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Well, we can debate the alternate possible outcome of WWII, but probably it will take a very long time and arguments on both sides will be just as valid. Once we cross the line of "what if", we'll inevitably fall in the realm of fantasy.
To avoid that long debate I have but one question. Do you believe Germany could have conquered USA in 1943 if the allied commanders had the intelligence of the current game AI? If the answer is yes, then the HoI4 war simulation gave you the perfect results: allies and soviets would have lost the war if they were mentally impaired.
Historical (im)plausibility is not the cause of the disappointments in the game, but is the effect of the AI being unable to provide a decent challenge. This is the root problem for everyone, no matter if they like sandbox or historical style.
I have no knowledge about how long it takes for a carrier to be built, so I'll take your word for it. The only thing I could find with a quick search is that US added by the end of war about 1200 combat ships to its navy out of which 27 were carriers and 8 battleships. Even if counting from 1st Jan 37 when it is said US started to greatly increase its naval production, this would give an average of 3 carriers per year.
As far as the game is concerned I really don't think it is possible to produce 1200 combat ships, even destroyers, by the end of 1945. From my calculations one would need 7 full production lines to achieve that number. So, if anything, the naval production strength of US is under represented.
The Tannu Tuva story, their whole adventure, is based on an exploit of manpower for expeditionary forces. It is not even a question of bad AI once you transfer the whole USSR manpower to yourself. Sure, it is developers' fault for it, but this is one of those exploits difficult to find even with extensive testing. Of course, it was bound to surface once 200k people start playing the game. I only wish this would be the biggest problem with the game.
The number of times this or something exactly like this has happened...
:-) Yes. And no. The majority of US carriers (Essex class) became operable 1943 ff despite being layed down 1940 ff.
And I disagree with your conclusion - as Germany in the middle of 41 I already have 5 full naval production lines running and if I now do little else than new shipyards I could come out with more than 1.200 ships 7/8 years forward. Please bear in mind that the vast majority of US warships constructed is not even in the game = escort destroyers (abbreviated DEs), landing ships minesweepers and layers, fast torpedo motor boats, coastal patrol vessels. All of which cost a fraction of a HOI destroyer level I in real life construction efforts.
So the emulation of production ramp ups during WW II is possible. The emulation of the construction of major warships (battlecruisers/-ships, fleet carriers) is impossible, you can have the first one after 5 months (5 in parallel if I take my example ! ).
Does it have a game impact? Uh - no with the current state of the AI. Yes if the AI would be a challenge - it makes a real difference if you have to wait for your most important warships 5 months or 2 1/2 years (3 in case of battleships).
And I forgot to mention that the complete construction system is utter nonsense. All major nations capabilities were in large parts the result of a switch from already existing civil production to military purposes. But with any major you can easily double your number of factories pre-war, nonsensical in RL terms. And don´t get me started on the fantasy build times of infrastructure in a complete state - one level in the speed of months. Same for ports or AA installations.
Regards,
Thorsten
When Germany goes to war with Poland, it seems the entire allied fighter force appears there. I've seen Western Poland with 1200 allied fighters. (first few days, no more than 250 which is what Poland are putting in the air)
UK constantly invades Italy with too few divisions at a time when Italy is making progress in southern France and right accross Africa.
US always interveen way too early with hitorical AI. And they always seem to send divisions to before they're at war too. With Historical on they shouldn't be doing that. Having Italy take on US divisions in Africa in 39 with historical foucus really shouldn't be happening.
Japan despite loosing too China sends divisions to Europe.
Over all i think they UI is heading in a better direction that HOI 3, but it's clunky at best at the moment. This game has the potential to be great. But it's not there yet. Especially if your trying to play along historical guidelines. The AI just can't seem to manage.
I'm glad that you decided to lay out just a small fraction of the worst problems that Hoi4 has Thorsten. I've had to type out lists like this so many times since June that I am sick and tired of doing it by now. Especially bc those incompetent lazy ♥♥♥♥♥ who call themselves the development team have at least a year of solid patching to do yet a month after their vacation ended haven't bothered to release a single fix. Not even a beta patch!!!!!!!
This game is in the exact state that it was at the end of July which means it's at pretty much the exact state it was when it came out. Very little has been fixed. Certainly not ANY of the biggest problems.
My Expectations for Historical Mode:
A USA Historical playthrough:
Also let me be clear bc as always so many people don't get it. I'm not saying that the whole campaign has to be on rails. I like the idea of a WW2 sandbox. HOWEVER.....When it goes off into alternate realities that are not even remotely plausible thats a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ problem.
If I choose historical focus mode and play as USA with the intent of following a historical path myself then the game should GENERALLY adhere to history up to 1942. I'm talking about broad strokes here not that every single little detail needs to be correct. It doesn't matter who's leading the armies of the Heer or whether they have the exact names and number of divisions that they did IRL. As long as they steamroll France in the summer of 1940 and take over the Low Countries as well as Scandinavia (minus Sweden obviously) then I'm a happy camper. It doesn't even matter whether German AI decides to crush France or Scandinavia first. As long as by the end of summer 1940 Germany has taken over its historical gains.
Italy comes in right when Germany is clearly winning at the end
Africa:
Britain and Italy fight to a stalemate that is not broken until USA invades and backs up GB.
North Africa seperated from South Saharan Africa. Not much is supposed to happen outside of North Africa.
Far East:
Sino-Japanese War becomes a stalemate. That is absolutely ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ critical. If it doesn't become one the loser is crippled or destroyed and the winner is incredibly powerful. Especially Japan.
AN ACTUAL PACIFIC ISLAND HOPPING NAVAL WAR.
Japan does practically nothing.
That's all that is needed for a country like USA that stays out until around 1942.
thats my point
Despite the fact that Denmark is not yet taken.
The whole invasion of Sweeden now suddenly hinged on me forcing Denmark to capitulate early so my few divisions wouldn't get trapped and cut off.
At the time of those invasions while the landing for both was still being contested. Sweeden sent 8 divisions into Demark.
By this time, Britain has made about a dozen attempts to land at Calais with far too few divisions. In the past it's been possible to have a passive AI that doesn't invade. I think now we've gone completly the other way where invasions no matter how week are thrown at the same location, irrespective on whether those troops are desperitly needed elsewhere. Like in Africa as Italy take province after province.
Italy were trounced easily by a small force of British and were only saved by the Germans. And even they were on the run by the time the Americans got involved.
Yeah, I had to ask about this in the forum, it is not very intuitive. If you want to force the units to go by sea, you need to CTRL+right click the destination port icon, not the province. Off the topic, but I hope it helps.
Thanks. That will defenatly be usefull.
However, as already mentioned AI is really weird sometimes. But this can sometimes be even advantageous. Stupid AI burns equipment and manpower by attacking you over and over without succes. Stupid allied major AI does not attack leaving you the opportunity to fight the enemy and get a higher war score.