Posen should be a german core

[SalzStange]

Arcoding to wikipedia and dozens of historically sites.

Posen was 105 years a part of the german bund btw the reich 1815 - 1920 which is even longer as it was a part of poland at 1936.. but thats not all

And before 1815 it was settled by GERMANIC tribes. Also way longer as the previous polish ownership. the FIRST historically civilisation in posen were also GERMAN tribes!

So it should be core of germany and poland and not only poland. Or core of only germany. but as i said for no way only poland. Thats historically not correct

On top: West balant is also a hungary, serbian and yugoslavian core. Means: If you count it on this way in west balant. You need to do the same on posen. Double standarts are wrong

[Erwin Rommel]

I agree with you and furthermore have something else to add regarding the issue in general that always bugged me.

As the German Reich under Hitler you have the option of offering Slovakia to Poland in exchange for Danzig, and it is usually a good deal because you basically exchange one state for another.

However as Imperial Germany if you have opposed moustache man you have the option of just giving a lousy guarantee to Poland in exchange for *both* Danzig *and* Posen while you don't have to give up anything.

To me this makes absolutely no sense and I don't understand why nobody else is talking about it, Hitler's negotiations and the original 16 Points regarding Danzig and the corridor are historically incompatible with what is considered as authentic history and alternative history in the game, and if we also consider that they are major regions with major populations, the cores matter, especially in multiplayer games, and now with the new resistance system it matters more than ever.

I mean you literally have a focus to "Integrate Alsace-Loraine and Luxembourg" and make them cores but not Posen?? Absolutely retarded.

P.S. We also have to consider that Poland already has a bunch of cores on its eastern lands which actually ethnically belong to Lithuania, Belarus and Ukraine, yet despite Polish mistreatment of these minorities they still get cores of all these states.

[Casual909]

Originally posted by Erwin Rommel:

I agree with you and furthermore have something else to add regarding the issue in general that always bugged me.

As the German Reich under Hitler you have the option of offering Slovakia to Poland in exchange for Danzig, and it is usually a good deal because you basically exchange one state for another.

However as Imperial Germany if you have opposed moustache man you have the option of just giving a lousy guarantee to Poland in exchange for *both* Danzig *and* Posen while you don't have to give up anything.

To me this makes absolutely no sense and I don't understand why nobody else is talking about it, Hitler's negotiations and the original 16 Points regarding Danzig and the corridor are historically incompatible with what is considered as authentic history and alternative history in the game, and if we also consider that they are major regions with major populations, the cores matter, especially in multiplayer games, and now with the new resistance system it matters more than ever.

I mean you literally have a focus to "Integrate Alsace-Loraine and Luxembourg" and make them cores but not Posen?? Absolutely retarded.

P.S. We also have to consider that Poland already has a bunch of cores on its eastern lands which actually ethnically belong to Lithuania, Belarus and Ukraine, yet despite Polish mistreatment of these minorities they still get cores of all these states.

I fully agree! Also the free province of Slovenia which you can get from a focus should become a core because a lot of Germans lived there and it got integrated too IRL. Could also become a focus itself of 35 days or whatever. Maybe they should improve the borders over there for that tho.

They should also add more options for Reichskommissariats to improve upon this aspect imo

[lemurs2]

There was and is a great deal of acrimony over how German or Polish Posnan was at the time.

[ZastavaArms_Tavish]

If Germany should get a core on Poznan then Poland should get a core on Ermland-Masuren and Oberschlesien

[SalzStange]

Originally posted by ZastavaArms_Tavish:

If Germany should get a core on Poznan then Poland should get a core on Ermland-Masuren and Oberschlesien

Before you post things. Maybe learn history. It's not the same;)

Since danzig, Ermland-Masuren is nearly 90% german and was this all time. Already the german tribes of the skiren lived there and not jsut this. The first prooved civilisation in this region were the skiren.... Same with posen but there it was BURGUNDIONEN and lygier.

Anyways i would not bother if poland gets core on it too. Like germany and poland even if this would be very unrealistic since poland has not much to do with Ermland-Masuren out of after the ww2 but the game play before/in ww2.

[ZastavaArms_Tavish]

Originally posted by SalzStange:

Originally posted by ZastavaArms_Tavish:

If Germany should get a core on Poznan then Poland should get a core on Ermland-Masuren and Oberschlesien

Before you post things. Maybe learn history. It's not the same;)

Since danzig, Ermland-Masuren is nearly 90% german and was this all time. Already the german tribes of the skiren lived there and not jsut this. The first prooved civilisation in this region were the skiren.... Same with posen but there it was BURGUNDIONEN and lygier.

Anyways i would not bother if poland gets core on it too. Like germany and poland even if this would be very unrealistic since poland has not much to do with Ermland-Masuren out of after the ww2 but the game play before/in ww2.

Maybe stop being condescending and learn about history yourself. Look at any interwar ethnic map of the Polish region and you will see that a good portion of southern east prussia is ethnically Polish and so is a lot of Oberschlesien. And if you look over at Poznan you will see that it in fact has less German population than the aforementioned regions have Polish population
https://img0.etsystatic.com/054/1/6312872/il_fullxfull.723193138_h6cm.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Central_Europe_%28ethnic%29.JPG
https://www.anesi.com/rmap2.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/5f/e4/c9/5fe4c9c16972e76940fca8da341fd850--russian-revolution-ethnic.jpg

[Mr_Faorry]

Imperial Germany can get cores on Danzig, Katowic and Posnan via a focus where they guarantee Poland in exchange for those states.
As democratic Germany Poland will give them to Germany for free with cores if they are losing their war with the Soviets.

[SalzStange]

Originally posted by ZastavaArms_Tavish:

Originally posted by SalzStange:

Before you post things. Maybe learn history. It's not the same;)

Since danzig, Ermland-Masuren is nearly 90% german and was this all time. Already the german tribes of the skiren lived there and not jsut this. The first prooved civilisation in this region were the skiren.... Same with posen but there it was BURGUNDIONEN and lygier.

Anyways i would not bother if poland gets core on it too. Like germany and poland even if this would be very unrealistic since poland has not much to do with Ermland-Masuren out of after the ww2 but the game play before/in ww2.

Maybe stop being condescending and learn about history yourself. Look at any interwar ethnic map of the Polish region and you will see that a good portion of southern east prussia is ethnically Polish and so is a lot of Oberschlesien. And if you look over at Poznan you will see that it in fact has less German population than the aforementioned regions have Polish population
https://img0.etsystatic.com/054/1/6312872/il_fullxfull.723193138_h6cm.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Central_Europe_%28ethnic%29.JPG
https://www.anesi.com/rmap2.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/5f/e4/c9/5fe4c9c16972e76940fca8da341fd850--russian-revolution-ethnic.jpg

Generally.. if you dislike the offical historical population percentages and you try to proof your position you should take a look at the pictures before posting them xD

I am sorry but if you post pictures and then you write that your own picutre shows somethign else as they do... where is the sense? it's of course ot very relevant and on top: if you look at the posen region which was made in hoi (including other regions) it's definitly not more polish people but this does not matter. As i have descripted above. So it does not make sense that you try to jump on this train.

Fact is that 40% were german the other 60 were czech, polish, and ukrainians (in posen) these are offical stats. btw 38,6% so. West balant had 14% hungarian. Means if you count it like this in posen, you need to do the same on west balant. And about danzig. It had more as 90% germans. "memeland" was as descripted always german. The first settlment was a german tribe as descripted above. Proof it. I do not care. It's a fact. Same with poland the first proven tribes were german. But this does not matter since we only need 1 standart of counting and if you count on west balant that minoritys gets a core. Germany need have a core in posen too.

And about memeland and oberschlesien. as i said. This was never polish as you can read in every historically document, even the polish piasten were 2 german dynastys in schlesia but i would not care if they get a core there.

[ZastavaArms_Tavish]

Honestly I wouldn't mind if Paradox made it possible, but very harsh and difficult for Germany to get cores on parts of Western Poland, showing the beginning of the implementation of Generalplan-Ost while also allowing Poland to lose and gain cores on Eastern Poland and the territories given to them in the Potsdam Agreement respectively. Although with their policy on genocide I doubt they would allow for it

[Sovietball]

imagine being sent historical documents then claiming "this was never polish as you can read in every historical document"

[SalzStange]

Originally posted by ZastavaArms_Tavish:

Honestly I wouldn't mind if Paradox made it possible, but very harsh and difficult for Germany to get cores on parts of Western Poland, showing the beginning of the implementation of Generalplan-Ost while also allowing Poland to lose and gain cores on Eastern Poland and the territories given to them in the Potsdam Agreement respectively. Although with their policy on genocide I doubt they would allow for it

ouch.

Again: Posen was first settled by germans!!!! This is historically proofen the first civilisation lived there were 2 german tribes. And even in the piasten time 2 of the 5 piasten lines were german dynasty and on top... the german reich were 115 years there. Poland 16. ok? So it has nothing to do with general plan ost. Generlal plan ost was not about posen since it was not even a part of the reichskomisariat. Since it's basically a core;) thats what we are talking here. And that the polish people kicked out germans in the 16 years after ww1 does not mean it's a polish core if 115 years the germans alone control it and before that the german tribes were from 400 before christus there and the books even worte that they are longer there...

you do not beleive it? google it. Thanks..

[SalzStange]

Originally posted by Sovietball:

imagine being sent historical documents then claiming "this was never polish as you can read in every historical document"

I am sorry but he posted screenshots and they even show that polish people are NOT the majority (even if they were in posen). Did you looked at them?! So ya? And even if we would take screenshots als proof and not historical numbers. There would not be any sense to do this. Since we have historically numbers of the population. Which of the numbers are wrong? you can google every single number .... and i prefer to have exact numbers and facts and not some fantasys or political wars like soviet biasing.

[ZastavaArms_Tavish]

Originally posted by SalzStange:

Originally posted by ZastavaArms_Tavish:

Maybe stop being condescending and learn about history yourself. Look at any interwar ethnic map of the Polish region and you will see that a good portion of southern east prussia is ethnically Polish and so is a lot of Oberschlesien. And if you look over at Poznan you will see that it in fact has less German population than the aforementioned regions have Polish population
https://img0.etsystatic.com/054/1/6312872/il_fullxfull.723193138_h6cm.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Central_Europe_%28ethnic%29.JPG
https://www.anesi.com/rmap2.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/5f/e4/c9/5fe4c9c16972e76940fca8da341fd850--russian-revolution-ethnic.jpg

I am sorry but if you psot pictures from another timeline it's of corusen ot very relevant and on top: if you look at the psoen region which was made in hoi (including other regions) it's definitly not more polish people but this does not matter. As i have descripted above. So it does not make sense that you try to jump on this train.

Fact is that 40% were german the other 60 were czech, polish, and ukrainians (in posen) these are offical stats. btw 38,6% so. West balant had 14% hungarian. Means if you count it like this in posen, you need to do the same on west balant. And about danzig. It had more as 90% germans. "memeland" was as descripted always german. The first settlment was a german tribe as descripted above. Proof it. I do not care. It's a fact. Same with poland the first proven tribes were german. But this does not matter since we only need 1 standart of counting and if you count on west balant that minoritys gets a core. Germany need have a core in posen too.

And about memeland and oberschlesien. as i said. This was never polish as you can read in every historically document, even the polish piasten were 2 german dynastys in schlesia but i would not care if they get a core there.

1. What "other timeline" what are you talking about? Do you believe in your fantasies so much that you just think these maps aren't real?
2. According to the 1921 census the German population of the Poznan voivodeship was 16.7% and only 9.2% in the 1931 census. Why are you pulling statistics out of thin air?
3. We are not talking about Danzig, we are not talking about Memel.
4. Who settled what first is irrelevant there were periods in history where Germanic tribes reached to the Volga, there were periods where slavic tribes reached the Elbe. For example the oldest known civilisation to have settled the area of Berlin were the Lusatians, a slavic tribe.

[SalzStange]

Originally posted by ZastavaArms_Tavish:

Originally posted by SalzStange:

I am sorry but if you psot pictures from another timeline it's of corusen ot very relevant and on top: if you look at the psoen region which was made in hoi (including other regions) it's definitly not more polish people but this does not matter. As i have descripted above. So it does not make sense that you try to jump on this train.

Fact is that 40% were german the other 60 were czech, polish, and ukrainians (in posen) these are offical stats. btw 38,6% so. West balant had 14% hungarian. Means if you count it like this in posen, you need to do the same on west balant. And about danzig. It had more as 90% germans. "memeland" was as descripted always german. The first settlment was a german tribe as descripted above. Proof it. I do not care. It's a fact. Same with poland the first proven tribes were german. But this does not matter since we only need 1 standart of counting and if you count on west balant that minoritys gets a core. Germany need have a core in posen too.

And about memeland and oberschlesien. as i said. This was never polish as you can read in every historically document, even the polish piasten were 2 german dynastys in schlesia but i would not care if they get a core there.

1. What "other timeline" what are you talking about? Do you believe in your fantasies so much that you just think these maps aren't real?
2. According to the 1921 census the German population of the Poznan voivodeship was 16.7% and only 9.2% in the 1931 census. Why are you pulling statistics out of thin air?
3. We are not talking about Danzig, we are not talking about Memel.
4. Who settled what first is irrelevant there were periods in history where Germanic tribes reached to the Volga, there were periods where slavic tribes reached the Elbe. For example the oldest known civilisation to have settled the area of Berlin were the Lusatians, a slavic tribe.

what did you not understand?
The maps are real and if you know the hoi boarders and the posen baorders on your map, you will see that your map shows a time while germans were the majority. ..... Even if 1936 they were NOT more the majority but this wasn't the topic. The topic is that west balant has a MINORITY of hungarians, like posen 1936... and while west balant gets cored by minority nations. Posen does not.

And the second topic was: that you tryed to tell us that danzig, masuren/memel, east prussia has to do much with poland which is simply wrong and you tryed to proof this with a picture AFTER the piasten dynasty which does not make sense when we talk about the whole timeline and the timeline aroudn 36 like with posen and thats why i have told you. You can google it. No problem. If you do not know about the piasten, the german tribes. and the history of this region. Google is there and will help. I have even given you the names, percentages and times. You can also simply google the population counts i have mentioned to you.

[ZastavaArms_Tavish]

Originally posted by SalzStange:

Originally posted by ZastavaArms_Tavish:

1. What "other timeline" what are you talking about? Do you believe in your fantasies so much that you just think these maps aren't real?
2. According to the 1921 census the German population of the Poznan voivodeship was 16.7% and only 9.2% in the 1931 census. Why are you pulling statistics out of thin air?
3. We are not talking about Danzig, we are not talking about Memel.
4. Who settled what first is irrelevant there were periods in history where Germanic tribes reached to the Volga, there were periods where slavic tribes reached the Elbe. For example the oldest known civilisation to have settled the area of Berlin were the Lusatians, a slavic tribe.

what did you not understand?
The maps are real and if you know the hoi boarders and the posen baorders on your map, you will see that your map shows a time while germans were the majority. ..... Even if 1936 they were NOT more the majority but this wasn't the topic. The topic is that west balant has a MINORITY of hungarians, like posen 1936... and while west balant gets cored by minority nations. Posen does not.

And the second topic was: that you tryed to tell us that danzig and east prussia has to do much with poland which is simpl wrotng and why i have told you. You can google it. No problem. If you do not know abotu the german tribes. I have evne given you the name. You can also simply google the population counts i have mentioned to you.

I never said anything about Danzig or the entirety of East Prussia, just the southern portion of East Prussia. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/Plebiszit_Sprache_Ostpreussen_1920-en.png/800px-Plebiszit_Sprache_Ostpreussen_1920-en.png