Best CPUs to mitigate paradox's poor code optimisation?

[EmotionallyBroken]

Plenty of sites and charts gives references to general gaming or even undisclosed test methods.

With the code paradox uses , which cpus are best at mitigating paradoxs turtle code?

Where do you get your information references?

What are you using, and how well does it run in 1945+ ?

EDIT:Please refrain from posting marginal information like graphics cards, hard drives, internet connections,ect.

This is a thread about improving game running speed in HOI4. As in "in game hours" per second late game.

[Geobor]

Originally posted by Varenvel The Festive Dinosaur:

they explained how it works in latest dev diary , im going to link you it but they said everything i been telling people on forums

That multithreading is the issue , and alweys been , my older pc ran hoi4 more then twice as fast as my current better pc

but now we know the reason why multithreading is a problem , its becouse synchronization and desynchronization isues , so bulk of the game runs on 1-2 threads and they cant really change it as it would cause a lot problems with desynch with multiplayer

new DLC/patch who will come out very very soon will make game run almost twice as fast maybe even more

anyhow here is the stream

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1562594805

i belive relevant part starts after ethiopia , 20? 22? mins ish




this problem is not also sole to hoi4 , most menagment games not like multicore procesors as each core is weaker and its hard to balance usage of many cores , for simple games like FPS it does not matter

but if your managing a menagment game where 1 single error in comunication between cores can cause desync , it becomes an issue

dwarf fortress has exacly...same problem as older PCs run DF better then modern ones

and this applies pretty much to any game who uses a lot cpu , factorio , sim city , any big scale menagment games who use alot CPU

This is not completely correct. I have written a lot of multi threaded code and multi threaded code used for multiplayer. The desync issue is definitely true and hoi 4 does only really use 1 or 2 threads well with the rest of them doing unimportant tasks. But what is not true is that older cpus ran hoi 4 faster. The current cpus we have have much faster cores and many more of them. If you really think your older computer ran hoi 4 faster it is most likely not that the CPU got slower, but the recent updates of hoi 4 are slower.

In a simulation game like hoi 4 there is usually a set of steps that must happen in order for the simulation to progress every tick. On a single thread you just complete the steps in order but on multiple threads you can't just do all the steps at once each on different threads because step 1 must complete before step 2 and it is possible that step 2 is faster to complete.

For example you must calculate supply before battles because the supply factors into the battle so they can't be done on different threads. You would likely have to split the supply and battles into different regions like continents that different threads handle at the same time but that would still bring up the issue that one continent may finish faster relative to another, changing your equipment stockpiles and manpower and such, while on another person's computer the other continent may finish first leading to desync. The simulation must lead to the same outcome every time to avoid desync. There is tricks to work around these things but that would require a new engine.

[EmotionallyBroken]

Originally posted by Varenvel The Festive Dinosaur:

my older pc ran hoi4 more then twice as fast as my current better pc

How is that better?

Originally posted by Varenvel The Festive Dinosaur:

dwarf fortress has exacly...same problem as older PCs run DF better then modern ones

Why would it?

Thanks for all the useful links, the guys at paradox talking about it is a really outstanding addition to this thread topic :)

Honestly this thread has a lot of outstanding information being posted. Makes me wonder if Im really on steam. xD

Im so used to
"You cant change software"
"Download more ram"
"Alt F4"
"Editing the settings is super l33t hacks"
"If you see imperfections , you must hate the game and you have to stop playing, how dare you suggest improving anything"
"Im going to reply to your question be restating it, and pretending that a solution"


So, I just want to thank you all for those incredibly in depth and relevant posts, and the decent posters too :)

[EmotionallyBroken]

Originally posted by Geobor:

For example you must calculate supply before battles because the supply factors into the battle so they can't be done on different threads..

this is a game of averages anyway, I think supply would actually slow dow nthe game much less if it was caclulated on another core, so what if youre using yesterdays supply values sometimes? maybe some once in a blue moon difference of note, it takes time for adjustments to happen anyway. With the new supply chain system , which is pleasantly more in depth, but also more calculation intense, putting supply on another core would be great (if its not already done that way)
There is plenty o stuff that doesntn eed to be exactly syncrhonized, diplomacy, supply, manpower and PP calculation , really the only thing i can think of off the top of my head is combat, and I suppose movement, cause that makes a big difference on combat starting and who wins getting where first,ect. There is so much leeways for loose sychronisation . Im curious to hear what was said in that video link, I think ill watch it now :)


but why would that have any effect at all on multi player? Isnt it all calculated on the host machine?

[Geobor]

Originally posted by EmotionallyBroken:

but why would that have any effect at all on multi player? Isnt it all calculated on the host machine?

No not fully at least because that would require the host to update and then send the entire game state to other computers which would use way to much internet connection. I do think that the host does do this partially though because often times I find that much slower cpus keep up with much faster cpus in multiplayer so they obviously aren't doing the same calculations. Also desync wouldn't be possible if it was all calculated on the host.

[EmotionallyBroken]

Originally posted by Geobor:

Originally posted by EmotionallyBroken:

but why would that have any effect at all on multi player? Isnt it all calculated on the host machine?

No not fully at least because that would require the host to update and then send the entire game state to other computers which would use way to much internet connection.

Isnt that why the host is often weeks or months ahead of the other players?

Originally posted by Geobor:

Originally posted by EmotionallyBroken:

but why would that have any effect at all on multi player? Isnt it all calculated on the host machine?

Also desync wouldn't be possible if it was all calculated on the host.

I suppose that makes sense, unless they did something really stupid.

[mk11]

The problem with doing everything on the host is that the other players would get a lag when making any change.

However, anything that uses the RNG either needs to be executed in the same order on all machines (so no multi-threading) or needs to be executed on a single machine.

[»SoD« Mike Hunt]

You can increase performance quite a bit by using mods that remove neutrals, the main problem isn't so much code optimisation but unit production, the AI just doesn't seem to stop.

[Kosmo Kramer]

"If the game slows down that much, you are not winning fast enough."

[EmotionallyBroken]

Originally posted by Kosmo Kramer:

"If the game slows down that much, you are not winning fast enough."

Logic of high standards.
Cant really argue with that point. :)

[EmotionallyBroken]

Originally posted by Geobor:

The 5800x3d which is what I have. I actually have a video showcasing it and explaining why its good. Alternatively you could try the super fast intel cpus like the 12900k or 12700k or just wait for the new Intel and AMD cpus which should release on September 27th. The 13900k/13700k will be very fast but the Ryzen 7000 series with 3D vCache will release later which helps a lot with hoi 4 so I wouldn't pick up the normal Ryzen 7000s at launch.

The 5800x3d runs 1945 like my old r5 3600 ran 1938

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxTwUpyg40o&t

Now i hae to pick a cooling system for it.