What is the worst support company?

[Exarch_Alpha]

For me it´s signal because of how often you have to do things youself... using only plans is asking to lose IMO

[FDX]

MP & FH.

[Mr_Faorry]

Military Police, they're just so useless.
Maintenance in at a close second since I've never noticed any difference with them tacked on.

[MeDaDaddy]

All have uses depending upon nation played, doctrine, focii etc.

[JDouglasBarson]

I agree about signal company unless you have units with low organization like around 40 or below, then it becomes useful to get those divisions to continue moving/attacking (like mobile infantry). You have mobile warfare doctrine, then its almost worthless.

Maint and Field hospital are really useful in regular infantry divisions in areas where extreme weather like desert or mountains or jungles. The land doctrine and special forces research can be use instead of these support companies.

[MeDaDaddy]

Originally posted by Mr_Faorry:

Military Police, they're just so useless.
Maintenance in at a close second since I've never noticed any difference with them tacked on.

They do make it easier for you to be "harsh" when occupying, though, and/or allow you to garrison less troops if manpower is an issue. More factories from occupations is good, right?
Of course you may not want to put them on your front line units unless they are going to be useful for you there.

[Bored Peon]

Signal company gives initiative bonuses. Not sure why people think it is bad to have.

Initiative affects who has to go first with the tactic. (it works in reverse of most initiative systems, the winner gets to go second and see the others attack plan.) So by having a high initiative that gives your commander a better chance to pull a counter tactic against the other commander. Which if a successful counter plan is chosen it inflicts bonus damage to the other side.

MPs are the worst because they are useless in this HOI version. In HOI 3 MPs were extremely useful against resistance and partisans because of their high suppression rating. They were also a brigade back then and not a support.

The resistance and partisan system in HOI 4 is too weak. One infantry unit can pretty much suppress a state, where previous versions you needed like 3-4 or MP units.

Field Hospitals are also good for keeping your manpower and xp. Countries with low manpower can save a lot of manpower with field hospitals. I use field hospitals in my Marine units so the xp rating stays higher, the same for any other "pushing units" I use.

[JDouglasBarson]

I use signal company on a attacking force sometimes to get slightly further behind a defense line. The reason why I see it as a bad support company, because I can simply overrun a defense line by moving divisions myself. No need to wait weeks or months to weaken the line. I guess it would be good for a long static front under AI control.

[Včelí medvídek]

Signal companies add to reinforce too. It raise chance that unit from reserve joins the fight in check that happens every hour.

If my memory is correct than units with singal companies have like 20% higher chance to join actual fight in 24 hour period over division without it.

So it is useful for armies with more divisions (and lower width) that rotate divisions during combat (or simply use more divisions in attack/defense)

But tbh, I never use it over other companies.

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by JDouglasBarson:

I use signal company on a attacking force sometimes to get slightly further behind a defense line. The reason why I see it as a bad support company, because I can simply overrun a defense line by moving divisions myself. No need to wait weeks or months to weaken the line. I guess it would be good for a long static front under AI control.

Okay, you are half right. You were only looking at the planning bonuses for a field marshal.

https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Combat_tactics

Reconnaissance advantage is determined by comparing the sum of recon values in all divisions in combat of each side. It translates to a flat bonus equal to 5 leader skill points. The side with higher total leader skill points has combat "initiative" to pick a counter. The side with initiative will pick their tactic after the other side, and if a tactic is available to counter the other side's tactic its weight will be multiplied by 1 + 0.35 * difference in skill points. Reconnaissance advantage doesn't help dodge counters, that is, if the other side's tactic can't be countered and a certain available tactic is countered by the other side, this certain tactic has the same chance of being picked.

In other words that initiative bonus factors in to choosing the counter tactic for that 24 hour period.

Originally posted by Včelí medvídek:

Signal companies add to reinforce too. It raise chance that unit from reserve joins the fight in check that happens every hour.

If my memory is correct than units with singal companies have like 20% higher chance to join actual fight in 24 hour period over division without it.

Here.
https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Support_Companies_technology

Signal (SIG): Signal companies provide the Initiative stat, which speeds up joining combat in progress from reserves, as well as planning speed. Used in the right place, these can be great.
One example is if a division in top of the reserves has a Signal Company, the division will be more likely to fill the hole in the front line faster.
Given that the base planning speed is 2% per day, a Signal Company I will save 4 days to reach the standard 50 % bonus (II:5 days; III: 7 days; IV: 8 days). Whether this bonus expedites preparation of invasions or paradrops is unconfirmed. In general these are most useful for troops in frequent front-line combat, or for reserves in critical positions where rapid reinforcement is needed.

So overall signal companies are pretty useful.

[JDouglasBarson]

You guys are missing the point about signal company. Signal company by itself is useless. You need other support companies, a decent general, research further into land doctrine to make it useful. After all that, you could just have spent the time researching other more useful equipment like tanks or planes. I am not saying it not useful but its limited. I think over a year ago before Waking the Tiger DLC you could use Signal company with a decent general. The changes made to land doctrines and experience to army change the bonus to signal company.

[rainedr]

Signal Companies are pretty much a must. The initiative boost and reinforce boost make your lines much stronger and your ability to withstand prolonged attacks/defence is also boosted.

Anyone who says otherwise is just silly.

[Operation Iraqi Freikorps]

Support rocket artillery. Tube artillery is already well in production and adding rocket artillery will simply drain more resources for a slightly better on offense and slightly weaker on defense artillery.
Could be signal companies, I use them even less often.
I love maintenance companies, the equipment capture is nice, as it can reduce the strain on your industry, and if your opponent has weapons iii and you dont, you can capture theirs while getting your own into production.

[-=Prepper_Jack=-]

Originally posted by 95thNY Co.ATeegardin21:

Support rocket artillery. Tube artillery is already well in production and adding rocket artillery will simply drain more resources for a slightly better on offense and slightly weaker on defense artillery.

You know - I've never actually attempted this - but can one use a rocket artillery support company and a normal artillery support company? Seems like it would be useful in a superior firepower build with integrated support line chosen.

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by -=Malovane=-:

Originally posted by 95thNY Co.ATeegardin21:

Support rocket artillery. Tube artillery is already well in production and adding rocket artillery will simply drain more resources for a slightly better on offense and slightly weaker on defense artillery.

You know - I've never actually attempted this - but can one use a rocket artillery support company and a normal artillery support company? Seems like it would be useful in a superior firepower build with integrated support line chosen.

Yep. It works great. I mean really, all that extra firepower for the cost of 1 factory. The rocket research is like 3 or 4 in the artillery so they are like 100 days or less. Then the rocket/jet research improves them in the engineering tree (which you do anyways for jets later.)

[andersrlarsen]

with 1939-researched, there is only 2 usefull support companies, eng and log (depending on condition). art and r-art are of course helpfull if you dont have any as line batalions.

with 1942-researched, all support companies are usefull depending on condition, EXCEPT for mp. mp is never worth it (3-4 cav batalions are enough as supression unit. add eng and art support, and they are good as garrison unit as well).
- wheter or not to use hospitals, depends on what country you play (can also be used in 40-width divisions, but never as a major with 20 width divisions).
- maintance should only be considered in armor divisions (and maybe in mot + sp-art/sp-r.art).
- signal company should always be in 40-width divisions after 1942 researched.
- log is a must-have in areas with low infrastructure, and should also be in 40-width divisions.
- rec and eng should always be support company after 1942 (eng should also be in divisions with 1939 researched)