Install Steam
login
|
language
简体中文 (Simplified Chinese)
繁體中文 (Traditional Chinese)
日本語 (Japanese)
한국어 (Korean)
ไทย (Thai)
Български (Bulgarian)
Čeština (Czech)
Dansk (Danish)
Deutsch (German)
Español - España (Spanish - Spain)
Español - Latinoamérica (Spanish - Latin America)
Ελληνικά (Greek)
Français (French)
Italiano (Italian)
Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian)
Magyar (Hungarian)
Nederlands (Dutch)
Norsk (Norwegian)
Polski (Polish)
Português (Portuguese - Portugal)
Português - Brasil (Portuguese - Brazil)
Română (Romanian)
Русский (Russian)
Suomi (Finnish)
Svenska (Swedish)
Türkçe (Turkish)
Tiếng Việt (Vietnamese)
Українська (Ukrainian)
Report a translation problem
"Socialism" and "Social Democrat" are not the same thing muh dude.
Example; Venezuela is a socialist nation.
Example 2; Bernie Sanders claims to be a socialist, but is in fact a social democrat.
It's a shame modern society has failed so much as to not better educate its people on such matters.
“Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it.”
-George Orwell
“Socialism means a classless society, or it means nothing at all. And it was here that those few months in the militia were valuable to me. For the Spanish militias, while they lasted, were a sort of microcosm of a classless society. In that community where no one was on the make, where there was a shortage of everything but no privilege and no bootlicking, one got, perhaps, a crude forecast of what the opening stages of socialism might be like. And, after all, instead of disillusioning me it deeply attracted me. The effect was to make my desire to see socialism established much more actual than it had been before.”
-George Orwell, ‘Homage to Catalonia’
“For perhaps ten years past I have had some grasp of the real nature of capitalist society. I have seen British imperialism at work in Burma, and I have seen something of the effects of poverty and unemployment in Britain…. One has got to be actively a Socialist, not merely sympathetic to Socialism, or one plays into the hands of our always active enemies.”
– George Orwell, “Why I Joined the Independent Labour Party”
George Orwell was unequivocally a socialist, muh dude. The problem is that HoI IV by default lacks the inherent intricacies necessary to represent different far-left and far-right ideologies. For instance, falangism as was the case in Poland is fundamentally different from fascism as expressed by Nazism or the Italian Fascist Party.
The fact that there is a communist tree in the UK path the rebukes the Moscow style of communism in favor of a more radical socialist approach is indicative that the ideologies are more, at this point, meant to be broadstrokes.
George Orwell was an avowed socialist and the Independent Labourt Party operated on a platform of "Socialism in our time".
That said, to say all socialism leads to communism is a fallacy.
I'll repeat myself since I guess you missed it;
Being a "socialist" is not the same thing a being a "social democrat."
Orwell was not a "socialist," he was a "social dmeocrat..." muh dude. He was an avowed "social democrat" not a "socialist."
The two are not one and the same. it is a fallacy to say that they are or treat them as such.
Someone clearly as learned as yourself should know better.
So the difference is socialism is double plus ungood but social democrats are double plus good?
Depends on where you stand politically. To me it's all power play garbage(or simply put, I'm not a fan of politics) but I prefer accurate representation in my historical simulators. I'll link this as it explains it in the most simplest terms I can find; https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-socialism-and-social-democracy
A brilliant mind heard by many yet nobody truly listened until it was too late. :(
It still blows my mind though that people think being a social democrat is the same as being a socialist. I've seen too many people on the far left(you know the ones, they love authority) that think Orwell was a socialist and was preaching in favor of what they stand for. We well and truly ARE screwed.
1984 is one of the worst " Dystopian Future " books ever, entirely unimaginative and Orwell really shows how much of an old creep he was.
Source? I don't recall reading anywhere that his was an anarchist.
I do recall reading that he fought for various anarchist and socialist groups against the fascists in the Spanish civil war. But as I understand it that was more of an "enemy of my enemy" type deal and that at the time he viewed Fascism as the greater evil.
I disagree with what you say but I'll defend your right to say it. :p
Being a "democratic socialist" is still being a socialist. A communist is an authoritarian socialist government type.
Socialism is an economic policy, democracy is the method in which a government is formed and conducted.
You can, then, be a socialist and believe in democratic values.
And using the definition of a Social Democrat today to apply to George Orwell who considered himself a democratic socialist is not entirely astute or accurate. For instance, as previously mentioned in my post but which you chose to completely ignore, George Orwell was an avowed member of the very much SOCIALIST Independent Labour Party.
"In my opinion, nothing has contributed so much to the corruption of the original idea of socialism as the belief that Russia is a socialist country and that every act of its rulers must be excused, if not imitated. And so for the last ten years, I have been convinced that the destruction of the Soviet myth was essential if we wanted a revival of the socialist movement."
Preface to the Ukrainian edition of Animal Farm, as published in The Collected Essays, Journalism, and Letters of George Orwell: As I please, 1943-1945 (1968)
"The other crucial dimension to Orwell's socialism was his recognition that the Soviet Union was not socialist. Unlike many on the left, instead of abandoning socialism once he discovered the full horror of Stalinist rule in the Soviet Union, Orwell abandoned the Soviet Union and instead remained a socialist — indeed he became more committed to the socialist cause than ever."
John Newsinger, in "Orwell and the Spanish Revolution" in International Socialism Journal, No. 62 (Spring 1994)
You say that I "should know better", but you seem to know very little about the subject at hand because you seem to have this misconception that Orwell referring to himself as a "democratic socialist" somehow negates the fact that he was a socialist???
As for George Orwell was not an avowed socialist, I direct you again to his own words:
"One has got to be actively a Socialist, not merely sympathetic to Socialism, or one plays into the hands of our always active enemies.”
– George Orwell, “Why I Joined the Independent Labour Party”
Your source is quora which begins with the erroneous statement of "Socialism, or communism" and is therefore being discarded entirely out of hand. Likewise, Social democracy is a different concept from Democratic Socialism.
See: "Social Democracy, Not to be confused with democratic socialism."
George Orwell referred to himself as a "Democratic Socialist"
Democratic Socialism and a Social Democrat are not the same thing.
Since you like using Quora as a reference:
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-a-Democratic-Socialist-and-a-Social-Democrat
Honestly, I find your pretentious know-it-all-ism to be rather grating especially considering as you are fundamentally wrong and misinformed. George Orwell was, by his own admission, a "democratic socialist". The problem you are having is that you are conflating the concept of "Social Democrats" with "Democratic Socialist" even though they are two different and distinct ideologies.
You cannot say anything to the contrary regarding George Orwell being a socialist and a democratic socialist, the man described himself as such things and was an active member of the Independent Labour Party which was a Socialist party and when asked why he joined the ILP and all but said "Either you're a Socialist all the way or you're helping the enemy".
You cannot take the mans own words and disregard them to fit the narrative you are trying to spin.
Back to the original point though, i think it's a pretty big slap in the face to attribute a dead author who causes such debate about his political leanings to be represented in the game as being communist.
I also think it breaks the whole idea of 'Political Advisors'. Every other country in the game gets politicians who had actual or believeable roles in the war, but as the DLC's come out, famous people of the time are all of a sudden represented as politicians. Imagine George Orwell on a war cabinet, or whispering in the PM's ear. I'm sure there are far more relevant and believeable people who could have filled this role.
Maybe he should be changed to "Volunteer Fighter" which allows the UK to send volunteer forces (can be taken before the spanish civil war, allowing them to send Rep. Spain volunteers)