How to counter the Soviet Union

[YT.ScatterbrainGamingandModels]

Hi, I wasked just seeing if there were any ways to totally shut down the Soviet Union. By the way I'm asking if there was a PERSON playing as the soviets.. not ai.

[Innese]

I've done well against the Soviets using only mounted troops. Mounted troops with supply support can run circles around the Soviets, even in the winter.

[Včelí medvídek]

Hehe, switching sides with your mp buddy? How it went?:-)

Anyway, it depend on country you are playing for, but if the Soviet player is good he should not lose against any country on world tbh. Only equal (or superior) is US but they have disadvantage before enter the war and has to rely on allies long time not mention necessity of naval trade while Soviet cna get all on same continent (generaly).

[YT.ScatterbrainGamingandModels]

Originally posted by Včelí medvídek:

Hehe, switching sides with your mp buddy? How it went?:-)

Anyway, it depend on country you are playing for, but if the Soviet player is good he should not lose against any country on world tbh. Only equal (or superior) is US but they have disadvantage before enter the war and has to rely on allies long time not mention necessity of naval trade while Soviet cna get all on same continent (generaly).

LOL well he ditched our last game. He claims to have some ultimate counter to the Soviet Union.. trying to get what he might be planning =P

[Včelí medvídek]

as Japan he ahs no chance until some late game - if everything else scary you jsut fortify coast with about 3-5 infantry divisions with artillery in each small province - just several coast forts and one or two land fort for some outsmarting paradrops (they has no good target beside vladivostok to get some supply so even if they would drop behind your lines they will suffer huge attrition, you cna just keep some mobile calvalry force nearby to crush such effort. Yes this take kinda lot of effort but its imprenetable.

Also if he dont declare war on china he lacks posibilities to expand, if do, he has no chance fight on two fronts.

Best for you is start boost communism in China since 1.1.1936 so you get it to faction if you botha re at war with Japan..

Maybe only thing that comes to my mind is if he try to outsmart you by move all units to Italy and Germany to strike together with AI during Barbarrossa - though it will nto do him so much good becuase of supply limits anyway and beside that you can defend and field way more troops in Europe too.

SSSR is realy hard nut to crack if played by human and I dont think he can come with something so amazing to just remove all advantages you have as Soviet over Japan - just dont hesitate go after him aggresively since beginning, you ahve no reason to wait and if you manage drive him of mainland he generaly lost (or ahs huge advantage for long time)

[deadsanta]

I saw someone did an early invasion with Germany, and by early I mean like late 1937, with Paris gone by 1936. At that point USSR just doesn't have the equipment or infra to field any sort of decent army and Germany rolls right through Moscow and pretty much gg. I think they had France coup early 1936 which puts national unity down low and lets germany win in a few weeks. Then after a few months to re-org and destroy Poland, by war justify, not by national ideas, they roll up to border and war justify USSR.

[YT.ScatterbrainGamingandModels]

Are there any other nations or strategies that could pose a threat to the SSSR? Just curious.

[Včelí medvídek]

Originally posted by deadsanta:

I saw someone did an early invasion with Germany, and by early I mean like late 1937, with Paris gone by 1936. At that point USSR just doesn't have the equipment or infra to field any sort of decent army and Germany rolls right through Moscow and pretty much gg. I think they had France coup early 1936 which puts national unity down low and lets germany win in a few weeks. Then after a few months to re-org and destroy Poland, by war justify, not by national ideas, they roll up to border and war justify USSR.

Depend, if they can safely move forces from east - starting army of SSSR is way bigger than Germany can field so soon. But yeah good Germany has some possibilites, not so much for Japan palyer (if they play 1v1)

[deadsanta]

Originally posted by Včelí medvídek:

Originally posted by deadsanta:

I saw someone did an early invasion with Germany, and by early I mean like late 1937, with Paris gone by 1936. At that point USSR just doesn't have the equipment or infra to field any sort of decent army and Germany rolls right through Moscow and pretty much gg. I think they had France coup early 1936 which puts national unity down low and lets germany win in a few weeks. Then after a few months to re-org and destroy Poland, by war justify, not by national ideas, they roll up to border and war justify USSR.

Depend, if they can safely move forces from east - starting army of SSSR is way bigger than Germany can field so soon. But yeah good Germany has some possibilites, not so much for Japan palyer (if they play 1v1)

They have a big army, but they have no guns for them, they get out of supply so fast its silly. Combine with some bombing and they can't train any new troops without killing their existing troops. Basically, once an early German invasion starts, USSR is stuck with whatever army they have, whereas Germany can keep training units because their economy is like 10x USSR's at game start, plus French factories.

Edit: And if they pull the troops off Japan, then that's just a cakewalk for Japan to take dozens of provinces from USSR, it makes things that much harder, and if you've moved industry to the Urals, you can't really give up that land either.

[YT.ScatterbrainGamingandModels]

Originally posted by deadsanta:

Originally posted by Včelí medvídek:

Depend, if they can safely move forces from east - starting army of SSSR is way bigger than Germany can field so soon. But yeah good Germany has some possibilites, not so much for Japan palyer (if they play 1v1)

They have a big army, but they have no guns for them, they get out of supply so fast its silly. Combine with some bombing and they can't train any new troops without killing their existing troops. Basically, once an early German invasion starts, USSR is stuck with whatever army they have, whereas Germany can keep training units because their economy is like 10x USSR's at game start, plus French factories.

Edit: And if they pull the troops off Japan, then that's just a cakewalk for Japan to take dozens of provinces from USSR, it makes things that much harder, and if you've moved industry to the Urals, you can't really give up that land either.

Yeah i noticed that, honestly I usually just go nutso on gun production right off the bat... i'm talking like two lines just jammed pack with orders xD

[YT.ScatterbrainGamingandModels]

Also I have a question, if you don't purge anyone and replace Stalin with Trotesky, what are the drawbacks?

[Exarch_Alpha]

Good question, was wondering that too. It kinda sucks losing the generals and advisors SU has, Tukhachevsky in particular as the extra combat width should be pretty good for them. Also because he was innocent and dead because he wasn´t friends with some of the idiots that Stalin liked.

[Včelí medvídek]

Originally posted by deadsanta:

Originally posted by Včelí medvídek:

Depend, if they can safely move forces from east - starting army of SSSR is way bigger than Germany can field so soon. But yeah good Germany has some possibilites, not so much for Japan palyer (if they play 1v1)

They have a big army, but they have no guns for them, they get out of supply so fast its silly. Combine with some bombing and they can't train any new troops without killing their existing troops. Basically, once an early German invasion starts, USSR is stuck with whatever army they have, whereas Germany can keep training units because their economy is like 10x USSR's at game start, plus French factories.

Edit: And if they pull the troops off Japan, then that's just a cakewalk for Japan to take dozens of provinces from USSR, it makes things that much harder, and if you've moved industry to the Urals, you can't really give up that land either.

Actualy not.

I will jsut pick of some facts:

1) SSSR has larger starting industry (more factories) than germany, not opposite.

2) Conquer France at 1936 is NOT easy and direct task. You need to war Benelux as well first to be able access it. Beside France can offer very good resistance as their army at thsi point is mroe than equal germany.

3) You mentioned coup but that will create fascist nation with only 1 division (as France is close to zero fascist at that time) and also they get all France after war is over so Germany has no benefit from this (only chance they can imidietly start new war against new fascist nation to annex it)

4) This all will cost you lot of political power and complciate political focuses like Demand Chechoslovakia.

5) it is not possible invite Japan AI to Axis early as there is -100 penaltyso they not help Germnay from east.

6) If SSSR player is not blind he see your actions and approach since first war starts - best bet for him is jsut wait fro war with france, invade Poland and overrun Germany with 2-3x bigger army than Germany has at this point and locked most of it on west.

7) Big war tension so soon very likely mobilize Allies against Germany too. Overall Germany does not want war with Allies too soon as they are simply not ready to war on more fronts, especialy with dedicated Soviets...

[Včelí medvídek]

Originally posted by Shadow Hunter:

Also I have a question, if you don't purge anyone and replace Stalin with Trotesky, what are the drawbacks?

Not tried it myself but jsut from ingame description is clear that:
-you will be in serious civil war you need to win
-Trotsky make his own purge with similar results (on most ministres etc are conditions both for not purged by Stalin nor Trotsky)

[deadsanta]

Originally posted by Včelí medvídek:

Originally posted by deadsanta:

They have a big army, but they have no guns for them, they get out of supply so fast its silly. Combine with some bombing and they can't train any new troops without killing their existing troops. Basically, once an early German invasion starts, USSR is stuck with whatever army they have, whereas Germany can keep training units because their economy is like 10x USSR's at game start, plus French factories.

Edit: And if they pull the troops off Japan, then that's just a cakewalk for Japan to take dozens of provinces from USSR, it makes things that much harder, and if you've moved industry to the Urals, you can't really give up that land either.

Actualy not.

I will jsut pick of some facts:

1) SSSR has larger starting industry (more factories) than germany, not opposite.

2) Conquer France at 1936 is NOT easy and direct task. You need to war Benelux as well first to be able access it. Beside France can offer very good resistance as their army at thsi point is mroe than equal germany.

3) You mentioned coup but that will create fascist nation with only 1 division (as France is close to zero fascist at that time) and also they get all France after war is over so Germany has no benefit from this (only chance they can imidietly start new war against new fascist nation to annex it)

4) This all will cost you lot of political power and complciate political focuses like Demand Chechoslovakia.

5) it is not possible invite Japan AI to Axis early as there is -100 penaltyso they not help Germnay from east.

6) If SSSR player is not blind he see your actions and approach since first war starts - best bet for him is jsut wait fro war with france, invade Poland and overrun Germany with 2-3x bigger army than Germany has at this point and locked most of it on west.

7) Big war tension so soon very likely mobilize Allies against Germany too. Overall Germany does not want war with Allies too soon as they are simply not ready to war on more fronts, especialy with dedicated Soviets...

1) No they don't, they have like 8-10 more civilian factories, and 4 less military facs. It's the military that matters, especially since USSR start in a civilian economy and have penalties to political power. Germs start in a war mobil economy, don't need to build as many civ facs.

1a) Germs can immediately get another 10 military and 40 civ facs by taking the easy german or ally lands, belgium, netherlands.

2) Early conquest of france is simple, just go around the line, Italy will help you, or should, in any multiplayer game. You know we are talking multi yes?

3) The coup comes after a month or so of facist political stuff, france loses several territories to it, and even a few losses equal a great decrease in political unity. I have seen it done, it works, OP stuff.

4) You have political power to burn as Hitler, and chech is always AI, you can take that whenever you want.

5)Again this is a multiplayer game, I think you only play solo, Japan is down to attack no matter if he has an invite or not, and world tension gets crazy fast when Germany starts early.

6)USSR attacking Poland means he's just wasted his limited political power on a justify, most likely, and now Germany gets to crush his army right on the border, in his main airspace, and far from Russian winter, right after USSR burns through most of his equipment, but before he can get his economy rolling. Yeah, great plan lol.

7) It doesn't matter if Allies mobilize soon, France will be gone in a few months, USA has zero troops for like 3 years, and is also hamstrung by political influence penalties. As long as you avoid 75% world tension, you are fine.

8) Oh yeah, forgot: Stalin needs to purge ASAP or he gets a revolution that ends his game around 1938, so the officer corps is gone and all his troops have 50% organization for liuke 3 years.

[Včelí medvídek]

1) Germany needs more civ facs for trade and Soviets can switch at first chance with political power. There is not any advantage germany can get over soviets in first year. Beside Germany start with 30 Divisions form witch 3 are tank divisions, Soviets has already 5x more and the are more than able fully arm them before any conflict can start,

And no Germany dont start with war economy but with partial mobilization only.

1a) Imidietly is about end of 1936 at best scenario becuase justify war goal right off start of game take 240 days, coup in France 400 days, not to mention they need gather political power for it first which is about 50 /~2 months) per country they wish to attack.

2) You probably dont get they play 1v1 with Italy as AI.

3) No it not, coup take 400 days and occupy 1 province with 1 division, at best they cna boot fascism a bit so they get few mroe divisions, try it yourself. Beside most important thing is that civil war dont ahve any advantage for germany as they can nto annex country after that.

4) You have a lot but not so much as you wish. The scheme you presented limit you a lot for first few years effectivly prevent it spend political power on things you need. Beside Germany is not allowed allowed research focuses like Anschluss and on at all if they are already at war.

5) Again, they play 1v1, AI Japan will nto act as Germany player wish. And if you talk about mroe people in MP there is no reason why should play several people against single soviet but if all majors are covered they will act against Germany as well (like France enter allies imidietly and so on)

6) No chance Germany can fight alone on 2 fronts at soon 1937.

7) Declare and annex Belgium and Ne. rise tension about 30% each you hit clsoe to 100% tension at time declaration war to France (so likely about beginning to half of 1937 in your plan) with other things in world.

8) Penalty is 20% not 50 and it gets lower with each few montsh since purge.