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You need quite high compliance level and eat manpower and production loses for garrison to make annex worthy and give more than puppet give you for free right away.
Only advantage I see in annex is better control over the territory and building.
On the otherhand, by annexing land, you get land, you get the resources, though limited, but will increase with compliance, you can build factories for yourself.
In addition, if the state has lots of manpower, Stalingrad, Chinese cities, India, etc, you can set a occupation law of military governor or something and milk manpower from those territories, and this manpower goes directly to you for your use, you can do this even when the war is not over though.
It's all situational
If i want more territories for factories to fuel my production or need to save manpower, I outright annex.
but most other things, I puppet, In most cases I do both, I take some states and leave the rest for the puppet
- Puppett has 100% resources for its territory and depending on puppet type it trade you any resources in huge loads (like 120 per civ) ~ for free. While Annex depend on occupy law and compience and never reach 100% (and take years to get soemthign really decent)
= if you want resources, puppet.
- Annex is always negative in manpower as foreign manpower is never soemthing top consider and garrison loses will be much, much higher that it will never pay off. Puppett on other hand has 100% manpower pool and youc an always ask it for all forces (AI make mostly 7/2, 14/4 as default inf tempaltes whcih is quite decent. As player you need cover loses of those divisions in direct control but intiial training is on puppett.
= if you need manpower, puppett.
- Puppet give you aprt of factories right away (collab gov. whopping 75% of all industry, without DLC integral puppett 25% civs, 75% mils). To match what you gain from puppett you need literally years for build up complience + you need consider production loses on garrison and sabotages.
= if you need factories, pupett...
The advantage of annex is currently hard to find, it is only for something like have enough territory for buildings that are not provdided by puppet (like shipyards)
Resources yes, then again, there could be reasons why you our right annex its, say the indonesia, theres not land route to it, say you puppet it as Romania, when you are not at war you require no convoys, but once you are at war you require convoys to get those resources, you likely of course dont have a strong enough navy if are enough naval bases to protect your convoys on the trip, if convoys are gonna get constantly raided, it would be better not to puppet it so you do not need to use convoys, better for the next war
Manpower, no, do you not know how to properly gain manpower from annexing, I often play finland, by simply taking leningrad, moscow, and stalingrad, I nearly tripled my existing manpower by using the military governor. i've also tried taking all of the soviets and by simply changing the cities with big population to military governor, I could manage resistance, by the manpower I gain from them.
In addition their manpower doesnt become your manpower, you of course have to have division of your ssomewhere, say a Heavy tank division with veteran experience, are you gonna just delete that cuz of the puppet has manpower? You may remove you infantry divisions and use your puppets as a substitute, but you require your own manpower to fill in your units, in this case, it'd be the tank division.
In addition, what kind of garrison template are you using, I always have 3-6 cavalry no support and I'm done, I usually never worry about resistance ever again. Its not much manpower, what kind of template do you use to make it such a negative for you.
Factories, you seemingly misunderstood went I went for, I didn't mean you only wanted to just take factories, I also implied building on there when you build a factory in a puppet, a percentage will be given to the puppet, when you build in annexed areas, all of what you build will be yours, anything there beforehand will slowly go to you as compliance increases, but everything afterwards will all go to you meaning more factories for you in the long run if you start spamming
Non core manpower is like 0.1% so from 3 cities you named it is about 15k manpower +/- some modifiers, Not at all worthy of garrison loses.
Thats right but if you can not replenish loses of your elite units you do something wrong. The main deal for minors that chase manpower is have enough infantry armies to cover frontlines, whcih you get for free and it can be even up to hunderds of thousands manpower worth.
In theory it is also possible annex puppet via collaboration system, which give you all units that you can disband and get 100% manpwoer directly into pool. As it take long time it is not very applicable in real game scenario though (very good in mods like OWB though)
Your template is quite poor. To maximize efficiency you want at least 10 batallions (it can be increased up to full 25 for best effect) + MP. With LRA Armored cars, without light tanks. Cavalry only if you are poor but loses will be bigger. Check your garrison loses, for big cities it will be thousands for time befor eit went from 0% compliance and higher resistance values to some decent levels.
You still get proportion of new factories as well. Choice to get 10 factories now vs 2 and get another 10 in 2 years when game is decided/over is quite clear in my book.
You clearly didn't read the main point I said, i clearly state, it's situational. The point is to be open to any scenario, it quite a specific scenario yes, because I'm emphasizing that it depend on your need, it practically stupid to say, oh always go for puppet. There are some specific scenarios you need to understand so you can make a choice. Why should I go for 10/0 template over the 7/2.
well pure infantry is better for defense, thats the reason, that would I would go for a 10/0 over a 7/2, this applies here.
Please at least try to understand what i was going for in my first reply
Non-core manpower, against specific as it should be, I never said annexation is better, I'm providing why you'd chose it over puppeting, there may be cases where using the noncore manpower is much more viable in that moment. Say a two front war with germany, france got recapture but soviets defeated and you are low on manpower, puppetting will give you more troops overall yes, but do the puppets have enough time to train the divisions, send them over to your front, likely no, you need your manpower up now, and thus noncore manpower is more viable. Not everyone is a good player, not everyone is a bad player, i'm going to say options for both so they can decided whether they want to go annexation or puppet.
I dont really have problems with garrisions or their loses at all, its an awful waste for 10-15 cav battlion everywhere, i just pop 3-6 in every place besides the areas which make the most resisitance of 40%+, or big cities, there I might just put 10-15 battalions of cavalry, otherwise 3-6 is cheaper everywhere else. Its
And now your going too specific, which goes into what I say, is everyone gonna have the industry to make armored cars or light tanks, are they even gonna have enough for a stream of support equipment, its all situational,
Again, a choice of situation, maybe someone will wait to get factories via compliance they might have just spammed factories and let the compliance add more factories naturally over time, everyone doesnt play the same, its situational on what they want or need.
I shall again state, its situational, I never state annexation is better, i offered reason why you might chose annexation over puppeting
In the past it was different - puppet make sense mostly when one lacked manpower and needed AI build army for him but annex had on other hand clear advantage of extra factories - so dependiong on their needs the player had real choice.
But since resistance system rework it is not easy justify annexation as it is inferior in almost everything and you need very specific scenarios for it - and btw neither me said "always" go puppet - I just wrote in most cases puppett>annex which is statement I simply stand for.
Sorry but you wrote that annex big soviet cities tripled your manpwoer pool. How much garrison loses you had in those cities for first year since conquer? 3x mroe than those ever gave you?
And from this non-core manpwoer you start only at 2% with 0 compliance and 20% is cap at maximum compliance so idk what ypou write about "right now".
Saying Annex benefit manpower is just misleading.
Seems you do not understand how garrison division works than. Game use exact proportion of garrison division that is needed for get suppression value to handle the resistance. So in case of "fat" division with MP that has best suppresion value per manpower and production it might be just fraction of the division - like 0.16x of it. And in opposite for thin divisions multiple of them may be needed to counter same resistance level - eg 2.6x. It is most effiicient both production and manpower wise to use maximum width division as possible with MP (while visible breakpoint is around 20 width after which the further increase is not so big) . It is just game mechanic and math.
There will be ZERO difference between using 6 batallion cavalry and 15 batallion cavalry (or even 1 batallion would be still same). However once you use MP that add % bonus to whole division, the larger division will get biggger advantage as suppresion value gets better per batallion and at end of day per manpower and IC.
As I wrote, cavalry is for poor countries that can not afford production of cars/tanks for it but it need pay more manpower (and losses).
it is worthy not though that AC are dirty cheap and generally always worthy for any country.
Otherwise you should closely check and track your garrison loses. You may be surprised how much it can be over time and how fast it melt manpower. I recall one Germany game controlling large ♥♥♥♥♥ of world and garrison lsoes way over 300k per year.. it meant nothing for me but should not be udnerestimted. If small country with 150k pool lose 1k or 5k on garrison and needs twice as much IC for fulfil requirements at first place can make a real difference on strategic level.
If you say so... but vanilla HoI4 is +/- decided in 41 and game has strong snowball effect - factory today is worthy of 2 tomorrow.
And btw if you plan really long term (ye, I had games past 1960 too.. but I doubt most players is able live through late game lag...) I would highlight the scenario I wrote about before whcih make Puppetting VERY attractive - let it thrive and annex few years years later via independence system. It will have time utilize all resources to 100% + it will possibly make lot of factories and other stuff with focuses (generic focus tree often works quite well here] and you will get 100% of armies that you can adjust or disband and get all that manpower and equipment for yourself.
That is perfectly fine but than you still need valid and not so opaque scenarios where Annexation IS better for state that.
Cheers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_East_Asia_Co-Prosperity_Sphere#Projected_territorial_extent
Here are the Nazis' plans for world domination:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Order_(Nazism)
Ambitions of fascist Italy in Europe and "Great Italy" in Africa:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Empire#Fascism_and_the_Italian_Empire
For the Allies, it would mainly be about liberating and puppeting.