Focus Trees are lame

[Citizen X]

This game is so divided. What even is HOI4? Because here is Paradox yet again creating useless, boring, and absurd focus trees for minor nations who never participated in WW2. Development time is being spent on focus trees for swiss, instead of tweaking and fleshing out existing mechanics in the game.

I give absolutely 0 ♥♥♥♥♥ about focus trees, particularly ones that make a minor nation OP just so it can be played. This is not the reason I play the game, and I honestly cant believe people play HOI4 for these trees..

If this game is just a focus tree completer, then i think im ready for another title

[zuniger]

Maybe its because im new but the focus trees are the best part. I just brought back the kasier in my last playthrough lol.

[Citizen X]

Originally posted by Octavius Rex:

Maybe its because im new but the focus trees are the best part. I just brought back the kasier in my last playthrough lol.

Honestly, good for you. If you play HOI4 and it makes you happy, awesome. I have 2300 hrs in this game and in my opinion, HOI4 has alot more to offer than clicking a focus every 70 days and stuff happening.

I also can easily see how the focus system can be replaced by a fleshed out economic and diplomatic system. The focus trees feel like they are there to progress the game, because those things cannot be done unless through a focus.

The trees for minor nations in particular are just buttons to press in order to get land / make your self strong enough to even play the late game. This is flawed imo

[Prince Rupert]

I agree its a horrible game mechanic. Its simply railroading under the guise of "player choice." You basically sit there waiting for focuses to complete an arbitrary 70 days to give some "reward". Factories that appear from thin air or magical bonuses and modifiers for your nation. The newer trees are even worse with endless fluff that actually doesn't doing anything besides progress time. It makes for terrible gameplay and therefore terrible game design. Hoi4 pretends to be a strategy game when its really just a thinly veiled rpg that allows people to fantasise about a-historical outcomes without any grounding in reality.

[Citizen X]

Originally posted by Prince Rupert:

Couldnt have said it better. The focus tree system is there to do things the game itself cannot because of weak systems. Economy, diplomacy, etc, all weak systems barely present in the game. Totally flawed design and it really gets on my nerves

[Včelí medvídek]

HoI was always more sandbox experience than ww2 simulator and alternate paths were what people liked most - it was also the baseground for mod community leading back to HOI2.

You may have preference what you like but HoI4 is extremely popular and played -almost miracle for Grand strategy game that is in 7th year since release and long term growing playerbase... hence once could say what Paradox do it is not random or unwanted, no matter what vocal minority thinks.

Last but not least - every major DLC bring some major mechanic rework or expansion, focus tress are just flavor that is often build on it/utilize it. Only exception was BfB that was done by freelancers and not main dev team.

[hannibal_pjv]

True. Hoi2 was last pure "simulation" of Hoi series... But HOI4 is fun make believe game. I like them both. The movement to Hoi3 after Hoi2 was too much for me at that time, but when I did happen to have more time during the Corona pandemic, I did took time to learn Hoi4 and have been happy playr of that! But it is completely different game compared to Hoi2.

[caroraim]

+1. HOI4= Sandbox game with WW2 skins

[Včelí medvídek]

Originally posted by hannibal_pjv:

True. Hoi2 was last pure "simulation" of Hoi series... But HOI4 is fun make believe game. I like them both. The movement to Hoi3 after Hoi2 was too much for me at that time, but when I did happen to have more time during the Corona pandemic, I did took time to learn Hoi4 and have been happy playr of that! But it is completely different game compared to Hoi2.

Even back by HoI2 the game was kept alive due mods like Keiserreich and in expansions including Doomsday, Armaggedon and iron Cross devs themselves were leaning toward minor countries and "fantasy" scenarios like "hot cold war" and even more unhostorical stuff.

As for the Focus trees itself - I like it from first moment. It is way better than not transparent events based on variable conditions and force player to prioritize and select his strategy - the forced choice is the strength and balance (or "story" as well).

Btw - Paradox release telemetry data time to time, about 50% game sessions are minors - that is simply a fact. For me it was always the biggest fun as well - sure I played every major like once but all those like "what if Czechoslovakia defend, Argentina become Axis minor power, etc, etc. are where true fun with game is.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/hoi4-dev-diary-telemetry-and-data.1511747/

Or look on most subscribed mods in HoI4 - R56 with alternate focus trees for every small country in the world, Keiserreich, Millenium dawn as modern semi-fantasy and OWB from Fallout universe..

yeah some players like hsitrocial imemrsion or mdos like BICE - that is onyl whre I play majors too, but it is not majority.

+ request for give us focus tree for XXX country on daily basis.. Pdx know their customers:p

[Citizen X]

Originally posted by Včelí medvídek:

I completely disagree. Theres alot about this game that many people ignore when attempting achievements or ahistorical world conquest runs. The focus trees and the military grand strategy are 2 completely different parts of this single game.

Since the devs continue to pump out ♥♥♥♥♥♥ focus trees, it tells me that you are correct in saying that people are here for the focuses. And thats fine. Like I said, you can have HOI4. Im someone looking for the military strategy sandbox, and if its not here then thats ok.

You are more then welcome to buy $120 worth of content for some buttons to click every 70 days and ignore everything else

[Citizen X]

Originally posted by Včelí medvídek:

H

As i already mentioned, the focus trees are there to drive the game forward, because the game isnt capable of doing it itself.

For Example, Bulgaria has to complete a set of focuses in order to ask for military aid from a major power. This focus is here because its not possible to reach out to nations and purchase equipment in the base game. There is no money, no procurement, no economic deals. Instead of creating a focus tree to supplement, I think Paradox needs to make a more fleshed out game. The game should be a sandbox organically through incremental decision making and not need focuses to complete to buy weapons.

This brings me to my second reason. The focus trees are there to aid players in achieving the impossible. There was 0 chance of Russia restoring the Orthodox Church or whatever, so instead you complete a set of focuses that magically make the switch happen. Its lame, its boring, its childish, and i wish that it wasnt in the game.

I hope paradox can divide the 2 concepts into 2 separate games

[Citizen X]

Instead of completing focuses to create the Pact of Rome, why cant I as Italy entice Hungary to join my faction by offering Yugoslavian land? Why as Italy do I need wait a minimum amount of days in order to "Befriend Greece" and influence their politics?

Because the game is so bare bones, that i cant do anything to entice potential allies, and i cant do anything to befriend Greece and promote Fascism. Yes, there are a few select things like the spy system, but basically 0 mechanics for complex diplomacy. The focus trees are here to supplement the bare bones game and enable players to actually change the political landscape

[$100 Bill]

Originally posted by Prince Rupert:

I agree its a horrible game mechanic. Its simply railroading under the guise of "player choice." You basically sit there waiting for focuses to complete an arbitrary 70 days to give some "reward". Factories that appear from thin air or magical bonuses and modifiers for your nation. The newer trees are even worse with endless fluff that actually doesn't doing anything besides progress time. It makes for terrible gameplay and therefore terrible game design. Hoi4 pretends to be a strategy game when its really just a thinly veiled rpg that allows people to fantasise about a-historical outcomes without any grounding in reality.

Well said.

[iLLaMaZz]

"Focus trees are lame" sounds more like you are lame...

[Včelí medvídek]

Originally posted by kyleperry19:

Instead of completing focuses to create the Pact of Rome, why cant I as Italy entice Hungary to join my faction by offering Yugoslavian land? Why as Italy do I need wait a minimum amount of days in order to "Befriend Greece" and influence their politics?

Because the game is so bare bones, that i cant do anything to entice potential allies, and i cant do anything to befriend Greece and promote Fascism. Yes, there are a few select things like the spy system, but basically 0 mechanics for complex diplomacy. The focus trees are here to supplement the bare bones game and enable players to actually change the political landscape

yes focus tree do exactly what you could say by name already - it is abstraction of national development or "focus" toward some target. It is coherent and very intuitive part of the game (dont feel it would be separated at all - in opposite it doi soem thigns on background while player focus ona ctual war and combat), it drive game forward, help with balancing, allow player set his personal strategy , visualise the path and timeline, make the storytelling, roleplay and sense of progression.. and it works very well in that all as single universal concept. (of course we can praise or criticise specific focus trees or focuses but that is not the point)

It fixed the mess of scripted event chains with prerequisite flags leading to same decision as today or AI behaviour flaws and imho it is brilliant Idea how make game interesting, allowing things like historical and ahistorical paths go together in one session and make it unique based solely on focus tree each country choose to follow.

Otherwise yes, I am very happy with HoI4 development since release and can not ever imagine back to previous titles (even though I spent hundreds hours with them I am as well aware of all bugs, cheating and flaws they had). If I paid 120 bucks as you say for my 2100 hours or something of fun (and more will come) it was possibly one of best investment I made into my gaming hobby ever.

No one force you play it if you found it too "childish" or whatever - there is couple other 4x or grand strategy titles with ww2 theme. No reason why you should spend time in game you dislike.

Focus trees simply works and are popular for most - that is reason Pdx introduced them to EUIV and Rome as well.

[SaD-82]

Originally posted by Včelí medvídek:

Focus trees simply works and are popular for most - that is reason Pdx introduced them to EUIV and Rome as well.

Those are bad examples.
Rome is dead and in EU 4 mission trees aren't mandatory to progress. They are bonuses you can get if you play the game with all mechanics and therefore unlock them through gameplay.
Here focus trees are the gameplay. Without actual gameplay.
You praise those trees...okay.
But tell me: Wouldn't the game be a better game if you could actually do the things those focus trees are just pretending to do? Why, for example, can't you just build certain things or trade for certain things or influence certain nations by yourself, but have to wait for an arbitrary amount of time to have it unlocked by itself? Where is the gameplay in this? Those focus trees in HOI 4 are just what a mobile game is for: Click on something, wait an amount of time, click again, wait an amount of time, click again - and then calling it progression.

Did you ever play EU 4? That's a game. A real one.
HOI 4 pretends to be one. It has gameplay in terms of moving armies around, but other than that? Ever played HOI 2 or 3? In those you could do things (and forget those events you're complaining about. If you would delete those events you still would be able to do something. To influence the game world around you - and not just through moving your armies around. And not just wait until you click a button and something happens through sheer magic).
You want to know why those trees are popular? Because people have an attention span of a squirrel nowadays. That's hardly good at all. It's concerning.