How to eat China as Japan?

[Lymark]

I'm a newbie, and this is my 2nd game trying to beat China as Japan.

I can barely capture Bejin(Took me half a year), I have ~40 troops doing navel invasion at both Shan Dong ports at captured Janan eventually.

With total control of air superiority+CAS, I was going to break their line of supply from here, but then the other smaller China(PRC), some how joined the war and now I'm getting invaded west of Mengkuko that I have no defensive at all.

They have 148~195 divisions(145 for me), they only had roughly 120 when I delcare war on them.

Any advice?

[GranColombianoMapper]

For me, I'm currently playing Japan, when I invaded China the thing is:

1.) You need hordes of divisions on the Manchurian and Mengukuoian borders
2.) You need a southern invasion force too, i assembled 24 divisions in Taiwan to land at Fuijan and Xiamen
3.) Patience - The biggest one. I considered doing my Japan campaign all over again but I just kept going and when I regrouped my southern invasion force the tide turned. I captured Shanghai, Beijing, Guangzhou, and many other coastal regions until I forced China and the PRC to surrender.

So the key to winning in China: Patience, Good Generals, Good Coordination, Tons of Divisions and optionally create a third side in China's civil war, which gives you time to expand. By the time the rebels are put down it will be too late for the Chinese to do much.

And thats my experience, hope this helps.

[Surimi]

More random tips.

1) Don't feel you have to attack China instantly. They will never catch up to you in industry.

2) Don't overload your fronts. China has extremely low supply. Hundreds of poor quality divisions are just going to eat all the food and provide very little. Use reserve and garrison troops as garrisons and keep them off the front line unless they just need to hold for a bit..

3) You have superior industry so you need to use it. Prepare and outfit your divisions with support and artillery, maybe even bring in some light armour and motorized. A few divisions with plenty of artillery will still easily defeat swarms of basic infantry. Japanese starting divisions are extremely impractical for actual combat.

4) Ignore the number of divisions. Chinese divisions are fairly small.

5) Don't be afraid to build new infrastructure. Again, you have vastly superior industry. Infrastructure will also get damaged as you advance, so you might want to either build more or give it time to repair.

6) Use naval invasions to open up new fronts and force Chinese troops to redeploy.

7) Make sure you're using the planning bonus. There's no shame in stopping an attack to let the planning bonus build up again if the attack is stalling.

[Popcorn]

China is really easy. Hook the main armry on the border, which will keep their main force facing you/ you can easily break them but don't bother yet. Instead wait until Guanxi Clique joins china, and invade the two main ports there. China never garrisons there after the merge. Then expand using the allies border as a secure flank, and aim upwards to take their secondary capitals and such. When they start moving troops away from the frontline to reinforce their other defenses, then attack.

I like using cavalry groups in my main invasion because they're fast and can expand quickly, with the infantry following up behind. You can easily take most of western china before any decent numbers come to oppose you. By then you'll have them sandwiched.. and boom.

Make sure your infantry has artillery.. it is the deciding advantage against their mainline troops, and helps to break them so much quicker. I'll create a second infrantry unit.. with two-three artillery, and build a few (12-24) to integrate with my main line...

[BlackSmoke 🏴‍☠]

Ok, a totally different approach:

- Forget about China by now...
- Forget about national focus (puppeting China) only industry and military decisions.
- As soon as possible move ALL your troops (from islands, Japan, China) to URSS border.
- Group them together.
- Start justifying URSS.
- Go to template and change all basic infantry divisions to have only 20 width (this will save troops and weapons).
- Delete ALL productions of ships and planes. ONLY weapons and support.
- Wait to have all your divs replenished with weapons at 100%.
- Create a new division template reinforced with artillery, engineers and recon.
- Start training new troops using this new template.
- Declare war on URSS.
- Move the motorized/cavalry units along the URSS coast to surround them avoiding combat, the bulk of infantry to keep the front and fight.
- Push them slowly pushing towards west. encircle-kill with motorized/cavalry and repeat...
- URSS front will slowly decay and they will move back.
- With motorized/cavalry turn north and move toward west. The infantry bulk keeping the front.
- They will start sending reserves from west front.
- Deploy every new troop to the front. Be prepared to reinforce the front. Don't stop building new infantry divs EXCEPT if running low on manpower (in that case stop building new units).

As a result you can ANNEX URSS, Mongolia and Tannu Tuva by mid 1938. And Poland too (a bit later).

***You will get MASSIVE industry and resources***

NOW answering to your question:
Then comeback to Asia and declare war on China and annex them extremely easy. Eat one by one the rest of countries around.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=827228998
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=827296096
PS:
I went a little further and annexed Germany and Italy too in february 40.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=827469863
This route it's infinitely more efficient than going to war with China and wining that war by 38-39.

Going to war against Germany and Italy is NOT advisable because you will disable normal WWII, and you must fight alone against allieds. So stop when annexing URSS and Poland and turn back to attack China. Affer sweeping all Asia most prolly Germany will be at war against allieds. Then you can go to war against allieds too to win easily.

[Popcorn]

It's actually easier to just play as China, kill off Japan, and then invade Russia.. You'll be massive, and won't have war with the Allies, along with a massive manpower to play with.Supply italy with war material and a little to Germany. Allow the European war to build, while upgrading your military, industry and build a navy.. and then take out the US. Fun Fun Fun.

[BlackSmoke 🏴‍☠]

Originally posted by Popcorn:

It's actually easier to just play as China, kill off Japan, and then invade Russia.. You'll be massive, and won't have war with the Allies, along with a massive manpower to play with.Supply italy with war material and a little to Germany. Allow the European war to build, while upgrading your military, industry and build a navy.. and then take out the US. Fun Fun Fun.

Negative, Time it's cruzial and fighting Japan will take time. Owning all japanese and russian factories and resources in june 1938 makes you having lots of time to build ANYTHING (ships, planes, tanks, etc). Basicly you won the game that early. With your route it's impossible to annex URSS early in 38. Also the OP asked about Japan NOT China. The best for Japan it's what I said.

To resume... wich is better to own: China or URSS?

NO DOUBT ---> URSS

[Popcorn]

True. You want to annex by 38... i don't see the need to be that quick... and if anything I'd prefer to wait until the Axis/Allies are fighting. each to their own.

[BlackSmoke 🏴‍☠]

Originally posted by Popcorn:

True. You want to annex by 38... i don't see the need to be that quick... and if anything I'd prefer to wait until the Axis/Allies are fighting. each to their own.

When you start a war it's to win that war, right? Annexing URSS you win. Simply.
You don't need Germany or Italy to help to you. You don't need anyone as Japan (in this game HoI4). But obviously if Germany/Italy are at war against allieds will make it infinitely more easy.

[Popcorn]

I want to have fun. No, I understand what you're saying. I've done similiar to what you suggested before. in taking out Russia as Japan early. I wasn't as quick as you, but close enough.

Nah. I'm looking for something different from simply winning. I've done that to death.And as Japan, I've never needed to Axis to win. They're an easy faction to devour the world.

[BlackSmoke 🏴‍☠]

Originally posted by Popcorn:

I want to have fun. No, I understand what you're saying. I've done similiar to what you suggested before. in taking out Russia as Japan early. I wasn't as quick as you, but close enough.

Nah. I'm looking for something different from simply winning. I've done that to death.And as Japan, I've never needed to Axis to win. They're an easy faction to devour the world.

This is a trouble with this game. This is not playing WWII, this is being absolutely ahistoric and playing against game itself and its mechanics. Two different points of view. Those who try to play historic will find if harder than when playing absolutely ahistoric. Wargame it's 'what if' but where is the limit to 'what if'?. I try to explore all possibilites but then the game turns only something mechanic losing all replayability and interest. What Paradox did with 'Together for Victory' was great, and don't deserve so much critics as received. Why? Because they hardened the game NOT by simply manipulating parameters or sliders (gross numbers of resources / factories / manpower,... etc) but by introducing certain limits to what a country can do or not and these limits are affecting to the speed when playing them. Now playing Commonwealth countries it's really interesting and a challenge, and closer to reality. So, to me, well done Paradox.

PS:
I like to test the game limits.

[Popcorn]

I think we all start with some historical accuracy in learning the game mechanics, and then shift to try other options. Personally I enjoy the way things are now. My actions have an effect and other countries DoW on each other now the way vanilla never really did. It's interesting and fun. Not historical but then IMHO the historical part of HOI is just the starting date.. everything else should be flexible... although in some areas, not as flexible as they currently are.

TFV was ok. I've no interest in the minor nations (just find them boring and far too unrealistic).. but I do like the other features brought into the game, especially once the modders balance or improve them somewhat.

[BlackSmoke 🏴‍☠]

Popcorn like you... waiting for BlackICE to be updated to match new patch. The combined HoI IV + BlackICE will excel any expectation for sure. The best combination in my opinion.

[Popcorn]

BlackIce is excellent. It is my Fav. However while waiting, I use the Road to 56, AI mod, and a few other smaller mods. Gives almost the same feeling of BlackIce... and others that BlackIce hadn't implemented yet.

I can't play vanilla HOI anymore. It's just too.... bland.

[Kadrush]

Attrition and supply are a worse enemy than the chinese.

1-Research maintenance company, give it to all your units fighting on china.
2-Spamm artillery on your divisions
3-Make tac bombers and get air superiority, they help. Research heavy fighters for an efficient CAP.
4-Quantity is not a quality on its own, if you spamm on the front you ll use more supply that the region can sustain, more attrition, less organization.
5-If possible give tanks to your cavalry and make it into a breaktrough unit.
6-If you convert your motorised divisions into infantry you can use the trucks to sustain a supply company on each of your divisions, that helps specially if you rush the second lvl for the 20% reduction.
7- Adquire with political power advisors that reduce attrition and increase soft attack for infantry.
8- Research better weapons and doctrines, focus on the ground until late 37, prepare to invade.

I went to a MP yesterday as China and found that it was quite easy to beat naval invasions, most chinese ports just suck and cant sustain large armies, all i have to do was to send a crap army and hold the line until the invasion force starve. If you are going to invade by sea as japan, make marines and focus on bigger ports, dont spamm units after the landing. keep an eye at the supplies.

If you are on MP, consider researching and giving your divs AT support, if URSS send armored volunters, you are in trouble.

Edit: two other things, run a test game a take note of the climate on china, very hot gives a lot of attrition, moving or attacking get the issue even worse, try not to attack during that season. 2- Tac bombers help a lot.