Germany too strong

[ProgramTheta]

I usually play as Germany, and they are WAY too powerful. In the hands of a competent player, I mean. AI Germany is suicidal and will kill itself very quickly. Germany gets infinite political power, insane bonuses to their units through the political power advisors guys, the most factories of anyone in the world by the time the war starts, etc. Their only weaknesses is that their manpower is average(hardly even a weakness, it's still way better than Britain, France, etc.) and they don't start with a good supply of fuel or a navy.

You can't try to drain them of manpower or fuel because their units are so good from bonuses bought with political power they just smash everything instantly without losses. I even tried as the USSR setting up lvl 4 forts along the Dnieper and Daugava rivers. It held for a few months but the Germans took minimal casualties because they just pushed right across the river with medium tanks. I had AT, but I can't outproduce the Germans because again, most factories in the world by 39. The Axis also is ridiculous because you can make Spain join your faction with 1 focus that uses magic and removes the recovering from civil war spirit. German wonder weapons make Spain recover from the civil war in 70 days mein fuhrer. After the recent update, the communists cant win the civil war either.

IRL, Spain would've been a German liability like Italy. It was a destroyed nation with no interest in a war, and no capability to fight one.

I have nearly 1500 hours in this game, most of which is played as Germany, and i realized they are really unstoppable. If you get every single country on the planet at war with them, they are just contained. They can hold the line. I've done it multiple times. Unfortunately, America now gets War Plan Black as a decision now, so the AI never takes it. Because of 1.6, America will now never enter the war.

[GoldenTalon]

Balance is totally broken in MtG. I played a German game on elite and it was ridiculous how poor the AI is.

[nobletea]

Originally posted by TwelveCobi:

You can't try to drain them of manpower or fuel because their units are so good from bonuses bought with political power they just smash everything instantly without losses. I even tried as the USSR setting up lvl 4 forts along the Dnieper and Daugava rivers. It held for a few months but the Germans took minimal casualties because they just pushed right across the river with medium tanks. I had AT, but I can't outproduce the Germans because again, most factories in the world by 39. The Axis also is ridiculous because you can make Spain join your faction with 1 focus that uses magic and removes the recovering from civil war spirit. German wonder weapons make Spain recover from the civil war in 70 days mein fuhrer. After the recent update, the communists cant win the civil war either.

IRL, Spain would've been a German liability like Italy. It was a destroyed nation with no interest in a war, and no capability to fight one.

I have nearly 1500 hours in this game, most of which is played as Germany, and i realized they are really unstoppable. If you get every single country on the planet at war with them, they are just contained. They can hold the line. I've done it multiple times. Unfortunately, America now gets War Plan Black as a decision now, so the AI never takes it. Because of 1.6, America will now never enter the war.

you mustve been lucky cause in my polish game the german casualties went up fast i updated my template with more anti tank and they ripped through the germans i even brought up some light tank divisions anyway in the war germany has over 8 million casualties and they ran out of manpower and their units are half strengh its just luck update your doctrine and division template update your equipment and put in engineers dont forget the the purge debuff maybe thats why you lost german had twice the manpower and divisions as me and double the land im still winning (the war hasnt been won yet im in the middle of the game with the soviets on the other side)

[Exarch_Alpha]

. and ,

How do they work?

[Felix]

I played a game with Communist France and SU boosted (2x) and Germany without allying Italy. They somehow managed to win the war without any ally and against boosted enemies. My plan was to have the endgame soviet Eurasia as Royalist Great Britain but now the axis controls everything :D

[LaconicDev]

You clearly haven't played a multiplayer with competent opponents ^^
That's a general HOI4 problem. The AI is no match for a reasonably seasoned player. Especially not if you take one of the strong nations, of which Germany is one. But the thing out of balance is the player vs. the AI. The nations itself are actually quite balanced.

[Torrens]

German AI seems to be more competent when it fights against USSR I don't know why. I had a game as USSR where it took me untill 1948 to beat Germany with over 10 million casualties. Germany lost 17 million on eastern front and all Axis nations joined the frontline against me, and the war of attrition grew to astronomical proportions, I've never experienced before in the game. I was positively suprised. Every axis nation was fighting against me on the frontline. Even Italy lost 2 million against me. Axis conquered Finland, Leningrad, Minsk, Kiev and even Stalingrad momentarily. It was the hardest USSR game I've ever had against AI.

It seems like USSR never wins against Germany when both are AI in my experience after MtG

[Aestholus]

Some achievements have become really difficult, since Germany became such a powerhouse...
Sometimes the German manpower doesn't feel like depleting at all and at the same time they produce more and more units o_O.

[ProgramTheta]

Originally posted by Aestholus:

Some achievements have become really difficult, since Germany became such a powerhouse...
Sometimes the German manpower doesn't feel like depleting at all and at the same time they produce more and more units o_O.

Germany actually doesnt have a whole lot of manpower to waste, but they get so many unit bonuses that none of their troops ever actually die in battle so they never run out.

[Jam292]

Spain should actually conduct international trade for Germany to a slight degree. Spain did it, the allies knew it but felt claiming that they were violating neutrality was too risky.

[Jan]

Germany really isn't all too OP. Yes it's strong because it has to fight 4 major powers on its own but its not OP. Just look how often they loose in multiplayer. There's just one secret to it: Don't give them a break! Don't surrender land to them! And of course taskforces. Let me explain:
1.Most time germany wins because the Allies or Comintern gives them a break, hiding behind their forts or rivers completely idle while the Germans slaughter the other team. Don't let the German player rest. Keep him constantly busy on all front. Don't let him focus all his strong units on one front! Constantly harrass him.
2.Don't surrender land to them. That might sound paradox but it's a large reason why Germany is often so strong. Many times the Allies just abandon smaller nations like the nordic nations, the baltic nations, the benelux and the balkan to the Germans because "they are not worth the manpower". But they are, the resources and factories that Germany gets from their lands are massive and by letting them go down without much fight you allow the germans to focus even more divisions on Russia or France. Hold the minors as long as possible! Also fighting destroys Infrastructur and Buildings, so holding minors greatly reduces Germanys gain from them.
Now how do you do that? Task forces and planes. Build strong units to break through the frontlines and encircle the Germans to keep them busy, harrass them with naval invasions and constantly have bombers over all German territory that doesn't have planes in them. Not only does that force germany to waste its fighters by protecting brandenburg for example but if you combine the allied bomber fleets, they actually become strong enough to force the German player to actively move a large air fleet against them to protect his land instead of leaving it to garrison stacks, meaning they constantly have to check the airmap.

If you already knew all of that then sorry for wasting your time, if not then please trust me and try it. You'll easily overwhelm the Germans

[GoldenTalon]

The issue is the terrible AI for the other countries that do stupid things like suiciding their troops, not garrisoning ports or doing invasions with no port for supplies. If the AI were half as good as HOI3 it would work fine.

[Jan]

Originally posted by GoldenTalon:

The issue is the terrible AI for the other countries that do stupid things like suiciding their troops, not garrisoning ports or doing invasions with no port for supplies. If the AI were half as good as HOI3 it would work fine.

You mean the AI that couldn't even move its troops?
I'm serious, play germany, annex sweden and norway and pull all your troops out before declaring war on finland. It will litteraly take them up to 2 years to reach Oslo

[runequester]

Strategy games always provide insane boosts for Germany, in order for the game to be playable.

An actual human player would quit in protest if the average game went like it did historically or if they had to put up with the constraints and flaws of the real Nazi state.

[ChaosKhan]

Originally posted by Jan:

Germany really isn't all too OP. Yes it's strong because it has to fight 4 major powers on its own but its not OP. Just look how often they loose in multiplayer. There's just one secret to it: Don't give them a break! Don't surrender land to them! And of course taskforces. Let me explain:
1.Most time germany wins because the Allies or Comintern gives them a break, hiding behind their forts or rivers completely idle while the Germans slaughter the other team. Don't let the German player rest. Keep him constantly busy on all front. Don't let him focus all his strong units on one front! Constantly harrass him.
2.Don't surrender land to them. That might sound paradox but it's a large reason why Germany is often so strong. Many times the Allies just abandon smaller nations like the nordic nations, the baltic nations, the benelux and the balkan to the Germans because "they are not worth the manpower". But they are, the resources and factories that Germany gets from their lands are massive and by letting them go down without much fight you allow the germans to focus even more divisions on Russia or France. Hold the minors as long as possible! Also fighting destroys Infrastructur and Buildings, so holding minors greatly reduces Germanys gain from them.
Now how do you do that? Task forces and planes. Build strong units to break through the frontlines and encircle the Germans to keep them busy, harrass them with naval invasions and constantly have bombers over all German territory that doesn't have planes in them. Not only does that force germany to waste its fighters by protecting brandenburg for example but if you combine the allied bomber fleets, they actually become strong enough to force the German player to actively move a large air fleet against them to protect his land instead of leaving it to garrison stacks, meaning they constantly have to check the airmap.

If you already knew all of that then sorry for wasting your time, if not then please trust me and try it. You'll easily overwhelm the Germans

Great, you just described that the Allies have to gang up on ONE country just to take it down and have to play very smart and strategic to do so, while Germany can just bumrush everything. It's the epitome of broken/op.

I've just played a camp with the SU. I had absolutely no chance to win on my own (was no problem at all before MtG if you played smart, now you need to use every single trick up your sleeve to just force Germany into a stalemate, where you lose tons of manpower and equipment) and had to wait, till the scripted american AI invaded in 1944 just to be able to push them back. Funny enough, I didn't even get one rifle via lend & lease during the whole war... so much for "historical"... Historically, the SU started to push back long before the Americans landed, so it's pretty much BS that you require american divisions just to start the counterattack.

[Jan]

@ChaosKhan

Open up a history book. Germany is supposed to be strong. If france or poland alone could easily take Germany down then the game would be a little pointless, wouldn't it be?
That's like saying Belgium is OP cause you can't just overrun it while playing Luxenburg.

Also the US will always outproduce and easily overrun Germany if the Soviets manage to survive until 1943-1944

Also I mean it's not that hard to play the Soviets, with some preparation, good tank divisions and smart encirclements, you can easily defeat the Germans on your own. Especially after mtg where you can pretty much train your airforce constantly cause you have nearly unlimited fuel as the soviets, meaning you'll actually have a stronger airforce than Germany in 1940 if you play it smart