison with Windows Paint, which doesn't need one :)

[Der_Richter]

Originally posted by awkwardmoment:

wow, flashback to 1995! written manual bahahaha hold on, its going to be faxed to your pager!

Yeah. Try to get around to faxing one, when you're done waiting 6 months on that DLC you need to make your game work as intended. Don't forget to buy all the cosmetic things you should have gotten in the package from the start, as it was already made but held back for more pennies, while you wait for that. Or rather, rent it, as you have no physical media so you may never own it. While i wait for that fax i might dig up a 90s masterpiece such as something from the Campaign series (i love Tiller games) that has a huge box on my shelf that looks wonderful, and printed and illustrated manual with REAL articles on the scenario backgrounds written by military historians, and plenty of nice illustrations. Should keep me busy, while you look at that dry Wiki page :)

[Blaze]

Originally posted by Rabob:

Watch gameplay/tutorial videos maybe?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfaoOhJU64g
I prefer that over text manuals myself. For overall questions the wiki is ok.

If you are having (a lot of) trouble with stuff. Add me on steam, we can voice chat while you stream the game and I can give you some tips and tricks etc to get you started :AOEKnight:

i would like that myself i know the basics but lack some strategy

[Der_Richter]

Originally posted by Marcus Aurelius:

Yeah physical media is dead and buried and even PDF versions of physical media are gone. Though im surprised they don't sell manual DLCs LOL...

Paradox DO have eBook DLCs though, right? For EU4? Like the "Wealth of nations"-one... Not exactly manuals, but close.

[Bridger]

Since nobody has been kind enough to help, here's a link to the wiki: http://www.hoi4wiki.com/Hearts_of_Iron_4_Wiki/

It's exactly the same as a manual, it's just broken up the chapters into different pages which are easy to search for and link between. It is as complete (if not more so) than a written manual would have been.

People in other threads as well as this one have said the wiki is incomplete. This is rubbish. it was 85%+ complete on launch by the dev team themselves, and has been finished by a combination of dev team and community.

I challenge anyone to provide me with a question about the HOI4 game mechanics that the wiki doesn't answer. If I can find the answer I'll add it to the wiki myself.

[Der_Richter]

Originally posted by LGC Bridger:

Since nobody has been kind enough to help, here's a link to the wiki: http://www.hoi4wiki.com/Hearts_of_Iron_4_Wiki/

It's exactly the same as a manual, it's just broken up the chapters into different pages which are easy to search for and link between. It is as complete (if not more so) than a written manual would have been.

People in other threads as well as this one have said the manual is incomplete. This is rubbish. it was 85%+ complete on launch by the dev team themselves, and has been finished by a combination of dev team and community.

I challenge anyone to provide me with a question about the HOI4 game mechanics that the wiki doesn't answer. If I can find the answer I'll add it to the wiki myself.

Thanks for adding the link to the thread. Even if i still disagree with the sentiment of using a community wiki to replace a written and authored manual. A manual completes a product like this for me, perhaps going back to my baord gaming days... It is not just the information, it is the format of it, the illustrations and in good cases, the extra background detail or additional writing. It completes the product. A Wiki is just a soulless stats-register for the obsessive number crunchers.

Also, i like to hold a printed manual in my hand and read it while having a cup of coffee in my garden for instance. Arguably i could read the wiki on my tablet, but that is rather dry reading...

[Bridger]

Originally posted by Der_Richter:

A Wiki is just a soulless stats-register for the obsessive number crunchers.

How many game wiki's have you used? The vast majority of them are formatted in a very similar way to a manual in my experience.

You are correct that a professional writer could produce a more enjoyable read, but it would also take an exceptionally long time and a lot of resources. It's taken me at least 30 hours of research and writing to put together my newbie guide on just the basics of the game. Granted, I'm writing for a video so there is more to think about, but the kind of thing you ask for is not cheap or easy.

I also understand your desire for it. I remember how much I enjoyed reading the strategy guide/manaul for Rise of Nations. That thing was filled with great insights from the developers about their design choices and goals. It really piqued my interest. But it was also some 200+ pages and probably took 2 people at least 4-6 months of dedicated work. If you're doing a cost/benefit analysis on "manual vs. wiki" the wiki would win hands down. Only a very small portion of their audience cares deeply for a manual, and the wiki is technically superior in a number of key ways (it's updatable, linkable, and searchable).

Also, i like to hold a printed manual in my hand and read it while having a cup of coffee in my garden for instance. Arguably i could read the wiki on my tablet, but that is rather dry reading...

I certainly understand that desire, but I again don't think that wiki's need to be any more dry than a manual. There are even all kinds of images that the devs have put up that cannot be found anywhere else. For example, the map on this page:

http://www.hoi4wiki.com/Construction
http://www.hoi4wiki.com/images/5/54/Building_slot_map.png

This thing is enormous, and it's created directly from the game files.

Here's another great page filled with images detailing the information being discussed:
http://www.hoi4wiki.com/User_interface

It really does seem to be similary formatted to a manual of the old days as I see it.

[Bernie]

Well thanks. Saved me some money. No manual = No purchase, some of old guys have been gaiming since the 80's, if gamers stop buying games without written manuals that can be referenced during game play (video usally can not) I bet the developers will start providing written documentation to their software like is required of all I.T. work. The problem with most wiki's is, they are not easily printed like most pdf's can be.

[76561198006416723]

i don't own the game so i can't check myself, but isn't there any sort of digital manual? many other steam games have it. right-click on the game in your steam library, see if there's a "manual" entry or stuff


edit: apparently there isn't, no manual is listed in the store page

[Hero123]

No Manual is proof the Developers know this game is not complete with so many problems with ai division spam, peace conferences that give your allies areas that your troops fought for and occupied while your allies did nothing amd endless ai invasions,etc. A Manual would be provided if the game was actually finished.

[lukas]

@Hero123: No, they just decided again a manual, since it would be outdated after a couple of months anyway. (That's what happened with EU4 for instance.)

[Donatedelk]

I do prefer manuals but tutorials provide most of the needed info for the game, the rest is usually discovered through trial and error, as well as discovery