WTF? Where is the game manual pdf?

[MOBB]

title says it all... where is the game manual for this and why the hell is the game manual for every game not made more readily available?

[PFC Chamberlain]

http://www.hoi4wiki.com/Hearts_of_Iron_4_Wiki

HOI4 uses a wiki instead of a PDF. They should make it more obvious where to find it, but its something.

[Mansen]

What - You mean like that question mark icon in the top right of the interface that leads you straight there? heh

[E]

Sadly most modern games have stopped arriving with manuals. Some developers do make manuals but these "manuals" are mostly installation instructions/some points and tips in a 2 page leaflet. Some games, like HoI4, don't even come with one.

As a gamer from the old days...I find this sad. I loved reading long manuals that used to come with games back in the days, most of them were always full of interesting stuff, tips, historical fun facts, even stories...and so on.

There is the wiki of course...but it is still pretty much WIP and tutorials will take a while to come up.

[class101 [OLED deck]]

Originally posted by PFC Chamberlain 29th ID:

They should make it more obvious where to find it, but its something.

It is completely obvious if you play the tutorial, you can't miss the informations

[Mansen]

Manuals are a terrible thing. They are outdated in no time at all, and often full of errors. Wikis are the modern manual. Dynamic, user controlled and so on.

[Bridger]

Originally posted by Priyon:

Sadly most modern games have stopped arriving with manuals. Some developers do make manuals but these "manuals" are mostly installation instructions/some points and tips in a 2 page leaflet. Some games, like HoI4, don't even come with one.

As a gamer from the old days...I find this sad. I loved reading long manuals that used to come with games back in the days, most of them were always full of interesting stuff, tips, historical fun facts, even stories...and so on.

There is the wiki of course...but it is still pretty much WIP and tutorials will take a while to come up.

The wiki is a digital, searchable, categorized manual. It is superior in every way except for situations where digital doesn't help you. But these days the vast majority of people (especially gamers who can afford a good enough PC to play games) have tablets/smart phones, so even that excuse doesn't hold up.

The way I read through the wiki is like this: Just open up everything from the main menu one at a time and start reading. Click links and open them in new tabs when you don't understand something, read that page, then go back to the first and keep going. You'll learn much faster that way vs. reading straight through a cover to cover manual.

[E]

Originally posted by LGC Bridger:

Originally posted by Priyon:

Sadly most modern games have stopped arriving with manuals. Some developers do make manuals but these "manuals" are mostly installation instructions/some points and tips in a 2 page leaflet. Some games, like HoI4, don't even come with one.

As a gamer from the old days...I find this sad. I loved reading long manuals that used to come with games back in the days, most of them were always full of interesting stuff, tips, historical fun facts, even stories...and so on.

There is the wiki of course...but it is still pretty much WIP and tutorials will take a while to come up.

The wiki is a digital, searchable, categorized manual. It is superior in every way except for situations where digital doesn't help you. But these days the vast majority of people (especially gamers who can afford a good enough PC to play games) have tablets/smart phones, so even that excuse doesn't hold up.

Agreed. Wikis, community and video tutorials are the new standards in this respect in the gaming industry.

Still, being nostalgic of those days, I love manuals where I find them. :)

[Bridger]

Originally posted by Priyon:

Agreed. Wikis, community and video tutorials are the new standards in this respect in the gaming industry.

Still, being nostalgic of those days, I love manuals where I find them. :)

Well, the real newest standard is a game that teaches you as you play, in a way which doesn't feel condescending to veterans of the genre, but also is engaging and fun for new people. These are, unfortunately, incredibly difficult to execute, especially in a grand strategy game. They'd ahve to dedicate an entire other team to setup a special version of the game that only unlocks new sections of the interface for you when it's going to teach you something, but somehow also allow you to make strategic decisions so you don't just feel like you're reading a manual or watching a video. That's a super difficult/time consuming task.

Wiki is much more simple :)

[E]

Originally posted by LGC Bridger:

Originally posted by Priyon:

Agreed. Wikis, community and video tutorials are the new standards in this respect in the gaming industry.

Still, being nostalgic of those days, I love manuals where I find them. :)

Well, the real newest standard is a game that teaches you as you play, in a way which doesn't feel condescending to veterans of the genre, but also is engaging and fun for new people. These are, unfortunately, incredibly difficult to execute, especially in a grand strategy game. They'd ahve to dedicate an entire other team to setup a special version of the game that only unlocks new sections of the interface for you when it's going to teach you something, but somehow also allow you to make strategic decisions so you don't just feel like you're reading a manual or watching a video. That's a super difficult/time consuming task.

Wiki is much more simple :)

True indeed.

And that, in fact, has always been Paradox's weakest point - to create a great tutorial. Thankfully the wikis help a lot.

[t4chy]

Between the ingame tutoriall, the mouse-over pop-up information on basically everything but the 'select all' button, and the links leading directly into the wiki for most topics I find not many points that would work better with a 'true' manual.

With games changing as much as the usual Paradox games, a fixed version of the manual would be mostly useless after a very short time.

[def name = "Zach"]

Wondering if this is the same guy who complained about this BEFORE release, a week or so ago

[Peek]

I remember back in the day, I bought a retail version of civilization 3 and it was kind of heavy because of the manual. It's like I bought a hardcover novel instead of a game.

[Achilleslastand]

Originally posted by LGC Bridger:

Originally posted by Priyon:

Sadly most modern games have stopped arriving with manuals. Some developers do make manuals but these "manuals" are mostly installation instructions/some points and tips in a 2 page leaflet. Some games, like HoI4, don't even come with one.

As a gamer from the old days...I find this sad. I loved reading long manuals that used to come with games back in the days, most of them were always full of interesting stuff, tips, historical fun facts, even stories...and so on.

There is the wiki of course...but it is still pretty much WIP and tutorials will take a while to come up.

The wiki is a digital, searchable, categorized manual. It is superior in every way except for situations where digital doesn't help you. But these days the vast majority of people (especially gamers who can afford a good enough PC to play games) have tablets/smart phones, so even that excuse doesn't hold up.

Do you really need me to hold your hand and tell you which chapters to read frist? Just open up everything from the main menu one at a time and start reading. Click links and open them in new tabs when you don't understand something, read that page, then go back to the first and keep going. You'll learn much faster that way vs. reading straight through a cover to cover manual.

No need to be a condescending prick, you both made valid points.

[Professor of Doom]

Zach...no, this isn't the same guy complaining before. There ARE others upset at the choice to leave it out. But for the record, I am still complaining:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/394360/discussions/0/364042703862086772/

[def name = "Zach"]

Originally posted by Professor of Doom:

Zach...no, this isn't the same guy complaining before. There ARE others upset at the choice to leave it out. But for the record, I am still complaining:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/394360/discussions/0/364042703862086772/

Ah okay, i dont rember forum names well. Perhaps I could have expected this, considering how this discussion board has been for the past few days, but I didnt expect it from such an obscure request/complaint