Self Propelled Artillery/SP Anti Tank/SP Air Defense vs the towed versions

[Emperor Penguin]

What is the difference? Is one better than the other?

[Warhunter]

i could be wrong on all accounts

but i believe the main difference is speed since the self propelled while move at however fast that tank moves. while the normal ones are slower (well if you try to use the superheavy chassis for self propelled don't expect it to go faster)

armor. the self propelled units will have higher armor and hardness

production cost. the normal ones are alot cheaper than the self propelled versions

and the effectiveness of the self propelled units is based off what tank you are using (light tank,heavy tank, 1936 version 1944 version) while the towed versions are based on which one you are building (i believe theres interwar arty, then versions 1,2,3)
and the normal versions gain the bonuses from research while the self proppelled doesn't (or atleast i believe thats the case

[BoydofZINJ]

Look at the width of the units. You will notice the supply arty does not take width. While arty as a towed unit takes 1 more width than a standard infantry.

Why is this so important?

Imagine this: U want to attack 1 province vs another province. That is 80 width. If you have a standard infantry of 10 infantry units (thats 20 width total) with a support artillery on side A and side B has 8 infantry with 2 towed artilery units (thats a total of 22 width). Both A and B have 4 units and they attack each other. 1 province vs another province is a total combat width of 80. Even though side B has larger units of 22 widfth (they have more stuff) - but in combat he can only bring upto 80 width at a time. As a result, side B will only be able to field 3 units (3*22=66 and 4*22=88) while side A will be able to field all 4 units at the same time (4*20 = 80). As a result, side A will tend to win more battles than side B,.. because side A can bring more units and more width in each battle.

[GOT_NO_SKILLZ]

But Side B should have known to design his divisions to a 20-width standard, in which case he wouldn't be fielding 8 infantry/2 arty, but instead 7 infantry/2 arty......So it would be 4vs4 divisions. And the soft attack advantage of those 2 line arty in every division becomes huge.

[Warhunter]

pretty sure OP is talking about the tank variants you can make vs the infantry version of them (towed)

but i guess it doesn't hurt to keep explaining how width works.

[Swesal]

The heavy SP arty has about twice the soft attack as line arty both techs @1936. Costs a heck of a lot more also, especially if you have to import the materials to make them.

[Aedile]

Towed stuff is cheaper. The SP versions depend on the chasis, and get the same debuffs. E.g hills mountains urban.

Originally posted by Swesal:

The heavy SP arty has about twice the soft attack as line arty both techs @1936. Costs a heck of a lot more also, especially if you have to import the materials to make them.

The first SP heavy artillery is actually better than the last towed one. Kind of. It gets the penalties heavy tanks get, e.g. city over a river is like -90% damage. Same with other SP artillery - same isuues as tanks. Regular artillery has lower debufs, and has a bonus against fortifications, and no coty attack penalty.


Cost isn't that much of in issue. It takes 5 times longer to build, but you need half the units per batallion and half the artillery for the same damage.

[Zuul]

Something a lot of people also tend to forget is armor.

If you're fielding SP heavy artillery vs towed artillery on the opponent...if they're not also running support anti-tank, you're going to rip their head off.

Then there's also the hardness value, which is going to cause a small % of the attacks from the "awesome" 7 inf/2 arty divisions to use their basically non-existant hard attack.

[Emperor Penguin]

Alright so it seems that SP Artillery is worth it. Should I primarily use the heavy chassis or should I use the medium? Also, it there any use adding a SP tank destroyer battalion to an infantry division?

[Aedile]

Originally posted by Emperor Penguin:

Alright so it seems that SP Artillery is worth it. Should I primarily use the heavy chassis or should I use the medium? Also, it there any use adding a SP tank destroyer battalion to an infantry division?

Limited. Just as tanks the artillery on tank chaisis gets debuffs on rough terrain. Towed artillery doesn't. So adapt depending on situation.

[Warhunter]

medium chassis is alot faster than heavy. so using some medium SPart with your medium tank divisions is great so they can blitz through infantry faster
the heavy chassis is better off for your infantry. for a slow push or for holding the line (depending on what you actually task your infantry to do)
and like all tanks they suffer debuffs in certain rough terrain. so don't be shocked if your awesome tank divisions are getting bogged down in mountains and such

[Emperor Penguin]

Alright, so how do I deal with dug in infantry in poor tank terrain? I know that Mountaineers get buffs in hills and mountains, but what about cities, jungles, swamps, etc.?

[Warhunter]

i mean eventually troops with high soft attack will beat mountaineers and such in their mountains. but it will take some time. as long as your attack beats their defense you should be good
i tend to just surround them (if i can avoid the mountains) or punch through the weakest section to surround them. so i can cut off their supplies and having air superiority helps in reducing their defense stat

paradropping can work if you can cut off their supplies as well with your paratroopers (through atleast make sure you find a way to give those paratroopers a supply line. either from a city or from a port otherwise those paratroopers may be very dead

[Včelí medvídek]

I believe that if you use just about two artillery units in your infantry division you can not get much wrong with either. Generaly SP has better values but it get a bit alrger penalty for most terrain. It is kinda low compared to higher attack (about 1-2% compared to towed version with better firepower and hardiness that compensate it well)

P.S. Still have nightmares from invading Iran with my german mechanized units - dont underestimate hard terrain without proper preparation.

And in late game conquering rest of world and US as Germany i found most limitng factory infrastructure and supply lines - from this point of view SP untis are way Worse as they "eat" 2-3x more!.

[Aedile]

Originally posted by Včelí medvídek:

I believe that if you use just about two artillery units in your infantry division you can not get much wrong with either. Generaly SP has better values but it get a bit alrger penalty for most terrain. It is kinda low compared to higher attack (about 1-2% compared to towed version with better firepower and hardiness that compensate it well)

P.S. Still have nightmares from invading Iran with my german mechanized units - dont underestimate hard terrain without proper preparation.

And in late game conquering rest of world and US as Germany i found most limitng factory infrastructure and supply lines - from this point of view SP untis are way Worse as they "eat" 2-3x more!.

I also thinkg the biggest problem with SP and especially the heavy SP is actually uses lots of more supplies.