Can't win battles that should be easy to win

[Phrog]

As Italy, I conquered Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, and Northern Greece, yet I can't defeat the Greek army right where my troops should be able to just march in and take the city. My 53 divisions can't seem to defeat the 4 Greek divisions in Athens. They have been fighting for months yet the Greeks always rout my entire army. I've lost over 300k manpower in this battle. I have planes doing bombings and everything yet the Greeks, even when down to 1 division, still rout my 50.

Edit: Solved. Adjusting the amount of troops attacking had little effect on the result. So I retreated out and divided the Greek force, engaging around Corinth and moving around them to take Athens.

[class101 [OLED deck]]

Don't you remember the 300 Spartans, your story seems legit ;)

[mastaflex]

What's the status of those 53 divs? Are they lacking equipment/manpower?

[PFC Chamberlain]

The least obvious rule in HOI is that more is not neccessarily better.

There exists in the game this thing called "frontage". Unit weight determines how much frontage that unit takes up. Attacking from multiple directions adds more frontage to the battle.

If you exceed the frontage for any given battle, you will develop a "stacking penalty". 50 divisions cannot operate effectively when crammed into a couple of provinces. You may have noticed that in the battle, you have lots of reserves, that is because these units cannot be brought to bear effectively and sit out of the battle, wasting resources, and directly hurting the combat ability of the divisions actually fighting.

My recommendation, split of a 12 or so infantry divisions, set the up on a frontline around the city with a general, plan an attack against the city, and go from there. should work alot better. move the rest of your army out of the way.

Blockade athens if possible as well by having naval supremacy around it.

[Phrog]

Originally posted by PFC Chamberlain 29th ID:

The least obvious rule in HOI is that more is not neccessarily better.

There exists in the game this thing called "frontage". Unit weight determines how much frontage that unit takes up. Attacking from multiple directions adds more frontage to the battle.

If you exceed the frontage for any given battle, you will develop a "stacking penalty". 50 divisions cannot operate effectively when crammed into a couple of provinces. You may have noticed that in the battle, you have lots of reserves, that is because these units cannot be brought to bear effectively and sit out of the battle, wasting resources, and directly hurting the combat ability of the divisions actually fighting.

My recommendation, split of a 12 or so infantry divisions, set the up on a frontline around the city with a general, plan an attack against the city, and go from there. should work alot better. move the rest of your army out of the way.

Blockade athens if possible as well by having naval supremacy around it.

I have tried that already but all it seems to do is lessen the balance of power. I still lose despite how much I balance the combat width. ---- Actually while writing this I tried retreating and drawing them out of the city and dividing their forces north of Athens, then I took the city while their army was away and they've capitulated. So hurrah problem is solved.

[The Prophet]

Originally posted by The Philosophating Phrog:

As Italy, I conquered Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, and Northern Greece, yet I can't defeat the Greek army right where my troops should be able to just march in and take the city. My 53 divisions can't seem to defeat the 4 Greek divisions in Athens. They have been fighting for months yet the Greeks always rout my entire army. I've lost over 300k manpower in this battle. I have planes doing bombings and everything yet the Greeks, even when down to 1 division, still rout my 50.

whats thier defensive bonus? are they dug in?is your baytle plan ready?

[Divine]

Terrain, organisation,equipment,number of divisions, number of attack directions, air superiority,etc can all matter.

But still - you are the first person i heard of to use 50 divisions against 4....

[Bored Peon]

Also do not forget there is MANY factors that can screw you in combat.

Supply
Encryption (keeps them from seeing your orders)
Decryption (allows you to see enemy orders)
Recon
Dug in
Frontage
Terrain modifiers (ie using tanks in mountain or forests)
Air superiority for the region
Air support
Shore bombardment
Low manpower to reinforce
Low equipment to replace losses
Commander skill level
Veterancy of the units
Commander skills

Originally posted by PFC Chamberlain 29th ID:

My recommendation, split of a 12 or so infantry divisions, set the up on a frontline around the city with a general, plan an attack against the city, and go from there. should work alot better. move the rest of your army out of the way.

That is really the best surround the enemy province you want to hit and attack it from multiple directions. This increases your frontage and removes their dug modifiers (after 80 width?)

[BoydofZINJ]

There might be a few other problems too...

WIDTH.

Ever see the movie 300? Where the Spartans hold up in a mountain pass that negates the persians superior number? Each battle has a width limit. When you look at your troops each of your troops have width defined to them. When troops fight from 1 province to another the base width is 80. If there are adjacent provinces that can enter the same fight the width increases to 120.

Thinking back on 300. If an enemy has a combat stack that has a total width of 80 and finds a bottleneck where you can only attack them 1 province at a time. You could have a DOOM stack of a million troops... but only 80 widths worth of troops can enter the battle. As a result, they will be bottlenecking you.

You can increase the amount of troops that can enter the fight... by fighting them on additional provinces. The math worth to be 80 for 1 province and +40 for each additional province that enters the fight to attack them.


http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/271720179210875273/FB7EFD79EB7BFCE145E2EEA5AD6E57733802C53A/

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=701320044


In the picture you will see I am attacking a single lone province and I have two provinces that are joined to that province. As a result, There are two fronts that can attack it. Each province, essentailly, that is joined to province in question (that you wantt to attack) is considered a front ... or add +20 to each province that is joining in on the fight.


So... imagine this... As Germany, you want to attack France, specifically, you want to take the province of Strasbourg FIRST (and only this one lone city and province). If you ALL your troops in 1 province and they attack... you can only get 80 widths worth of troops. However, Germany has, initially, two difference provinces that are adjacent to Strasbourg. If you have troops on both province attack at the same time then you have a total combat width of 120 (80+40). If you captured the French province to the north of Strasbourg and attack Strasbourg with the troops from the north and the 2 adjacent provinces you now have a combat width of 160 (80+40+40). It finally made sense... when I click on the battles and studied it.

[Zorlond]

German Light Tank division with Motorized Inf support in the Spanish Civil war, vs a single infantry division that is cut off, out of supply, and isolated...

Takes three weeks to finish.

[Divine]

Originally posted by Zorlond:

German Light Tank division with Motorized Inf support in the Spanish Civil war, vs a single infantry division that is cut off, out of supply, and isolated...

Takes three weeks to finish.

Does anyone know how to mod the number of divisions you are allowed to send as volunteers?

Just seems weird when you can only send 2 divisions to the nationalist as germany lol.

And yes having just a tank brigade or something in your infantry division really helps a lot against the ai. It doesnt have to be motorised.

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by Germanyball:

Originally posted by Zorlond:

German Light Tank division with Motorized Inf support in the Spanish Civil war, vs a single infantry division that is cut off, out of supply, and isolated...

Takes three weeks to finish.

Does anyone know how to mod the number of divisions you are allowed to send as volunteers?

Just seems weird when you can only send 2 divisions to the nationalist as germany lol.

And yes having just a tank brigade or something in your infantry division really helps a lot against the ai. It doesnt have to be motorised.

I did a game as the Spanish and I had only 1 or 2 divisions at a time sent. However Germany and Italy did it multiple times.

That whole game was borked anyways. The AI Germany and AI French did something weird and stupid. The Germans did the Rhineland focus and France did something back that caused them to go to war in 1936 and of course France last maybe a week or two. Meanwhile my Spanish Civul War did not occur until like 1938 or so.

[BoydofZINJ]

Originally posted by Germanyball:

Originally posted by Zorlond:

German Light Tank division with Motorized Inf support in the Spanish Civil war, vs a single infantry division that is cut off, out of supply, and isolated...

Takes three weeks to finish.

Does anyone know how to mod the number of divisions you are allowed to send as volunteers?

Just seems weird when you can only send 2 divisions to the nationalist as germany lol.

And yes having just a tank brigade or something in your infantry division really helps a lot against the ai. It doesnt have to be motorised.

I believe its based on the total number of troops that you have deployed. Not sure on the exact maths**





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http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/271720179210959765/201C0F69EC02FA04E3D80156042FFDA8F835EFC2/

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=701334833

Here is an imagine of a potential attack I am doing. I want to attack 1 enemy province. However, you will notice I have three adjacent provinces to it. As a result, I will have a total width of 80+40+40 or 160. I have two types of units... Mountaineers which have a total width of 10 and Infantry which have a total width of 20. The area has mountains, as a result, the mounteers should really help me.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/271720179210959765/201C0F69EC02FA04E3D80156042FFDA8F835EFC2/

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=701338794

I declare war. Even though America has guarenteed protection.... they do not enter the fight on either side... even when I call for allies.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/271720179210993420/E11F7FD330FF4342EAEE62977BBD7B2C8639036D/

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=701340536

Notice, how I have the max number of troops in the battle with no reserves. All my troops could fight... because their width was equal to (or less than) the total width of the battle field. If I could only attack from 1 province then I could only send in half as many troops (in this case). Since, I knew specifically which provinces would attack... I made sure the right troops entered the battle.

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by BoydofZINJ:

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/271720179210959765/201C0F69EC02FA04E3D80156042FFDA8F835EFC2/

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/271720179210959765/201C0F69EC02FA04E3D80156042FFDA8F835EFC2/

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/271720179210993420/E11F7FD330FF4342EAEE62977BBD7B2C8639036D/

Using the second option, Copy Link Address makes the pretty previews instead.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=701338794

[BoydofZINJ]

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

Originally posted by BoydofZINJ:

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/271720179210959765/201C0F69EC02FA04E3D80156042FFDA8F835EFC2/

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/271720179210959765/201C0F69EC02FA04E3D80156042FFDA8F835EFC2/

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/271720179210993420/E11F7FD330FF4342EAEE62977BBD7B2C8639036D/

Using the second option, Copy Link Address makes the pretty previews instead.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=701338794

Hey thanks :)

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by BoydofZINJ:

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

Using the second option, Copy Link Address makes the pretty previews instead.

Hey thanks :)

No problem. I find people will look at your screenshots far more often with the preview than seeing a link. You know the whole picture says more thna a thousand words thing or something.