How is manpower calculated exactly?

[ZeratulR]

I've never looked too closely into the information you can get from the manpower screen (the one you see when you point at the free manpower number at the top of the screen). Now I finally did it and... well, I have questions. The changes made to the resistance/occupation system have a part in those questions as well. So here is my manpower situation:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2019772089
First of all, it seems obvious (at least to me) that the free manpower + used manpower should be equal to my total manpower.

This is clearly not the case here: 1,23m+2,36m+0,062m+0,052m+0,036m=3,74m (used manpower as shown on this screen) and my "total manpower" is 4,85m. That means that I apparently miss 1,1 million people!

That said, "total manpower" seems to be incorrect based on the eligible core and non-core population as well. 35,99m*11,5%+77,14m*0,229%=4,31m which is half a million short of my listed "total manpower" but again significantly more than the manpower I calculated above.

Of course, it looks like those numbers are in turn incorrect because as you can see on the left of the screenshot, based on a country by country information about available manpower from the resistance menu, I'm supposed to receive 429k men from Brazil alone and 77,14m*0,229%=177,6k. At any rate, I've no idea where this 0,229% is coming from. Based on the info on the resistance screen, I have something like a 0,8-0,9% recruitable population in the non-core territories average.

Could somebody please help me make any sense of the manpower calculation? So far it looks like the manpower screen consists of random numbers and not a single arithmetic operation is working in it. What am I missing?

PS. I don't have a single colonial division since I'm not allowed to have puppets as an anarchist, I think.

[BetterBite]

Uhh problem 1 I dont believe the game actually takes away from State Population when your soldiers die so that 1.1 million you are missing are 1.1 dead.

That 0.229% is like a fraction of your Conscription law used to conscript from non core states and I believe the states recruitable factor further lowers how many people you can recruit from non core states so I dont believe the number is actually going to be exact so there is going to be a further discrepnancy

So this is probably why theres a 1.1 mil discrepnancy.

Alsom wdym by not not having a single colonial divison. How does that link to puppets?

[ZeratulR]

Originally posted by :rollingnordvpn::

Uhh problem 1 I dont believe the game actually takes away from State Population when your soldiers die so that 1.1 million you are missing are 1.1 dead.

I don't think it adds up very well, since I only have 432k losses in the current war and I only finished 1 small war before that with no more then 50k losses and probably 100-100k from garrison losses. Unless that number includes ALL the Spanish people who died in the Civil War?

That 0.229% is like a fraction of your Conscription law used to conscript from non core states and I believe the states recruitable factor further lowers how many people you can recruit from non core states so I dont believe the number is actually going to be exact so there is going to be a further discrepnancy

Well ok, 11,5%*2%=0,23%. That number is completely irrelevant to anything in La Resistance since my actual percentage in non-core land is so much bigger but at least I understand where it comes from.

Alsom wdym by not not having a single colonial divison. How does that link to puppets?

Colonial divisions. As in divisions you create using manpower of your subjects (and recently manpower of exiled governments). I think it usually affects the used manpower number in a weird way, it is substracted from the "army: in the field" number for some reason.

[Tomatemon]

Count the manpower from other countries?

Originally posted by ZeratulR:

I've never looked too closely into the information you can get from the manpower screen (the one you see when you point at the free manpower number at the top of the screen). Now I finally did it and... well, I have questions. The changes made to the resistance/occupation system have a part in those questions as well. So here is my manpower situation:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2019772089
First of all, it seems obvious (at least to me) that the free manpower + used manpower should be equal to my total manpower.

This is clearly not the case here: 1,23m+2,36m+0,062m+0,052m+0,036m=3,74m (used manpower as shown on this screen) and my "total manpower" is 4,85m. That means that I apparently miss 1,1 million people!

That said, "total manpower" seems to be incorrect based on the eligible core and non-core population as well. 35,99m*11,5%+77,14m*0,229%=4,31m which is half a million short of my listed "total manpower" but again significantly more than the manpower I calculated above.

Of course, it looks like those numbers are in turn incorrect because as you can see on the left of the screenshot, based on a country by country information about available manpower from the resistance menu, I'm supposed to receive 429k men from Brazil alone and 77,14m*0,229%=177,6k. At any rate, I've no idea where this 0,229% is coming from. Based on the info on the resistance screen, I have something like a 0,8-0,9% recruitable population in the non-core territories average.

Could somebody please help me make any sense of the manpower calculation? So far it looks like the manpower screen consists of random numbers and not a single arithmetic operation is working on it. What am I missing?

PS. I don't have a single colonial division since I'm not allowed to have puppets as an anarchist, I think.

[Катя Мяу <3]

Originally posted by ZeratulR:

Originally posted by :rollingnordvpn::

Uhh problem 1 I dont believe the game actually takes away from State Population when your soldiers die so that 1.1 million you are missing are 1.1 dead.

I don't think it adds up very well, since I only have 432k losses in the current war and I only finished 1 small war before that with no more then 50k losses and probably 100-100k from garrison losses. Unless that number includes ALL the Spanish people who died in the Civil War?

That 0.229% is like a fraction of your Conscription law used to conscript from non core states and I believe the states recruitable factor further lowers how many people you can recruit from non core states so I dont believe the number is actually going to be exact so there is going to be a further discrepnancy

Well ok, 11,5%*2%=0,23%. That number is completely irrelevant to anything in La Resistance since my actual percentage in non-core land is so much bigger but at least I understand where it comes from.

Alsom wdym by not not having a single colonial divison. How does that link to puppets?

Colonial divisions. As in divisions you create using manpower of your subjects (and recently manpower of exiled governments). I think it usually affects the used manpower number in a weird way, it is substracted from the "army: in the field" number for some reason.

The number does indeed include all the Spanish people that died during the war as well. If you look at the civilian population of states that you conquered, you will see that the 2 numbers are not the same. That's because the previous countries you conquered them from, took their own soldiers from these states. If those soldiers died or surrendered before the peace conference, you are now left with less manpower. The thing however is that the conscription laws take the numbers from the higher numbers (the number you would have if no one died).

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by :rollingnordvpn::

Uhh problem 1 I dont believe the game actually takes away from State Population when your soldiers die so that 1.1 million you are missing are 1.1 dead.

They also would be missing from attrition as well. Attrition will cause a manpower loss from training, mountains, jungle, winter, desert, etc.

Now with the new update you also lose them to manning garrisons and garrison damage.

[ZeratulR]

Originally posted by MIX:

Count the manpower from other countries?

What other countries?

Originally posted by Erotophilia:

The number does indeed include all the Spanish people that died during the war as well. If you look at the civilian population of states that you conquered, you will see that the 2 numbers are not the same. That's because the previous countries you conquered them from, took their own soldiers from these states. If those soldiers died or surrendered before the peace conference, you are now left with less manpower. The thing however is that the conscription laws take the numbers from the higher numbers (the number you would have if no one died).

So that basically means that the total manpower numbers as well as core and non-core population percentages (I assume, that the dead are included in the total manpower for core states as well) are complety useless. For example, you can't predict how much manpower you will get from increasing the consription laws by looking at those numbers, only free manpower + army/air/navy is relevant...

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

Originally posted by :rollingnordvpn::

Uhh problem 1 I dont believe the game actually takes away from State Population when your soldiers die so that 1.1 million you are missing are 1.1 dead.

They also would be missing from attrition as well. Attrition will cause a manpower loss from training, mountains, jungle, winter, desert, etc.

Attrition does not affect manpower, it only costs equipment.

[agznai]

Heard of death before?

[Tomatemon]

Manpower from occupied countries.

Originally posted by ZeratulR:

Originally posted by MIX:

Count the manpower from other countries?

What other countries?

Originally posted by Erotophilia:

The number does indeed include all the Spanish people that died during the war as well. If you look at the civilian population of states that you conquered, you will see that the 2 numbers are not the same. That's because the previous countries you conquered them from, took their own soldiers from these states. If those soldiers died or surrendered before the peace conference, you are now left with less manpower. The thing however is that the conscription laws take the numbers from the higher numbers (the number you would have if no one died).

So that basically means that the total manpower numbers as well as core and non-core population percentages (I assume, that the dead are included in the total manpower for core states as well) are complety useless. For example, you can't predict how much manpower you will get from increasing the consription laws by looking at those numbers, only free manpower + army/air/navy is relevant...

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

They also would be missing from attrition as well. Attrition will cause a manpower loss from training, mountains, jungle, winter, desert, etc.

Attrition does not affect manpower, it only costs equipment.

[BetterBite]

Originally posted by MIX:

Manpower from occupied countries.

Originally posted by ZeratulR:

What other countries?

So that basically means that the total manpower numbers as well as core and non-core population percentages (I assume, that the dead are included in the total manpower for core states as well) are complety useless. For example, you can't predict how much manpower you will get from increasing the consription laws by looking at those numbers, only free manpower + army/air/navy is relevant...


Attrition does not affect manpower, it only costs equipment.

Manpower from occupied countries is non-core manpower. That doesn't explain whats missing

Originally posted by ZeratulR:

Originally posted by :rollingnordvpn::

Uhh problem 1 I dont believe the game actually takes away from State Population when your soldiers die so that 1.1 million you are missing are 1.1 dead.

I don't think it adds up very well, since I only have 432k losses in the current war and I only finished 1 small war before that with no more then 50k losses and probably 100-100k from garrison losses. Unless that number includes ALL the Spanish people who died in the Civil War?

That 0.229% is like a fraction of your Conscription law used to conscript from non core states and I believe the states recruitable factor further lowers how many people you can recruit from non core states so I dont believe the number is actually going to be exact so there is going to be a further discrepnancy

Well ok, 11,5%*2%=0,23%. That number is completely irrelevant to anything in La Resistance since my actual percentage in non-core land is so much bigger but at least I understand where it comes from.

Alsom wdym by not not having a single colonial divison. How does that link to puppets?

Colonial divisions. As in divisions you create using manpower of your subjects (and recently manpower of exiled governments). I think it usually affects the used manpower number in a weird way, it is substracted from the "army: in the field" number for some reason.

Yes the people who died on the opposite sides of the Civil War didnt magically revive because you won.

Wdym by irrelevant? Like I said the 0.229 is a fraction of your conscription law and i believe is further individually modified by each occupied states compliance and what not.

Oh and another thought popped into my mind, you may have lost manpower aswell due to garrison loses but I dont think that would account for the entire 1.1 million but maybe a portion of it. The other loses may be like the previous lads said, from the civil war

[brainiac1530]

I'd just like to correct one simple thing people keep saying, but which is dead wrong. Casualties do not reduce population (which never goes down for any reason, though it does slowly grow) and recruitable population is just some ratio of that population. Recruitable population is your maximum total manpower. If you currently have more or less total manpower than this cap, then it (de)mobilizes over time. Mobilization is fairly slow, which is why if you're in a real meat grinder of a war, field hospitals can still be meaningful. I have to admit that I have no idea how La Resistance may have changed this, but I suspect it only changed the multiplicative modifier for recruitable population in occupied territories.
https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Manpower

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by brainiac1530:

I have to admit that I have no idea how La Resistance may have changed this, but I suspect it only changed the multiplicative modifier for recruitable population in occupied territories.
https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Manpower

You have multiple factors now.

The first is compliance of occupied territory. The higher the compliance the higher the manpower you receive, along with higher resources, factories, etc.

The second is it takes manpower to man the garrisons of occupied territory. The idea is to design a good suppression unit easily maintained. Which means wasting more army xp building a template that aint eating into needed equipment.

Then you have resistance damage to garrisons, the stronger the resistance the more manpower used as garrisons take damage. This is where people resort to using armored cars to reduce damage taken.

Now you can also have spies reduce war support which can cause draft dodging and such.

I recently played a game as one of the Chinese nation and Germany @#$%ed me over taking Macau (whoel reason I ended up in the war)and then had the balls to request manpower for garrisons, which was something like 600k manpower.

Another game I played Facist Netherlands Germany screwed me over giving me control of Belgium and a couple France territories. I was short like 60k manpower to occupy the garrisons. Between England bombing, naval invasions, and the resistance sabotage it was not easy to anything.

[BetterBite]

Originally posted by brainiac1530:

I'd just like to correct one simple thing people keep saying, but which is dead wrong. Casualties do not reduce population (which never goes down for any reason, though it does slowly grow) and recruitable population is just some ratio of that population. Recruitable population is your maximum total manpower. If you currently have more or less total manpower than this cap, then it (de)mobilizes over time. Mobilization is fairly slow, which is why if you're in a real meat grinder of a war, field hospitals can still be meaningful. I have to admit that I have no idea how La Resistance may have changed this, but I suspect it only changed the multiplicative modifier for recruitable population in occupied territories.
https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Manpower

I had a feeling it didnt reduce the population, it would have been quite fun to up conscription to 100% and reduce a states pop to 0

[ZeratulR]

Yes the people who died on the opposite sides of the Civil War didnt magically revive because you won.

However, they were included in the statistics for the number of people I have available for my army... I mean, why oh why would the figure called "TOTAL MANPOWER" include dead people?!

Wdym by irrelevant? Like I said the 0.229 is a fraction of your conscription law and i believe is further individually modified by each occupied states compliance and what not.

I mean that it doesn't provide and useful information relevant to the game. I look at the screen which clearly states "you have X number of people living in your non-core states and your can recruit Y% of them into your army". Except that Y% is completely wrong (my everage recruitment % across non-core states is probably 4-5 times higher) and if I understood all that was said correctly, X is wrong too, since it doesn't account for people who were recruited from those states and died in the war...

The thing is, I have a feeling that before La Resistance, the Y% at least was pretty accurate since there weren't many ways to modify recruitable population in non-core land. Now it is completely innacurate since there are so many ways to increase that, but nobody just thought to change that number or remove it. As a result it is still on the main screen (well, on the screen you can get on the main screen) and it's hugely misleading.

Originally posted by brainiac1530:

I'd just like to correct one simple thing people keep saying, but which is dead wrong. Casualties do not reduce population (which never goes down for any reason, though it does slowly grow) and recruitable population is just some ratio of that population. Recruitable population is your maximum total manpower. If you currently have more or less total manpower than this cap, then it (de)mobilizes over time.

Ok so I have "maximum total manpower" and "total manpower" (1), that's fine. But then I also have a number shown on the main screen which is also called "total manpower" (2) but which is something completely different. Apparantely

total manpower (2) = total manpower (1) + all the dead people in the states which were recruitable before they, well, died.

That totally makes sense to me!

[Včelí medvídek]

Actually there is not any relation between that numbers so your trying to find "correct equation" will always fail even though optically it cna look it match.
As you missed wiki above, i will quote it for you:

"This (Total manpower) is the sum of the country's off-map free manpower and all controlled states' recruitable population caps, additionally itemized by core and non-core states. It has no practical purpose for the game and importantly is not the sum of any of the other manpower numbers."