Petition to Remove George Orwell as a "Socialist Novelist"

[AncientFlames]

George Orwell was a socialist as a young man and grew out of it in life as he saw the devastation it caused and elitist virtue signaling it paraded as justice for the common worker. If anyone at paradox read his books they would know he was quite the opposite of a socialist writer. He provided commentary of the dangers of communism and socialist regimes, not support.

[Monki]

OwO my historical boner Is dying, plz remove this boi

[rainedr]

!@#$ Animal Farm!

[Grey]

signed

[The Dank Lord [GER]]

k

[anastasia]

1) That is quite inaccurate about his novels.
He was an anti-Stalinist, but a democratic socialist. He wrote 1984 and Animal Farm not to warn to discredit socialism, but to discredit authoritarianism and draw parallels to Stalin's rise to power.
2) He was always a socialist.
In fact, he said in a media interview in the summer of 1946, quote: "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it. It seems to me nonsense, in a period like our own, to think that one can avoid writing of such subjects."
There is literally nothing to suggest that he was against socialism. Just authoritarian communism.

[Grey]

People seem to miss the point that, regardless of his political leanings, he shouldn't be increasing communism.

There is a distinct difference between socialism and communism.

[Iron Man]

didnt he fight for the communists in spain?

[Visi]

Originally posted by Laffey Drinks:

There is a distinct difference between socialism and communism.

In theory, yes, a slight one. In practice, not really. It always ends the same way, and one is just as unethical and immoral as the other.

[AncientFlames]

Originally posted by Pirate Captain Dom:

1) That is quite inaccurate about his novels.
He was an anti-Stalinist, but a democratic socialist. He wrote 1984 and Animal Farm not to warn to discredit socialism, but to discredit authoritarianism and draw parallels to Stalin's rise to power.
2) He was always a socialist.
In fact, he said in a media interview in the summer of 1946, quote: "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it. It seems to me nonsense, in a period like our own, to think that one can avoid writing of such subjects."
There is literally nothing to suggest that he was against socialism. Just authoritarian communism.

If he was against communism why does he boost the UK's communism?

Being for democratic socialist and being for communism are very different things.

[Grey]

Originally posted by Visi:

Originally posted by Laffey Drinks:

There is a distinct difference between socialism and communism.

In theory, yes, a slight one. In practice, not really. It always ends the same way, and one is just as unethical and immoral as the other.

You're not wrong.

[badboje]

I mean it's kind of historically accurate, he was a socialist at this point in history I believe

[runequester]

Originally posted by AncientFlames:

George Orwell was a socialist as a young man and grew out of it in life as he saw the devastation it caused and elitist virtue signaling it paraded as justice for the common worker. If anyone at paradox read his books they would know he was quite the opposite of a socialist writer. He provided commentary of the dangers of communism and socialist regimes, not support.

A: Orwell was a socialist until the day he died. He opposed Stalin exactly because he was a socialist.
Animal Farm was about how the elites betrayed the revolution.

B: Only bed wetters say "virtue signaling".

F Minus. Please go back to school.

[Zsrai]

Originally posted by Iron Man:

didnt he fight for the communists in spain?

No, because that whole side of the civil war wasn't just communists. It was the republicans, the communists, the anarchists, other socialist groups, etc.

Originally posted by Laffey Drinks:

People seem to miss the point that, regardless of his political leanings, he shouldn't be increasing communism.

There is a distinct difference between socialism and communism.

Not in vanilla HoI4 there isn't.

Originally posted by AncientFlames:

Originally posted by Pirate Captain Dom:

1) That is quite inaccurate about his novels.
He was an anti-Stalinist, but a democratic socialist. He wrote 1984 and Animal Farm not to warn to discredit socialism, but to discredit authoritarianism and draw parallels to Stalin's rise to power.
2) He was always a socialist.
In fact, he said in a media interview in the summer of 1946, quote: "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it. It seems to me nonsense, in a period like our own, to think that one can avoid writing of such subjects."
There is literally nothing to suggest that he was against socialism. Just authoritarian communism.

If he was against communism why does he boost the UK's communism?

Being for democratic socialist and being for communism are very different things.

See above. There are only really 3 ideological umbrellas, and the "red" one is everything on the far left. That means communism and socialism are under the same umbrella in HoI4.

Originally posted by Visi:

Originally posted by Laffey Drinks:

There is a distinct difference between socialism and communism.

In theory, yes, a slight one. In practice, not really. It always ends the same way, and one is just as unethical and immoral as the other.

Not even close to accurate.

[Gorgo Primus]

You're utterly clueless.

"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it." - George Orwell in Why I Write, page 394

He didn't 'grow out of socialism' later in life. That was written during the same period of time that the game takes place in. Man fought with the Pseudo-Trotskyist POUM in Spain for crying out loud! He was just an anti-Stalinist, and for that anti-socialists have been worshipping his funhouse mirror reflection for years... I feel bad for the man.

[-=Prepper_Jack=-]

Orwell was an advocate for Democratic Socialism, which is one branch of the socialist tree. Another branch, which is a totalitarian ideology, is Marxist Communism. In his books he warned of how Democratic Socialism trends towards Marxism, and that this is something that must be prevented at all costs. If Orwell could see Britain, with its video cameras on every street corner, and numerous other issues, I imagine he'd say "told you so".

Not all socialists are totalitarians, though it does naturally trend towards that end. Once you embrace the idea that the individual is subservient to the collective, and reject personal property and sovereignty, you can justify just about anything.