Losing against France as Germany? What am i doing wrong?

[SiCall]

I have 24x5 divisions at their border right now composing of Infanterie Division, Medium Armor, Artillery, Anti-Tank, Mobile Infantery... everything. I am producing the necessary supplies, it's not telling me i am low at all. They don't even seem to be engaging with any armor whatsoever. Yet i they are still kicking my ass with what seems to be 24 divisions.....

I have no problems with poland, except that russia for some reason just ended their non-aggression pact????

[Smash]

Mountain Man님이 먼저 게시:

Smash님이 먼저 게시:

HoI4 is a strategy game, sometimes the strategy is a bit more complicated than "advance directly towards the enemy".

This is probably one of the pieces of advice I've read yet.

Well at least we can see that the WW1 spirit of sending men over the top to get slaughtered assaulting fortified positions is still alive and well!

[SWARZENEGGER]

Smash님이 먼저 게시:

IRL it took Italy 4 months from the 1936 start date to finish Ethiopia so it sounds pretty normal to not instantly crush them and the time Ogami gives above is actually perfect.

Another thing is that you don't get perfect intelligence on the enemiy units you face with the information you do get being better as you get later techs. Having just started up as Ethiopia I can confirm they have 13 divisions. 7 are on the north flank (including 1 Mountain divison), 5 are in the south and one is garrisonning the Capital at the start.

Also if you check the terrain, Ethiopia is largely mountain and hills which offer a big defensive bonus (especially with the mointain division) as well as having some river crossings to contend with.

It's perfectly reasonably for this to be a slow but steady slog just like it was in IRL, especially as to begin with Italy's divisions are fairly backwards (lacking artillery for example). The enemy isn't as overmatched as they might appear at first glance and the terrain is mostly VERY good for defending.

Also worth mentioning that a few decades before the Ethiopians actually defeated the Italians in the First Italo-Ethiopian War!

+1

[squatdog_nz]

Smash님이 먼저 게시:

IRL it took Italy 4 months from the 1936 start date to finish Ethiopia so it sounds pretty normal to not instantly crush them and the time Ogami gives above is actually perfect.

Another thing is that you don't get perfect intelligence on the enemiy units you face with the information you do get being better as you get later techs. Having just started up as Ethiopia I can confirm they have 13 divisions. 7 are on the north flank (including 1 Mountain divison), 5 are in the south and one is garrisonning the Capital at the start.

Also if you check the terrain, Ethiopia is largely mountain and hills which offer a big defensive bonus (especially with the mointain division) as well as having some river crossings to contend with.

It's perfectly reasonably for this to be a slow but steady slog just like it was in IRL, especially as to begin with Italy's divisions are fairly backwards (lacking artillery for example). The enemy isn't as overmatched as they might appear at first glance and the terrain is mostly VERY good for defending.

Also worth mentioning that a few decades before the Ethiopians actually defeated the Italians in the First Italo-Ethiopian War!

What a load of crap.

The Ethiopian forces were completely steam-rolled in the battle of Amba Aradam when they tried to fight the Italian forces in a conventional meeting engagement. Meanwhile in the game, 3 low-tech divisions can hold off 7 divisions of modern infantry under total air supremacy in the open desert, for over a week.

[Darth Strip Mall]

Just have to deploy your divsions right, check terrain and whatnot. I just finished a game as estonia where i held the soviets off from 39-43 and killed over 4.5 million russians with some forts and basic inf with AT/Arty. Once an anti comintern bloc arrived through findland I took leningrad and moscow and the nazis and the commies both were defeated.

[The Last Triarius]

I adwise to learn historical war plan before starting your own. You gonna find best solutions in real history.

[Taiko]

Or the best lessons.

[Goblin Slayer]

maginot line, lvl 10 forts at france-german border. gives attacker -150% attacking penalty

[Smash]

squatdog_nz님이 먼저 게시:

Smash님이 먼저 게시:

IRL it took Italy 4 months from the 1936 start date to finish Ethiopia so it sounds pretty normal to not instantly crush them and the time Ogami gives above is actually perfect.

Another thing is that you don't get perfect intelligence on the enemiy units you face with the information you do get being better as you get later techs. Having just started up as Ethiopia I can confirm they have 13 divisions. 7 are on the north flank (including 1 Mountain divison), 5 are in the south and one is garrisonning the Capital at the start.

Also if you check the terrain, Ethiopia is largely mountain and hills which offer a big defensive bonus (especially with the mointain division) as well as having some river crossings to contend with.

It's perfectly reasonably for this to be a slow but steady slog just like it was in IRL, especially as to begin with Italy's divisions are fairly backwards (lacking artillery for example). The enemy isn't as overmatched as they might appear at first glance and the terrain is mostly VERY good for defending.

Also worth mentioning that a few decades before the Ethiopians actually defeated the Italians in the First Italo-Ethiopian War!

What a load of crap.

The Ethiopian forces were completely steam-rolled in the battle of Amba Aradam when they tried to fight the Italian forces in a conventional meeting engagement. Meanwhile in the game, 3 low-tech divisions can hold off 7 divisions of modern infantry under total air supremacy in the open desert, for over a week.

I already explained how and why you're wrong.

The terrain is mountainous and hilly with there being only a single desert province, the one on the front line that is probably going to be the first one you take. Lao it's very likely that they weren't holding off 7 divisions, they were holding off 3 divisions while 4 divisions were in reserve because there's only so much you can concentrate your forces.

The ethipians might be low tech, but so are the Italians, just not quite so low a tech as the ethiopians.

Also wars are entirely defined by a single battle. In the Christmas offensive the Ethiopians for example forced back the Italians, took down tanks and scored significant victories, with the fighting occuring in the rocky mountainous terrain that makes up significant portions of the front at the start of the game.

What makes you think the battles the divisions fight are conventional meetings engagements? I've just fired the Italy start and the tactic the Ethiopian general is using in the one desert province is 'Evade'.

Lastly I think the complaint of "Man, it took me more than 7 days to wipe out 30,000 soldiers" is really kinda being blown out of proportion. Even if it were valid, so what? Besides, the battle of Amba Aradam which you state as the Ethiopians being 'steam-rolled' lasted for 10 days. If a steam-rolling against "low-tech divisions" with "total air supremacy" takes longer than 7 days IRL, why shouldn't it take longer than 7 days in the game?

[Unexpected]

Lestrad님이 먼저 게시:

Which is why your supposed to be able to use the plan to get around the Maginot. Yet surprise surprise, the moment you declare war on Poland, France declares war on you making that no longer an option. (Convenient for them).

The game is clearly rigged in the Allies favor.

the allies did kind of win the war, so historically, yes, it is rigged in their favor

[squatdog_nz]

I already explained how and why you're wrong.

The terrain is mountainous and hilly with there being only a single desert province, the one on the front line that is probably going to be the first one you take. Lao it's very likely that they weren't holding off 7 divisions, they were holding off 3 divisions while 4 divisions were in reserve because there's only so much you can concentrate your forces.

The ethipians might be low tech, but so are the Italians, just not quite so low a tech as the ethiopians.

Also wars are entirely defined by a single battle. In the Christmas offensive the Ethiopians for example forced back the Italians, took down tanks and scored significant victories, with the fighting occuring in the rocky mountainous terrain that makes up significant portions of the front at the start of the game.

What makes you think the battles the divisions fight are conventional meetings engagements? I've just fired the Italy start and the tactic the Ethiopian general is using in the one desert province is 'Evade'.

Lastly I think the complaint of "Man, it took me more than 7 days to wipe out 30,000 soldiers" is really kinda being blown out of proportion. Even if it were valid, so what? Besides, the battle of Amba Aradam which you state as the Ethiopians being 'steam-rolled' lasted for 10 days. If a steam-rolling against "low-tech divisions" with "total air supremacy" takes longer than 7 days IRL, why shouldn't it take longer than 7 days in the game?

LMFAO!!!

What part of FULL COMBAT WIDTH can you not understand? There were 7 divisions attacking from TWO provinces. In the open desert, under total air supreiority, against poorly-equipped local forces.

Historically, the Eithiopians only achieved limited success in the Christmas offensive because they managed to isolate and destroy a single Eritrean brigade. Due to the moronic incompetence of the Italian command.

Amba Aradam is a MOUNTAIN. Jesus Christ.

[Smash]

squatdog_nz님이 먼저 게시:

I already explained how and why you're wrong.

The terrain is mountainous and hilly with there being only a single desert province, the one on the front line that is probably going to be the first one you take. Lao it's very likely that they weren't holding off 7 divisions, they were holding off 3 divisions while 4 divisions were in reserve because there's only so much you can concentrate your forces.

The ethipians might be low tech, but so are the Italians, just not quite so low a tech as the ethiopians.

Also wars are entirely defined by a single battle. In the Christmas offensive the Ethiopians for example forced back the Italians, took down tanks and scored significant victories, with the fighting occuring in the rocky mountainous terrain that makes up significant portions of the front at the start of the game.

What makes you think the battles the divisions fight are conventional meetings engagements? I've just fired the Italy start and the tactic the Ethiopian general is using in the one desert province is 'Evade'.

Lastly I think the complaint of "Man, it took me more than 7 days to wipe out 30,000 soldiers" is really kinda being blown out of proportion. Even if it were valid, so what? Besides, the battle of Amba Aradam which you state as the Ethiopians being 'steam-rolled' lasted for 10 days. If a steam-rolling against "low-tech divisions" with "total air supremacy" takes longer than 7 days IRL, why shouldn't it take longer than 7 days in the game?

LMFAO!!!

What part of FULL COMBAT WIDTH can you not understand? There were 7 divisions attacking from TWO provinces. In the open desert, under total air supreiority, against poorly-equipped local forces.

Historically, the Eithiopians only achieved limited success in the Christmas offensive because they managed to isolate and destroy a single Eritrean brigade. Due to the moronic incompetence of the Italian command.

Amba Aradam is a MOUNTAIN. Jesus Christ.

Either you're bad at strategy or you're simply remembering things wrong.

Ethiopia has only one desert province, which is bordered by only 1 Italian province. If you really were attacking it ffrom 2 provinces, which is something I doubt, then you'd slogged through the hard mountainous terrain to try and open the front to a desert province. That of course makes no sense, it would be far more sensible to have atacked the desert province to come around and flank the units in the hard to breach mountains.

Either you're wrong or you're bad at strategy.

Also thanks for the startling revelation that battles are won or lost due to reasons, including one side being worse than the other. However, despite the mountaious terrain, you have already specifically stated that Amba Aradam was a steamrolling. If an IRL steam rolling can last over 7 days, why can't an in game one?

Also I've just started my play through and I won the war in a month with 0K casualties. I think you're just bad at this.

[squatdog_nz]

Either you're bad at strategy or you're simply remembering things wrong.

Ethiopia has only one desert province, which is bordered by only 1 Italian province. If you really were attacking it ffrom 2 provinces, which is something I doubt, then you'd slogged through the hard mountainous terrain to try and open the front to a desert province. That of course makes no sense, it would be far more sensible to have atacked the desert province to come around and flank the units in the hard to breach mountains.

Either you're wrong or you're bad at strategy.

...Or I was also attacking from the adjacent province had previously captured.

Also thanks for the startling revelation that battles are won or lost due to reasons, including one side being worse than the other. However, despite the mountaious terrain, you have already specifically stated that Amba Aradam was a steamrolling. If an IRL steam rolling can last over 7 days, why can't an in game one?

Also I've just started my play through and I won the war in a month with 0K casualties. I think you're just bad at this.

LMFAO!!!!

The Italians destroyed an entire Eithiopian army at Amba Aradam, despite being outnumbered against forces entrenched in mountainous terrain.

An even better example was the Battle of Tembien, where another Eithiopian army was annihilated in THREE DAYS.

Under the current game mechanics, both battles would have lasted over a month, with massive casualties.

Just stop talking.

[Salty]

its the coding for the AI that is borked .. not necesarily your tactics.

i myself had 2 battlegroups with around 250 divisions of late armor arty and infantry (playing as UK) over 500 divisions in total and had everything researched / maxed, 2 german bog standard infantry divisions held me up indefinately so i set the other battlegroup on them from the other side... i let it run for weeks n weeks in game time and made myself a sandwich and coffee .... came back to see my 500 divisions were being absolutely mauled by these 2 german infantry divisions.....

i was also dropping nukes on them, 100's of CAS yet they wouldnt budge and didnt seem to be taking any worthwhile damage at all.

i ragequit after i seen that ..... retarded coding!!!

[Smash]

squatdog_nz님이 먼저 게시:

Either you're bad at strategy or you're simply remembering things wrong.

Ethiopia has only one desert province, which is bordered by only 1 Italian province. If you really were attacking it ffrom 2 provinces, which is something I doubt, then you'd slogged through the hard mountainous terrain to try and open the front to a desert province. That of course makes no sense, it would be far more sensible to have atacked the desert province to come around and flank the units in the hard to breach mountains.

Either you're wrong or you're bad at strategy.

...Or I was also attacking from the adjacent province had previously captured.

That's not an "or", I already specified that and it falls under the bad at strategy.

The adjacent province is a mountain. You should have done the exact opposite of what you did and attacked the desert province to get a two front attack on the mountains. Considering you did it the hard way, your forces were probably low on org/strength.

LMFAO!!!!

The Italians destroyed an entire Eithiopian army at Amba Aradam, despite being outnumbered against forces entrenched in mountainous terrain.

An even better example was the Battle of Tembien, where another Eithiopian army was annihilated in THREE DAYS.

Under the current game mechanics, both battles would have lasted over a month, with massive casualties.

Just stop talking.

LOL

When you think it proves your point Amba Aradam was a steamrolling of the ill equipped and low quality Ethiopians by the superior and technologically advanced Italians.

When I point out that actually it doesn't back up your point, suddenly you do a 180 and it was a hard fought battle against numerous Ethiopian defenders with good terrain advantage.

Are you sure you're comfortable with Italy? With your penchant for revisionism maybe you'd be more comfortable playing the USSR. http://i.imgur.com/vffZRZr.jpg

The battle took place decades ago and the facts haven't changed at all. Both sides had advantages in some areas, but for some strange mysterious reason your analysis of those advantages swings between massive extremes and does so instantaneously with no regard for actual analysis but instead merely what helps back up your point at that moment.

Maybe try replying once you've deceided on an actual position that you're not going to flip-flop on within 24 hours.

[Smash]

Cracky!님이 먼저 게시:

its the coding for the AI that is borked .. not necesarily your tactics.

i myself had 2 battlegroups with around 250 divisions of late armor arty and infantry (playing as UK) over 500 divisions in total and had everything researched / maxed, 2 german bog standard infantry divisions held me up indefinately so i set the other battlegroup on them from the other side... i let it run for weeks n weeks in game time and made myself a sandwich and coffee .... came back to see my 500 divisions were being absolutely mauled by these 2 german infantry divisions.....

i was also dropping nukes on them, 100's of CAS yet they wouldnt budge and didnt seem to be taking any worthwhile damage at all.

i ragequit after i seen that ..... retarded coding!!!

There's a limit to how many divisions can attack across a single front, so while you say it was two groups of 250 and that might have been how many were present and you told to attack, in effect it would have been something like 6 divisions actually attacking and 494 suffering masive attrition and standing around uselessly while not contributing to the battle.

Additionally, with that many units in a single province you would have been WAAAAAAY over the supply limit.

So overall it was probably something like your ~6ish out of supply units attacking 2 units with defensive advantaged. That's roughly a fair fight and I can see why it lasted a long time.

If you have a save, bring it up and click on the battle icon to see how many units are engaged and what modifiers are in effect on each side. If things aren't working how you think they should, there's usually a reason and checking the details will let you know why that is and let you plan better in the future.