Easy way to beat bigger stronger navies as a minor with just non-capital ships

[Emperor Zero]

after doing testing against the starting fleet of all the majors powers and trying to beat them in various ways and trying out different ships combinations ect, i found a very easy way to destroy the starting italian navy as a minor power with only 1936 and some 1938 tech. you only need 10 light cruisers and 30 destroyers. for your destroyer design just give them torpedos on every slot you can and then give them any light gun you want, give them fire control and radar and engine 1 if you want to make them cheap. for the cruisers just make them full light cruiser medium guns with fire control and radar for maxium light attack and piercing, the cruisers will melt through the enemies ♥♥♥♥♥♥ starting screens and then easily destroy the capital ships with the op torpedo destroyers. make sure your navy is smaller and do trade interdiction and any thing to increase their fleet size penalty. basically your navy is so much smaller they get huge penalties to damage so your crusiers can blow up all of their screens with ease and then their capitals are completely helpless against thousands of torpedos coming their way. its a easy and very cheap navy that punches way above its ic cost and works wonders against the ai but i haven't tested it in mp yet.




EDIT: trolls have took over the post but thanks for wasting your points troll.

[Emperor Zero]

引用自 Immortalis：

Dude, the only one who's being toxic and lacking basic respect for others here is you.

You presented your guide as the ultimate "do this and you'll win" (and nowhere in your OP statement you said that it's meant to work only as Greece against Italy). When asked to explain you stated that in order for the strategy to work you tagged to Italy, deactivated the AI deathstacked their entire navy, forbid them from retreating and set them to always engage (and since the AI was deactivated I'd say they were not going to repair damaged ships between battles either) before going back to playing as Greece.

The issue with your strategy is that it's no strategy at all.

It won't work against the AI because you had to deactivate it first to make it work. The AI will never perform in the way you set your test and as a result your plan will not work.

Nor will it work against players that are above the age of 5. Players will not deathstack their navy, will not force their ships to always engage, never retreat and never repair. So once again this "strategy" is useless.

The only case where your guide could work is if you're literally facing a braindead player or a deactivated AI. Nobody here attacked you personally (as opposed to how you answered any criticism) but your strategy simple does not work.

i tested it with and without the ai but when i said it was against the ai people attacked me because "its ai you aren't fighting the entire navy" and when i say i have tested it with no ai as well you now come and say "well the ai is off so you had to do that and cheat!" i have tried it in tests with ai against the italian navy and have had just vanilla runs no cheats where i played greece and beat the italian navy with this strategy and i have used it against players not to the same effect of course, because its a player and not ai but it achieved my goals of defending naval invasion from a major power, also i picked italy because i main greece and try different stratergies with them, you say its not a strategy but it quite literally is, build a smaller fleet that would ♥♥♥♥ up the main italian fleet if it tried to naval invade me as greece, it achieves that perfectly so the strategy while pretty simple like the majority of hoi4 strategys works, sorry its not 10000 steps on how if you do this specific thing at this specific time and your enemy has to go down this specific focus tree to actually be able to do the strat, im just having fun with the game and wanted to discuss with people but hoi4 players be hoi4 players and are toxic, rude and disrespectful because they spend to much time on the internet and not in real life. have respect, be kind and don't just be a douche to people online because you know you won't ever meet them in real life. alright cya i hope you have a better day because clearly you haven't been having many recently.

[Emperor Zero]

引用自 Fighteraviator120：

引用自 Sextus Pompeius Magnus：

you are being disrespectful and toxic, the fact you deny it is pathetic, also no i have tested it against the ai and with ai off, but either way you say "well the ai sucks so that doesn't mean much" so i say "well i tested it without ai as well" "WELL THE AI IS OFF AND IT WOULD NEVER DO THAT!!!" you see how dumb you are? i literally can't win with you because you just say it doesn't work when i have literally tested it in multiple situations and now i have tested it agaisnt players, it works, so honestly you can talk all the ♥♥♥♥ you want, but you didn't test it, you didn't do it, you just assumed a bunch of ♥♥♥♥ to fit your narrative and you came here purely to start a argument be toxic and insult people, so just leave, i can stand here knowing my actual strategy worked because i tested it against the ai that is on and off and against players and it has worked but i bet you will find some way for this to not actually be proof it works!

toxic wall of text, cope

ah "cope" you are those kinda people, douches who look for arguments then say cope alright you have proven you aren't worth reasoning with enjoy being a unhappy troll, who is a ♥♥♥♥ to others online.

[Emperor Zero]

引用自 Fighteraviator120：

bruh how is this still going on?

because you are a bunch of trolls looking for a argument enjoy the block stop trying to get attention

[All talk and no fight]

I'm not reading through this entire comment chain, but the changes made a week or 2 ago greatly increased the capabilities of Naval AA. try to use naval bombers in the current patch, in MP and they will all be destroyed and no ships sunk against someone who knows navy, because proper naval AA on screens, but especially capital ships will ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annihilate naval bombers.

Just from my experience in single player, I sail the Italian navy into the english channel- all capital ships were refitted to only have their starting AA's upgraded along with fire control and radar, I didn't give them extra AA slots so only 2 aa's per battleship. The destroyers in the fleet were all early destroyers with no refits.
The British couldn't sink a single ship, but I was shooting 10-20+ bombers at a time, stopping every now and then for repairs.
In MP you might face an opponent who uses 1000 naval bombers at a time, as compared to the ai experience of the U.K where they only had about 300 naval bombers, but in MP you can just put even more AA modules on your capital ships, and build proper destroyers with AA too.

[Fighteraviator120]

引用自 Sextus Pompeius Magnus：

引用自 Fighteraviator120：

toxic wall of text, cope

ah "cope" you are those kinda people, douches who look for arguments then say cope alright you have proven you aren't worth reasoning with enjoy being a unhappy troll, who is a ♥♥♥♥ to others online.

you are the unhappy troll here, a narcissist and hypocrite that cant accept hes wrong. even if your navy worked i havent seen an actual argument other than insults

[Fighteraviator120]

引用自 Sextus Pompeius Magnus：

引用自 Fighteraviator120：

bruh how is this still going on?

because you are a bunch of trolls looking for a argument enjoy the block stop trying to get attention

and arent you looking for attention? you knew what was going to happen when you made this post, if you really cared about the navy you would have posted it on guides

[Emperor Zero]

引用自 All talk and no fight：

I'm not reading through this entire comment chain, but the changes made a week or 2 ago greatly increased the capabilities of Naval AA. try to use naval bombers in the current patch, in MP and they will all be destroyed and no ships sunk against someone who knows navy, because proper naval AA on screens, but especially capital ships will ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annihilate naval bombers.

Just from my experience in single player, I sail the Italian navy into the english channel- all capital ships were refitted to only have their starting AA's upgraded along with fire control and radar, I didn't give them extra AA slots so only 2 aa's per battleship. The destroyers in the fleet were all early destroyers with no refits.
The British couldn't sink a single ship, but I was shooting 10-20+ bombers at a time, stopping every now and then for repairs.
In MP you might face an opponent who uses 1000 naval bombers at a time, as compared to the ai experience of the U.K where they only had about 300 naval bombers, but in MP you can just put even more AA modules on your capital ships, and build proper destroyers with AA too.

alright thanks man, i was more so giving advice then asking but this is still helpful!

[Emperor Zero]

引用自 Fighteraviator120：

引用自 Sextus Pompeius Magnus：

ah "cope" you are those kinda people, douches who look for arguments then say cope alright you have proven you aren't worth reasoning with enjoy being a unhappy troll, who is a ♥♥♥♥ to others online.

you are the unhappy troll here, a narcissist and hypocrite that cant accept hes wrong. even if your navy worked i havent seen an actual argument other than insults

i bet you haven't even read my post, what have i said that is narcissistic or hypocritical? HOW am i the troll here? read my post, i made a normal post talking about navy and then you see your replies and others being trolls and trying to start a argument for their egos, you are projecting your own narcissism onto me and the fact you are a unhappy troll.

[Fighteraviator120]

引用自 Sextus Pompeius Magnus：

引用自 Fighteraviator120：

you are the unhappy troll here, a narcissist and hypocrite that cant accept hes wrong. even if your navy worked i havent seen an actual argument other than insults

i bet you haven't even read my post, what have i said that is narcissistic or hypocritical? HOW am i the troll here? read my post, i made a normal post talking about navy and then you see your replies and others being trolls and trying to start a argument for their egos, you are projecting your own narcissism onto me and the fact you are a unhappy troll.

you just proved my point, if it didnt give you steam point i would have gave you the clown reward long ago

[Emperor Zero]

引用自 Fighteraviator120：

引用自 Sextus Pompeius Magnus：

because you are a bunch of trolls looking for a argument enjoy the block stop trying to get attention

and arent you looking for attention? you knew what was going to happen when you made this post, if you really cared about the navy you would have posted it on guides

what kind of argument is this? where in post was i looking for attention or knew i was going to get trolls? read the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ post i just told people my strategy, if i had any idea this was gonna happen i wouldve never posted, i legit JUST wanted to have a nice discussion with people, but go ahead and assume how i some how knew this was gonna happen or that if i actually cared i would post on guides? like jesus just read what you said and you say you aren't a troll? you must be so delusional, to tell me what i knew and how i felt before posting, the audacity is unreal, i posted this is 100% good faith unlike your comments

[Emperor Zero]

引用自 Fighteraviator120：

引用自 Sextus Pompeius Magnus：

i bet you haven't even read my post, what have i said that is narcissistic or hypocritical? HOW am i the troll here? read my post, i made a normal post talking about navy and then you see your replies and others being trolls and trying to start a argument for their egos, you are projecting your own narcissism onto me and the fact you are a unhappy troll.

you just proved my point, if it didnt give you steam point i would have gave you the clown reward long ago

how did that prove your point what? please tell me where in my post that would make people decide to attack me? like seriously, your comment saying "you knew what was going to happen when you made this post" like ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hell that is the most insane ♥♥♥♥, you realise you sound ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ insane? and "if you really cared about navy you would have posted it on guides" i wanted to discuss navy you psycho how does not posting on guides make me not care about navy? you are beyond insane and delusional, you must be doing this because you get off on arguments, you said i have proved your point but all you have proved mine, that you are insane or just a sad little troll just saying random ♥♥♥♥ to argue because you are bored, it clear with the language you use like "cope" you must just spend your time on the internet trying to start arguments and saying the most stupid stuff that makes zero sense, assumes 1 trillion things and has zero nuance. you are the perfect example of how the internet has effected the way people think to just "attack attack no nuance they must have bad attentions and a agenda purely because they made a discussion post about navy on the discussion forum rather then guide forum!" you realise how insane you are? you really aren't worth it im done arguing with a troll and a manchild, take a look at your own comments and maybe if you had a ounce of self awareness and common sense you will see how delusional and crazy you sound. tldr I MADE A POST BECAUSE I WAS TESTING NAVY AND WAS HAVING FUN SO I POSTED A STRAT I FOUND THATS IT NO AGENDA NO ME KNOWING IT WAS GONNA START A ARGUMENT WITH TROLLS OR ANY THING LIKE THAT! there you go buddy and the fact you are like "i would give you the clown award but you get worthless steam points!" yeah you are just doing this out of pure hate and pettiness. grow up.

[Fighteraviator120]

引用自 Sextus Pompeius Magnus：

引用自 Fighteraviator120：

you just proved my point, if it didnt give you steam point i would have gave you the clown reward long ago

how did that prove your point what? please tell me where in my post that would make people decide to attack me? like seriously, your comment saying "you knew what was going to happen when you made this post" like ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hell that is the most insane ♥♥♥♥, you realise you sound ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ insane? and "if you really cared about navy you would have posted it on guides" i wanted to discuss navy you psycho how does not posting on guides make me not care about navy? you are beyond insane and delusional, you must be doing this because you get off on arguments, you said i have proved your point but all you have proved mine, that you are insane or just a sad little troll just saying random ♥♥♥♥ to argue because you are bored, it clear with the language you use like "cope" you must just spend your time on the internet trying to start arguments and saying the most stupid stuff that makes zero sense, assumes 1 trillion things and has zero nuance. you are the perfect example of how the internet has effected the way people think to just "attack attack no nuance they must have bad attentions and a agenda purely because they made a discussion post about navy on the discussion forum rather then guide forum!" you realise how insane you are? you really aren't worth it im done arguing with a troll and a manchild, take a look at your own comments and maybe if you had a ounce of self awareness and common sense you will see how delusional and crazy you sound. tldr I MADE A POST BECAUSE I WAS TESTING NAVY AND WAS HAVING FUN SO I POSTED A STRAT I FOUND THATS IT NO AGENDA NO ME KNOWING IT WAS GONNA START A ARGUMENT WITH TROLLS OR ANY THING LIKE THAT! there you go buddy and the fact you are like "i would give you the clown award but you get worthless steam points!" yeah you are just doing this out of pure hate and pettiness. grow up.

another wall of text

[Fighteraviator120]

引用自 Sextus Pompeius Magnus：

引用自 Fighteraviator120：

and arent you looking for attention? you knew what was going to happen when you made this post, if you really cared about the navy you would have posted it on guides

what kind of argument is this? where in post was i looking for attention or knew i was going to get trolls? read the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ post i just told people my strategy, if i had any idea this was gonna happen i wouldve never posted, i legit JUST wanted to have a nice discussion with people, but go ahead and assume how i some how knew this was gonna happen or that if i actually cared i would post on guides? like jesus just read what you said and you say you aren't a troll? you must be so delusional, to tell me what i knew and how i felt before posting, the audacity is unreal, i posted this is 100% good faith unlike your comments

you asked for attention the moment you posted and couldnt take any criticism, and yes i read the post if you wanted a discussion you would have asked a question at least to know what other people think but instead you push your barely tested "strategy" as the ultimate way to use the navy

[Immortalis]

Once again, the only one being disrespectful here is you, my friend. Criticising your strategy doesn't mean that I am insulting you and if you cannot make that distinction I am sorry but that's on you.

As for the actual argument, that's not what you said. You never stated that you tested it against the AI nor against any actual player since in the very first page you said:

引用自 Sextus Pompeius Magnus：

when? also it wasn't the naval ai ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ it was a death stack i turned ai off before the battle so i could death stack italy and make them always engage and never retreat, like seriously wtf are these comments? full of salty little losers who suck at navy and get mad when other people suggest a tactic that isn't nav or subs

You. Turned. Off. The. AI. Before. The. Battle.

As incompetent as the naval AI might be against a player, turning it off doesn't make the game harder, quite the opposite. And on top of that you clearly stated that you i) deathstacked Italy's navy (so that they would suffer enormous penalties); ii) forced them to always engage; ii) prevent them from retreating.

The only assumption I've made is that you prevented them from repairing as well but TBH even if that wasn't true I still feel that you've setup the engagement to really work in your favour. Good, bad, I don't care. But once again the AI will not deathstack its navies (and yes, you can still beat them with a bit of competent naval play, your guide is not something really revolutionary here) and a player with a bare minimum of experience in naval warfare won't make those mistakes either.

But hey, if you're happy and like to play this way, good for you. I hope you enjoy the game.

[Emperor Zero]

引用自 Immortalis：

Once again, the only one being disrespectful here is you, my friend. Criticising your strategy doesn't mean that I am insulting you and if you cannot make that distinction I am sorry but that's on you.

As for the actual argument, that's not what you said. You never stated that you tested it against the AI nor against any actual player since in the very first page you said:

引用自 Sextus Pompeius Magnus：

when? also it wasn't the naval ai ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ it was a death stack i turned ai off before the battle so i could death stack italy and make them always engage and never retreat, like seriously wtf are these comments? full of salty little losers who suck at navy and get mad when other people suggest a tactic that isn't nav or subs

You. Turned. Off. The. AI. Before. The. Battle.

As incompetent as the naval AI might be against a player, turning it off doesn't make the game harder, quite the opposite. And on top of that you clearly stated that you i) deathstacked Italy's navy (so that they would suffer enormous penalties); ii) forced them to always engage; ii) prevent them from retreating.

The only assumption I've made is that you prevented them from repairing as well but TBH even if that wasn't true I still feel that you've setup the engagement to really work in your favour. Good, bad, I don't care. But once again the AI will not deathstack its navies (and yes, you can still beat them with a bit of competent naval play, your guide is not something really revolutionary here) and a player with a bare minimum of experience in naval warfare won't make those mistakes either.

But hey, if you're happy and like to play this way, good for you. I hope you enjoy the game.

you clearly didn't read because i said i have done it with ai on and off and both times it has been effective, but whatever man you aren't gonna listen no point trying to reason with you or use logic or stop you assuming and ignoring what i have said. have a good one but please in future, read what people are saying and don't just assume ♥♥♥♥ and if you really can't do that then just don't comment. alright bye. (also i got 1k hours and yeah i do enjoy the game and the naval system)