安装 Steam
登录
|
语言
繁體中文（繁体中文）
日本語（日语）
한국어（韩语）
ไทย（泰语）
български（保加利亚语）
Čeština（捷克语）
Dansk（丹麦语）
Deutsch（德语）
English（英语）
Español-España（西班牙语 - 西班牙）
Español - Latinoamérica（西班牙语 - 拉丁美洲）
Ελληνικά（希腊语）
Français（法语）
Italiano（意大利语）
Bahasa Indonesia（印度尼西亚语）
Magyar（匈牙利语）
Nederlands（荷兰语）
Norsk（挪威语）
Polski（波兰语）
Português（葡萄牙语 - 葡萄牙）
Português-Brasil（葡萄牙语 - 巴西）
Română（罗马尼亚语）
Русский（俄语）
Suomi（芬兰语）
Svenska（瑞典语）
Türkçe（土耳其语）
Tiếng Việt（越南语）
Українська（乌克兰语）
报告翻译问题
此主题已被锁定 
讨论规则及指引
举报此帖
From what I understand the mindset of those leading Japan at the time was that the US, if defeated quickly enough, would back down rather then come all the way out to Asia after loosing their bases, Failing that then they would use the superbattleships to destroy any counter attack made by the US.
It feels like the Japanese plans had no room for failure and the second that things went wrong they went into a loosing streak. I believe it only took them loosing the battle of the Corral sea and around the Phillipeans and their entire fleet was basically destroyed, save a few ships, where as the US could produce hundreds a month.
First, they spooked all their scientists into fleeing the country, as many were Jewish, politically "inconvenient", and so on. They had ideas like what made up "German Science" and "Jewish Science"... nukes fell into the later category. Second, Germany drafted it's academics and shipped them to the East, where their talents could be be used. After that, their nuclear program was poorly funded, underdeveloped, riddled with academic and political interference, and had no real support from the Fuhrer himself.
They couldn't even build a reactor, let alone make bombs. There were additional problems as well, like securing the Uranium and related materials to actually make the devices as well.
What it would take for Germany to actually develop one would be a massive overhaul to it's political, economic, and army system. i.e not be Nazis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nuclear_weapons_program is 100% worth a read.
Lots of recognizable names and interesting stories, like Himmler's mom and Heisenberg's mom needing to sort out a "spat" of theirs. But I'll draw attention to the very end of the article:
Plus, there is the problem of actually delivering the bombs themselves. The B-29 program cost more than the Manhattan Project. There is a reason the Soviets copied it and made the TU-4. America had the range to drop nukes on Berlin, Germany had no capacity to hit anywhere in America.
This also represents a huge understatement of the scales of WW2. HOI4 does a really bad job at showing the difficulties that plagued armies and navies back then. Even if Japan managed a successful land campaign (which they couldn't against the Chinese and really couldn't against the Soviets), that still doesn't change the constraints they had. The USA's submarine campaigns alone, once their torpedos and related issues were fixed, dealt massive damage to Japan's fleet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gato-class_submarine#Notable_examples
Even if Germany did push to the Azerbaijan oil fields, there was no way for them to get it to Japan, even if they wanted to (which they didn't.) They would either need to boat it around the entire world, or go through the USSR's remnants/India, which they couldn't. Japan NEEDED the oil fields of the Pacific, which made their oil tankers extremely vulnerable targets for America's submarines. Which brings me to
The Japanese didn't think America would stay out of the war. A majority of their oil came through America (California) and the Dutch (Pacific Islands). The USA embargoed Japan after they invaded China, with the Dutch joining shortly after. Their goal wasn't go prevent America from going to war, it was to knock out their fleet to give them enough time to solidify their control of the Pacific, capture vital resources, then humiliate the US Navy in a decisive battle. From there, they thought a war-weary America would see it as an impossible task, so they could negotiate a peace deal from a position of strength, having secured China/the oil fields/rubber/etc.
Good answer on a similar question: https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/26280/where-did-japan-get-their-oil-during-wwii
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Events_leading_to_the_attack_on_Pearl_Harbor
The only winning move for Japan is for them to NOT attack America. There is no situation, outside of every one of the US's leadership, army, navy, and research groups to have simultaneous heart attacks that would have lead them to victory.
Still they wrote a letter at -39, fearing this weapon... i think you underestimate the german capacity. After all, they developed rockets and jet for the airplanes. For sure, as you know, all that is needed is a sub with a rocket and a warhead.
Read the whole letter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein%E2%80%93Szil%C3%A1rd_letter#/media/File:Einstein-Roosevelt-letter.png
They were afraid of a suicide-boat, going into port then destroying the port with a large explosion. Not exactly the same as Little Boy, a 64 kilogram package of Uranium that was dropped over Hiroshima to flatten the city. (Of which less that a kilo actually underwent fission.)
There is a difference between the capacity of the people making up Germany's academia/research/industry and the capacity of the Third Reich to make a nuclear bomb. They directly and intentionally went after nuclear science, as they considered it a "Jewish" science, causing many of its proponents to flee to America. (Including one Albert Einstein). The remaining people dedicated to working on the projects were prone to in-fighting and squabbling over the limited resources at their disposal.
The other problem is the actual delivery. It's pretty hard to make a nuclear explosion, even if you have kilos of highly enriched Uranium.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Boy#Design
This is why, even if they had everything needed to build a nuke, they couldn't use it against America. Little Boy, a 64 kilo payload, ended up weighing 4,400 kilogram as it required the rest of the bomb to get it to the location and set it off. That's why a SLBM isn't feasible for WW2 level tech. V2s could fit about 1,000 kilos for it's payload, far less than the 4,400 of Little Boy or 4670 kilos of Fat Man. Even factoring in the difference in design/size for sheer weight, getting it on target and setting it off would be impossible with the tech they had. Not to mention America's reprisals down the line.
As for their jets/rockets... to quote Chuck Yeagar, "The first time I ever saw a jet, I shot it down."
no british interventions on balkan + Nord-Süd-Plan = 100% win in the east
The supply problems came a lot from the difficulties changing to broad gauge (in particular the need to add more water towers and coaling stations) and the problems with partisans & cossacks - later also the lack of winterised locomotives.
The balkan operations, probably, didn't delay the attack; it was delayed because of the weather. They may have put a lot of extra strain on the divisions involved which may have been the edge that prevented taking Moscow. Whether the capture of Moscow would have led to a Soviet collapse is an open question.
To win the war with the west, Japan would have to go back to 1868, the Meiji restoration, and fix some major descisions in order to make the people of China and Korea think that they become Japanese or die. Proof of this being possible is that the Chinese thought they could trust Japan, because they were not westerners, in the Russo-Japanese war, but their actions in war and peace towards them over the next 40 years proved to the Chinese people that the Japanese were worse than the westerners. Meiji's descision to base the new country off Prussia was a mistake due to the extreme levels of nationalism it gave the Japanese people, empowering them to treat the Chinese people as inferiors at a massive scale, dooming japan to lack the manpower and resources of China. Had Japan absorbed the Han, Koreans, and Manchus, which was possibility had Japan played its cards right starting in 1868, Japan could be the dominate power still today, although it would lead the world in a sino-style way of being pretty hands off.
Had Japan done that it probably would be called Zhongguo today, so...
Japan committed horrible atrocities and unspeakable crimes against humanity in China before the Nazis performed theirs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731
Not only did Unit 731 have the express approval of the Japanese government, but Unit 731 wasn't the only Unit in operation.
But even setting aside the loathsome and appalling crimes of Unit 731, the IJA was ruthless in the slaughter of civilians.
https://openhistorysociety.org/members-articles/the-japanese-occupation-of-china-1937-45-events-effects-and-consequences-by-david-white/
https://www.history.com/topics/japan/nanjing-massacre
"Rudolph Rummel gave a figure of 3,949,000 people in China murdered directly by the Japanese army while giving a figure of 10,216,000 total dead in the war with the additional millions of deaths due to indirect causes like starvation, disease and disruption but not direct killing by Japan"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War
You are at least the second person that I have seen in this thread seemingly oblivious to or minimizing the true nature of the crimes that Japan committed - these acts CANNOT be forgotten.
Idiots.
I would say that Germany's coming defeat could be anticipated by the end of 1941, when it became clear the USSR would not surrender, and the Wehrmacht would be unable to take Moscow. The non-agression-treaty between Japan and the USSR freed up additional Russian troops to be moved to the frontline in 1942.
Germany was completely overstretched fighting a massive war of attrition in Russia, supporting their Italian allies in an increasingly difficult campaign in North Africa, engaging Allied shipping in the Atlantic and defending Germany against British night time bombing raids, while garrisoning the military conquests from La Rochelle to Kiev, from Athens to Narvik. Oh, and not to forget the systematic murder of Jews, and anyone else who did not fit into the very narrow picture the national socialists had of the new world they were trying to create.
Probably the biggest problem the German army had was Hitler, though not in the sense that he made poor decisions (to be clear, he choose poorly often enough. In terms of military defeats everyone knows Stalingrad - check Tunisgrad if you haven't heard the term).
Hitler ordered the Wehrmacht to systematically commit horrendous war crimes. No, it was not "just the SS", Hitler wanted every German soldier to do their utmost to purge the future "Lebensraum" of non-Aryans. He effectively ordered every German soldier to at the very least be an accessory to mass murder.
In the USSR, the soviets were not super popular. In fact, particularly in the Ukraine, they were mostly feared and disliked, if not even hated. With the German army invading and murdering millions, they were seen as the larger evil. Had the Germans invaded the USSR as liberators from the communists the war in the east could well have turned out completely different. However, any debate about Axis vs Allies hinges completely on Germany being run by the Nazis, so that point is moot.
The germans were over confident after the lucky victory in France. They were all but not prepared for a conflict against Russia. Equipped with scrapped tank divisions (most outdated models) and outnumbered min 1:3 in light tanks and min 1:2 in medium tanks (when you count these 500+ Panzer IV as equal to the T-34 - what isn’t true), the completely non-awareness of the the T34 and no match for the Russians heavy KV Tanks, they shouldn’t even try.
So it’s not a miracle that they failed, it’s a miracle that they get that far almost to moscov,
Maybe bc the Russians had absolutely no clue what to do with their tanks and how infantry, tanks and plans can work together.