Templates driving me insane

[Wehr Wulf]

Hey everyone, hope youre all doing good.

So im still pretty new to HOI4... only doing SP for now. Right now in my games the thing I am stuck on is templates... So, I do some research and my God, theres just no good answer it seems.

Heres what I want to know: is it really that big of a deal? If im playing SP and design a standard military template, do I really REALLY need to sit there and make all these different 7/2, 10/0, up/down, yes/no templates and figuring out combat width (OMFG the combat width).

For someone like me who is still kinda new, just playing as Germany against the AI, is there just a few templates I can use that will work okay? I dont need 100% optimized... Does every player need to understand/apply all the combat width stuff for every single template?

How many templates does a standard player use? Are you constantly making new templaes as the game goes on for every new situation? How do you keep track of them all?

As Germany I just want a basic army, and medium/heavy tank division.. but people are saying to use CW of 10, small divisions like 7/2...

Its just a lot to take in. Ill be enjoying my games up until the point I have extra XP and I minimize the game to look up templates. Then I get irritated and just walk away and find something else to do. Seems like a bit too much work to sit and figure out all this stuff every time I need a template ya know? I enjoy depth to my games, but for Christs sake, not THAT much depth ya know?

[zugzuglifeUK]

just use 9 INF 1 Art, engineer, support art, recon and use cas and fighters easy

[SVaughan]

Originally posted by Zezima:

Hey everyone, hope youre all doing good.

So im still pretty new to HOI4... only doing SP for now. Right now in my games the thing I am stuck on is templates... So, I do some research and my God, theres just no good answer it seems.

Heres what I want to know: is it really that big of a deal? If im playing SP and design a standard military template, do I really REALLY need to sit there and make all these different 7/2, 10/0, up/down, yes/no templates and figuring out combat width (OMFG the combat width).

For someone like me who is still kinda new, just playing as Germany against the AI, is there just a few templates I can use that will work okay? I dont need 100% optimized... Does every player need to understand/apply all the combat width stuff for every single template?

How many templates does a standard player use? Are you constantly making new templaes as the game goes on for every new situation? How do you keep track of them all?

As Germany I just want a basic army, and medium/heavy tank division.. but people are saying to use CW of 10, small divisions like 7/2...

Its just a lot to take in. Ill be enjoying my games up until the point I have extra XP and I minimize the game to look up templates. Then I get irritated and just walk away and find something else to do. Seems like a bit too much work to sit and figure out all this stuff every time I need a template ya know? I enjoy depth to my games, but for Christs sake, not THAT much depth ya know?

I have this tendency to death stack my divisions. Before the supply rework happened, my most advanced Tank division Templates were Tank Destroyers in the front row, Heavy Artillery Tanks behind that, Medium Anti-Air Tanks behind those, and then standard Medium tanks to fill in the rest.

But my crazy self also likes to death stack Submarines. So my advice is null.

[Wehr Wulf]

Originally posted by zugzuglifeUK:

just use 9 INF 1 Art, engineer, support art, recon and use cas and fighters easy

Sounds good to me. And this is a good "all around" division? What kind of recon? cav, light armor etc?
Thanks!!
Have something similar for tanks? Im germany, I guess medium tank will be the best

[mk11]

SP you do not need to fuss about templates much.

I use a NATO symbols mod that gives me lots of different and colour coded NATO symbols that I use to keep track.

CAV Recon for infantry divisions, armoured or motorised recon for tank divisions. I like to add AA to my divisions so I can be a little less careful with air superiority.

Something like 5 tank/5 motorised/1 motorised AA/Engineers, armoured recon, flame tank (if you have NSB), logistics should be fine. Initially this is light tanks but move to medium as available. You can either change a battalion at a time in all divisions or change all battalions a division at a time.

[Elajden]

I usually work with like 3-5 division templates and it's okay even against the Expert AI. One basic infantry for garrison. One good infantry with all the support companies and types of guns and with more infantry. One special forces template. Early tank, late tank.
You may, however, create placeholder templates to spare some military experience. Like don't delete the old templates, always only add one battalion at time and save it (for example "infantry 1.1", "infantry 1.2"). This way if you want to specialize some units later on, you don't have to change the whole division again, just pick the closest point in the evolution of your unit to what you're trying to put together. For example if you go from 0 support companies to 5 support companies and then run out of support equipment and want to keep only the engineers and hospitals... You either have to change your original empty template for 20 experience (adding the two companies) or the newest one for 30 experience (removing three companies). What you could have done instead is to save a new template after adding each company and just choose the one with engineers and hospitals when the need arises.
PS Also don't try to change tank division all at once. Create a new template for your new class of armor, but change your divisions 1 by 1 to it as the production allows. Otherwise you will sit on a huge pile of new armor in storage, waiting for the number needed for all your divisions. It's better to put the stuff in action as fast as you can.

[TasteDasRainbow]

Originally posted by Zezima:

Sounds good to me. And this is a good "all around" division? What kind of recon? cav, light armor etc?
Thanks!!
Have something similar for tanks? Im germany, I guess medium tank will be the best

You would be looking to upgrade this division over time to have more arty, around a 9/3 group. You can expand it further into 11/1 early, which later could be 11/3, as well as if you want to add an in line AT and/or AA as the production allows/situation demands.

For tanks, most people like to use 6-10 battalions of motorized, and match that with tanks, typically medium, using some recon light tanks, sup art, logistics, sometimes signal. I personally prefer to 'split' the majority of motorized out of my tank divisions though so I can put in more tanks, and simply pair actual motorized divisions with each armored division. While it does massively detract on their organization, the additional breakthrough can often make up for a lot of that, as well as the massive uptick in soft attack, hardness, and armor.

Depending on how complex you want to go, you can look to build and use some heavy tanks, self propelled tank artillery, and anti tank tank hunters, but it's not entirely necessary to be that optimal. A lot of people have been liking flame tanks for support companies as well, due to the terrain modifiers that they give.

[meatshield]

ok I'll explain it to you. this game is stupid easy to win. when you load the game, before you do anything else, before you even start the timer ... scroll accross to the USA, click "diplomacy" scroll down to "boost popularity" and start boosting fascism in USA. It will take four years, but fascists win next election, and the USA will sit out the war.

you just defeated the biggest power in the game, and never fired a shot.

after that, build whatever templates you want, for germany they are all garbage, but you need manpower in the field. do spainish civil war to get some army xp.

whenever you send a general, give him a field marshall, so you can get even more traits faster.

Use field marshall model for your defence troops.

Heres the nomenclature for your division templates

(combat width)(type)-( (support companies) )- ( additional bats)
so 10wINF-(NG)LTD means 10 wide infantry, engineer support, one Light tank destroyer
10wINF-(NG)(RT) means 10w infantry, engineer and artillery support

as soon as you can make a garrison template - 10wCAV-(MP), swtich your garrison to that.

and your most basic infantry template ... 10wINF-(NG) ... this is your standard goto infantry template, from this template, all other templates will be built. these guys are perfect for gaurd duty, and filling holes.
you will want to upgrade them to 10wINF-(NG)(RT) as soon as you can. this will be your standard "line" infantry. but only as your artillery is built.
-----
so lets pause and talk about that. AT NO TIME in this game, should you build units, that you do not have the gear to supply. having the artillery support units, with no artillery to provide it is worse then useless. so always look at your balance sheet, and adjust accordingly. logistics is everything. and dont forget when war starts, your stockpiles are going to deplete fast. so always have industrial capacity to keep your units supplied.
-----------
for even better line infantry, once you have a surplus of light tanks, start deploying 10wINF-(NG)(RT)(AR) [armored recon] because it gives you an armor bonus. making this unit awesome in defence, and not bad as offence.

these ten wide infantry units have high org, and stack like crazy. they excel in all terrain.

research tank destroyers. built them. research AA and AT. built that too. put a few factories on each.
built some special infantry for offence
10wINF-(NG)-AT ... 10wINF-(NG)-AA ... and 10wINF-(NG)-LTD
dont build too many of these, mix them into your lines, they rough up armor, shoot down planes and generally make advances painful for your enemies, and easier for you. as units they become 12w, but i denote them as 10w, because they are still standard infantry template.

mobile war ..... tank divisions etc
10wMOT-(NG)(RT) ... 5 bats motorized infantry, engineer support, artillery support
10wLiT-(NG)(RT) ... 5 bats light tanks, engineer & artillery support
these units are good for encirclements and breakthroughs, they move fast, use lots of fuel, but are great follow ups into salients to create encirlcements
10wPAN-(NG)(RT) ... 5 bats med tanks
good for the actual breakthroughs, i generally use them in groups of three or more.

20wLiT-(NG)(RT) ... 5 bats light tanks, 5 bats motorized infantry
20wPAN-(NG)(RT) ... 5 bats med tanks, 5 bats motorized infantry
awesome for breakouts, smashing cities, tackling forts etc. use them to create salients.
throw in a couple motorized artillery units onto these and you have divisions that are very tough to beat in offence or defence. as long as you can keep them supplied, they will do the job through mid game to go whereever you want to go.

build 12 of these 10wDES-(NG), 6 of these 10wDES-(NG)(RT) and 6 of these 10wDES-(NG)(RT)(AR) ... these are your 'desertrats"... ship them to africa and go seize the suez. mix them into two armies with some standard infantry and a few panzer units. one army breaks right towards suez, other left towards algeria. PUSH. toss in soem standard infantry to gaurd the ports the italians will leave wide open to United Buzzkills invasions. (so drop some defenders on tripoli, and the other two ports in north africa. when you break out from el-amien, go straight for alexandria, you'll be out of supplies and its a level 8 port. grab it, then push on to the suez.


special forces
20wMAR-(NG)(RT)(AR) ... marines. dont invade without them. 6 of these bad boys can secure any port in the game. if your playing germany, have your invasion of malta, crete and gilbratar already planned for the outbreak. get to them early enough and they wont even be defended. once you got algeria,fire six of these at gilbratar. you'll lock in the greek, french, yugo and british fleets. set up naval bombers, torp bombers to exterminate them. they are like cockroaches, you'll find them hiding in ports in turkey once you've secured the med. liquidate yugo and greece, and I ussually do hungary too ("Join us or die").

once youve locked down the med, prepare for cigar chomper. france should already be complete. do not do an alliance with Japan. do not let indochina join the axis (italy is bad enough.). you dont need any friends. bulgaria and romania maybe, spain late in game definately. secure the med. secure the Uk. turn north and deal with sweden, norway, and denmark.

no you are ready to launch on poland, and ussr. its 1940 and silver union got elected in merica ... no more USA to fight.

last thing. in all things, the new meta is CAS. always maintain air superiority and keep that CAS going. produce twice as many fighters as CAS, and have roughly 100CAS per 24 divisions minimum. more if possible. CAS is OP. it is the way the light and the truth.
10wINF + CAS = ftw

as always,
paradox sucks, dont buy the DLC, (and dragon, do not respond to my posts.)

Have a nice day.

[lakupupu]

Originally posted by meatshield:

ok I'll explain it to you. this game is stupid easy to win. when you load the game, before you do anything else, before you even start the timer ... scroll accross to the USA, click "diplomacy" scroll down to "boost popularity" and start boosting fascism in USA. It will take four years, but fascists win next election, and the USA will sit out the war.

you just defeated the biggest power in the game, and never fired a shot.

after that, build whatever templates you want, for germany they are all garbage, but you need manpower in the field. do spainish civil war to get some army xp.

whenever you send a general, give him a field marshall, so you can get even more traits faster.

Use field marshall model for your defence troops.

Heres the nomenclature for your division templates

(combat width)(type)-( (support companies) )- ( additional bats)
so 10wINF-(NG)LTD means 10 wide infantry, engineer support, one Light tank destroyer
10wINF-(NG)(RT) means 10w infantry, engineer and artillery support

as soon as you can make a garrison template - 10wCAV-(MP), swtich your garrison to that.

and your most basic infantry template ... 10wINF-(NG) ... this is your standard goto infantry template, from this template, all other templates will be built. these guys are perfect for gaurd duty, and filling holes.
you will want to upgrade them to 10wINF-(NG)(RT) as soon as you can. this will be your standard "line" infantry. but only as your artillery is built.
-----
so lets pause and talk about that. AT NO TIME in this game, should you build units, that you do not have the gear to supply. having the artillery support units, with no artillery to provide it is worse then useless. so always look at your balance sheet, and adjust accordingly. logistics is everything. and dont forget when war starts, your stockpiles are going to deplete fast. so always have industrial capacity to keep your units supplied.
-----------
for even better line infantry, once you have a surplus of light tanks, start deploying 10wINF-(NG)(RT)(AR) [armored recon] because it gives you an armor bonus. making this unit awesome in defence, and not bad as offence.

these ten wide infantry units have high org, and stack like crazy. they excel in all terrain.

research tank destroyers. built them. research AA and AT. built that too. put a few factories on each.
built some special infantry for offence
10wINF-(NG)-AT ... 10wINF-(NG)-AA ... and 10wINF-(NG)-LTD
dont build too many of these, mix them into your lines, they rough up armor, shoot down planes and generally make advances painful for your enemies, and easier for you. as units they become 12w, but i denote them as 10w, because they are still standard infantry template.

mobile war ..... tank divisions etc
10wMOT-(NG)(RT) ... 5 bats motorized infantry, engineer support, artillery support
10wLiT-(NG)(RT) ... 5 bats light tanks, engineer & artillery support
these units are good for encirclements and breakthroughs, they move fast, use lots of fuel, but are great follow ups into salients to create encirlcements
10wPAN-(NG)(RT) ... 5 bats med tanks
good for the actual breakthroughs, i generally use them in groups of three or more.

20wLiT-(NG)(RT) ... 5 bats light tanks, 5 bats motorized infantry
20wPAN-(NG)(RT) ... 5 bats med tanks, 5 bats motorized infantry
awesome for breakouts, smashing cities, tackling forts etc. use them to create salients.
throw in a couple motorized artillery units onto these and you have divisions that are very tough to beat in offence or defence. as long as you can keep them supplied, they will do the job through mid game to go whereever you want to go.

build 12 of these 10wDES-(NG), 6 of these 10wDES-(NG)(RT) and 6 of these 10wDES-(NG)(RT)(AR) ... these are your 'desertrats"... ship them to africa and go seize the suez. mix them into two armies with some standard infantry and a few panzer units. one army breaks right towards suez, other left towards algeria. PUSH. toss in soem standard infantry to gaurd the ports the italians will leave wide open to United Buzzkills invasions. (so drop some defenders on tripoli, and the other two ports in north africa. when you break out from el-amien, go straight for alexandria, you'll be out of supplies and its a level 8 port. grab it, then push on to the suez.


special forces
20wMAR-(NG)(RT)(AR) ... marines. dont invade without them. 6 of these bad boys can secure any port in the game. if your playing germany, have your invasion of malta, crete and gilbratar already planned for the outbreak. get to them early enough and they wont even be defended. once you got algeria,fire six of these at gilbratar. you'll lock in the greek, french, yugo and british fleets. set up naval bombers, torp bombers to exterminate them. they are like cockroaches, you'll find them hiding in ports in turkey once you've secured the med. liquidate yugo and greece, and I ussually do hungary too ("Join us or die").

once youve locked down the med, prepare for cigar chomper. france should already be complete. do not do an alliance with Japan. do not let indochina join the axis (italy is bad enough.). you dont need any friends. bulgaria and romania maybe, spain late in game definately. secure the med. secure the Uk. turn north and deal with sweden, norway, and denmark.

no you are ready to launch on poland, and ussr. its 1940 and silver union got elected in merica ... no more USA to fight.

last thing. in all things, the new meta is CAS. always maintain air superiority and keep that CAS going. produce twice as many fighters as CAS, and have roughly 100CAS per 24 divisions minimum. more if possible. CAS is OP. it is the way the light and the truth.
10wINF + CAS = ftw

as always,
paradox sucks, dont buy the DLC, (and dragon, do not respond to my posts.)

Have a nice day.

once again, you seem to have an irrational hatred of paradox but keep posting on paradox games' forums... some of these tips are counterproductive too

[TasteDasRainbow]

Yeah I'd recommend taking all of that with a grain of salt tbh, if you spend the time combing through it. And of course play the game at the pace you want, don't ruin the fun by making insane early invasions or ruining historical pathing unless you find that more enjoyable.

[SVaughan]

Originally posted by meatshield:

ok I'll explain it to you. this game is stupid easy to win. when you load the game, before you do anything else, before you even start the timer ... scroll accross to the USA, click "diplomacy" scroll down to "boost popularity" and start boosting fascism in USA. It will take four years, but fascists win next election, and the USA will sit out the war.

you just defeated the biggest power in the game, and never fired a shot.

after that, build whatever templates you want, for germany they are all garbage, but you need manpower in the field. do spainish civil war to get some army xp.

whenever you send a general, give him a field marshall, so you can get even more traits faster.

Use field marshall model for your defence troops.

Heres the nomenclature for your division templates

(combat width)(type)-( (support companies) )- ( additional bats)
so 10wINF-(NG)LTD means 10 wide infantry, engineer support, one Light tank destroyer
10wINF-(NG)(RT) means 10w infantry, engineer and artillery support

as soon as you can make a garrison template - 10wCAV-(MP), swtich your garrison to that.

and your most basic infantry template ... 10wINF-(NG) ... this is your standard goto infantry template, from this template, all other templates will be built. these guys are perfect for gaurd duty, and filling holes.
you will want to upgrade them to 10wINF-(NG)(RT) as soon as you can. this will be your standard "line" infantry. but only as your artillery is built.
-----
so lets pause and talk about that. AT NO TIME in this game, should you build units, that you do not have the gear to supply. having the artillery support units, with no artillery to provide it is worse then useless. so always look at your balance sheet, and adjust accordingly. logistics is everything. and dont forget when war starts, your stockpiles are going to deplete fast. so always have industrial capacity to keep your units supplied.
-----------
for even better line infantry, once you have a surplus of light tanks, start deploying 10wINF-(NG)(RT)(AR) [armored recon] because it gives you an armor bonus. making this unit awesome in defence, and not bad as offence.

these ten wide infantry units have high org, and stack like crazy. they excel in all terrain.

research tank destroyers. built them. research AA and AT. built that too. put a few factories on each.
built some special infantry for offence
10wINF-(NG)-AT ... 10wINF-(NG)-AA ... and 10wINF-(NG)-LTD
dont build too many of these, mix them into your lines, they rough up armor, shoot down planes and generally make advances painful for your enemies, and easier for you. as units they become 12w, but i denote them as 10w, because they are still standard infantry template.

mobile war ..... tank divisions etc
10wMOT-(NG)(RT) ... 5 bats motorized infantry, engineer support, artillery support
10wLiT-(NG)(RT) ... 5 bats light tanks, engineer & artillery support
these units are good for encirclements and breakthroughs, they move fast, use lots of fuel, but are great follow ups into salients to create encirlcements
10wPAN-(NG)(RT) ... 5 bats med tanks
good for the actual breakthroughs, i generally use them in groups of three or more.

20wLiT-(NG)(RT) ... 5 bats light tanks, 5 bats motorized infantry
20wPAN-(NG)(RT) ... 5 bats med tanks, 5 bats motorized infantry
awesome for breakouts, smashing cities, tackling forts etc. use them to create salients.
throw in a couple motorized artillery units onto these and you have divisions that are very tough to beat in offence or defence. as long as you can keep them supplied, they will do the job through mid game to go whereever you want to go.

build 12 of these 10wDES-(NG), 6 of these 10wDES-(NG)(RT) and 6 of these 10wDES-(NG)(RT)(AR) ... these are your 'desertrats"... ship them to africa and go seize the suez. mix them into two armies with some standard infantry and a few panzer units. one army breaks right towards suez, other left towards algeria. PUSH. toss in soem standard infantry to gaurd the ports the italians will leave wide open to United Buzzkills invasions. (so drop some defenders on tripoli, and the other two ports in north africa. when you break out from el-amien, go straight for alexandria, you'll be out of supplies and its a level 8 port. grab it, then push on to the suez.


special forces
20wMAR-(NG)(RT)(AR) ... marines. dont invade without them. 6 of these bad boys can secure any port in the game. if your playing germany, have your invasion of malta, crete and gilbratar already planned for the outbreak. get to them early enough and they wont even be defended. once you got algeria,fire six of these at gilbratar. you'll lock in the greek, french, yugo and british fleets. set up naval bombers, torp bombers to exterminate them. they are like cockroaches, you'll find them hiding in ports in turkey once you've secured the med. liquidate yugo and greece, and I ussually do hungary too ("Join us or die").

once youve locked down the med, prepare for cigar chomper. france should already be complete. do not do an alliance with Japan. do not let indochina join the axis (italy is bad enough.). you dont need any friends. bulgaria and romania maybe, spain late in game definately. secure the med. secure the Uk. turn north and deal with sweden, norway, and denmark.

no you are ready to launch on poland, and ussr. its 1940 and silver union got elected in merica ... no more USA to fight.

last thing. in all things, the new meta is CAS. always maintain air superiority and keep that CAS going. produce twice as many fighters as CAS, and have roughly 100CAS per 24 divisions minimum. more if possible. CAS is OP. it is the way the light and the truth.
10wINF + CAS = ftw

as always,
paradox sucks, dont buy the DLC, (and dragon, do not respond to my posts.)

Have a nice day.

"paradox sucks, dont buy the DLC, (and dragon, do not respond to my posts.)"
It's an open forum. He can do whatever he wants to do.

[shiggies713]

to be short, no in single player it doesn't matter much. Play around and see what works best.

[lukejkirkendall]

I find that just like a 6 infantries with support artillery works most of the time.

[meatshield]

Originally posted by lukejkirkendall:

I find that just like a 6 infantries with support artillery works most of the time.

5 infantries delivers 10wINF. which imo is optimal for a number of reasons. its very cheap, manpower and equipment wise. it has high organization. it stacks well in almost every terrain.

the vast bulk of the destruction of other armies comes through encirclements. having lots of cheap divisions allows you to exploit long offensive lines, (and when they shorten, you stack). often times its not how good your divisions are, its having alot of them that allow you to get around the flanks.

once your enemy is cut off from supplies, it doesnt really matter how wide they are, or how good the template, the attrition will destroy them, one and all.

thats my take at least.

and remember, pairacox sucks, this is not their forum, do not buy thier DLC scam, (and dragon do not respond to my posts, your stalking is creepy)

As always
Have a nice day.