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I understand, I've modied my divisions before. In my case I had added an engineer as support for the added defense which should have put my division at the 9500 men range (I think). Is there any way to see their division make ups? Is the AI just maxing out all their divisions at 25k (or whatever the max is) each?
Clearly something's wrong when I'm losing 21:2 while attacking from 2 different tiles, I just have no idea what it is.
No I know to check that, equipment was good. Both men and equipment were at 100% or near 100%.
Actually it has nothing to do with statistics. That's physically impossible, but its a game so who knows what can or can't happen.
That said I've seen the AI do it to me. Game before, same thing (I was France defending against Italy) and they took 40 divisions and rammed it through the south pass. I had 15 units defending the 1 tile they were attacking, they were only attacking from 2 tiles (so the battle line wasn't that large). It took a few months buy my men eventually retreated and lost. Which is kinda what is expected in a 40:15. And that's not even a 3:1 ratio. And I was in the mountains, with mountaineers, and every defensive multiplier I could muster, on top of forts. The cases where I lost the odds were WAY higher in my favor. Something is not adding up.
Each time you attack a province you can only have so many troops enter the battle at a time. It is determined by this:
1 Province attacking 1 province = 80 width. Each additional province that attacks adds another 40 width. As a result, if you are attacking from three sides that would be 80+40+40. If you are attacking from two sides then it would be 80+40 = 120.
This pic shows I have a combat width of 120.
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/271720179210875273/FB7EFD79EB7BFCE145E2EEA5AD6E57733802C53A/
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=701320044
In the picture you will see I am attacking a single lone province and I have two provinces that are joined to that province. As a result, There are two fronts that can attack it. Each province, essentailly, that is joined to province in question (that you wantt to attack) is considered a front ... or add +20 to each province that is joining in on the fight.
So... imagine this... As Germany, you want to attack France, specifically, you want to take the province of Strasbourg FIRST (and only this one lone city and province). If you ALL your troops in 1 province and they attack... you can only get 80 widths worth of troops. However, Germany has, initially, two difference provinces that are adjacent to Strasbourg. If you have troops on both province attack at the same time then you have a total combat width of 120 (80+40). If you captured the French province to the north of Strasbourg and attack Strasbourg with the troops from the north and the 2 adjacent provinces you now have a combat width of 160 (80+40+40). It finally made sense... when I click on the battles and studied it.
If you have units that are exactly 20 width then you can send 4 units (and only 4 units) to attack. However, if your units are optimized BADLY... let us say you have 21 width then you can only send 3 units at a time. 21*3 = 63 (the 4th would be 84 - as a result, your 4th unit would sit and wait until your three units fail and then attack solo 1 to 4 odds).
Is width the only factor? NOPE.... however, it will help you optimize your troops. If you are attacking from three different sides and you had each unit at 20 width then all you need to send it a maximum of 8 units (8*20 = 160) (the province is being attacked by three sides so thats 80+40+40 = 160 width).
Then there are specific attacks to PIERCE thru armor... :)
Unmodified Divisions of Chasseurs Alpins take a lot of width and without Recon/Engineerd/Artillery/AT Support will not hold against a massed Italian assault, number of division means nothing as width will prevent them from participating and they will just get demoralised one by one against divisions they cannot harm.
What happens is that out of your 15 divisions, maybe 2 or 3 are actually fighting at a time, they proceed to get beaten because they don't have the tools to beat back armored units/artillery backed infantry, the next batch of 2-3 shows up, rinse and repeat until all of your 15 divisions are beaten.
Don't stack, mind your width and make sure to give proper support units to your divisions.
thats not true though one of the first replies was helpful and explained it , the OP dismissed it with the same attitude of his original post.
Honestly combat width is a fairly simple basic mechanic , i dont think its some over complicated fussy mechanic , it makes sense as well. It is not some micro intensive mechanic.
Plus theres a reason the germans drove round the french defensive line , we all know it was because it was a ridiculously defended position built up over many years to be a ' none shall pass' position.
Defences are certainly not too strong in this gane , the OP just wanted to drag and right click one of the most defended spots in history. I think the OP didnt understand got confused cried ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and raged , i've been there in some games.
edit- i do agree some of the replies were to rude and dont help anyone but If you ask a question in a certain way you are going to get a certain type of reply.
If I cannot take a tile 21:2 when atacking from 2 tiles, why can they do it? What factors APART from division width allows thier men to become invincible? Because where-as there's cannot be taken even when out numbered, mine run away all the time even when the odds are stacked in their favor.
Morale = Organisation.
They cannot harm them because Chasseurs Alpins are just dudes with rifles trained to fight in mountainous areas, how do you expect them to destroy tanks or deal with artillery backed infantry if they have none ?
Their standard template you start with as France has no Hard Attack/Pierce whatsoever and meager Soft Attack, they rely on terrain to beat back regular infantry, but there is only so much turf advantage can do for you if you don't give them support.
In my games, I can hold 30+ division of Italian with 4 Divisions of Chasseurs, the difference is that my divisions width has been optimised and they have been given Recon/Engineers/Radio support and 1 group of artillery/Anti-tank guns. I also keep 2 more divisions behind, in case organisation/morale runs low.
'The amount of people that don't understand combat width is comical.', is not helpful. The poster was ridiculing the OP.
Yes because we all know the whole point of these forums is to insult and denigrate others. And before you say otherwise, until I posted anything, over 90% of the posts were just that (a few since then have actually attempted to have a conversation).
That is actually not explained anywhere in the game, not in the tutorial, and not in any of the tooltips. It makes sense to an extent, but it alone doesn't account for the discrepancies that I am seeing, and I assume from the nature of the post from what the OP is seeing.
And remember how I said the whole point of the forums is to to insult and denigrate others? Case in point. Gotta slip in that insult... wouldn't be a steam post without it.
Click the little bubble when your units are in battle, mouse over the stats, that should give you an idea what's happening. We'll all help you figure it out ;)
I generally thought thats what you had in mind but I wanted to be sure there wasn't some mechanic I was just completely unaware of...
I don't expect tanks to be of much use in the mountains. But that's neither here nor there because the AI almost never uses tanks.
Ok that makes sense... I guess. So where in the game is this then explained? Where can I read about how to properly set up my divisions (because apparently the default ones are completely useless?). Now the default France infantry does get an artillery support, I usually add an engineer. But unless I know the underlying algorithm the game is using I have no way of knowing why unit A is losing to unit B. I know having 50 soft attack is better than 20, but other than that, how does it relate to defense? At what point does unit A have no effect on unit B? Where is this stuff explained in the game?