Hearts of Iron IV

Hearts of Iron IV

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Not enough special forces cap
So I want to train more paratroopers. I have the manpower and the supply but it said I don't have enough special forces cap. What are special forces cap and how do I get them?
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You get special forces by having more regular units on field:

Mounteneers count as special forces too(so if you want to have paras you may want to dismiss/rebranch mountneers to regular units), each "unit" within devision counts as 1 specialforces unit , so if you have devision with 6 paratropers in them thats 6 special forces

support companies dont count to this and this can be exploited , you can have support company paratropers without paratroper unit and that way it does not count forward cap(or you can have just 1)

paratropers are not there to fight but to hold or cutoff enemy units if you imagine them as "fighting force" you will have bad time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr2F3vHK288

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKL0fL76L5c&


Last edited by Varenvel The Festive Dinosaur; Oct 24, 2018 @ 8:35am
| FM. Vinh Huale Oct 24, 2018 @ 8:39am 
Originally posted by Varenvel the mildly grumpy drago:
You get special forces by having more regular units on field:

Mounteneers count as special forces too(so if you want to have paras you may want to dismiss/rebranch mountneers to regular units), each "unit" within devision counts as 1 specialforces unit , so if you have devision with 6 paratropers in them thats 6 special forces

support companies dont count to this and this can be exploited , you can have support company paratropers without paratroper unit and that way it does not count forward cap(or you can have just 1)

paratropers are not there to fight but to hold or cutoff enemy units if you imagine them as "fighting force" you will have bad time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr2F3vHK288

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKL0fL76L5c&
I'm trying to get like 10 divisions of paratroopers to attack Britiain. Will that work?
Originally posted by Protecc | B> Quicksells:
Originally posted by Varenvel the mildly grumpy drago:
You get special forces by having more regular units on field:

Mounteneers count as special forces too(so if you want to have paras you may want to dismiss/rebranch mountneers to regular units), each "unit" within devision counts as 1 specialforces unit , so if you have devision with 6 paratropers in them thats 6 special forces

support companies dont count to this and this can be exploited , you can have support company paratropers without paratroper unit and that way it does not count forward cap(or you can have just 1)

paratropers are not there to fight but to hold or cutoff enemy units if you imagine them as "fighting force" you will have bad time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr2F3vHK288

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKL0fL76L5c&
I'm trying to get like 10 divisions of paratroopers to attack Britiain. Will that work?

that depends how you use them , i recomend to add as many support companies as you can and use lease but sufficient paratropers in template, good way to attack bitain is drop these around port and in port(if port is defended pause and imidietly tell ones aorund to asault port) if there are not many units there port is yours

and now you can move your divisions quickly without naval invasion

Watch both videos they will teach you all you need to know
Last edited by Varenvel The Festive Dinosaur; Oct 24, 2018 @ 8:42am
| FM. Vinh Huale Oct 24, 2018 @ 8:47am 
Originally posted by Varenvel the mildly grumpy drago:
Originally posted by Protecc | B> Quicksells:
I'm trying to get like 10 divisions of paratroopers to attack Britiain. Will that work?

that depends how you use them , i recomend to add as many support companies as you can and use lease but sufficient paratropers in template, good way to attack bitain is drop these around port and in port(if port is defended pause and imidietly tell ones aorund to asault port) if there are not many units there port is yours

and now you can move your divisions quickly without naval invasion

Watch both videos they will teach you all you need to know
Problem is here that I have no navy left. Britain struck them all down and I don't have enough oil to produce more :c
Originally posted by Protecc | B> Quicksells:
Originally posted by Varenvel the mildly grumpy drago:

that depends how you use them , i recomend to add as many support companies as you can and use lease but sufficient paratropers in template, good way to attack bitain is drop these around port and in port(if port is defended pause and imidietly tell ones aorund to asault port) if there are not many units there port is yours

and now you can move your divisions quickly without naval invasion

Watch both videos they will teach you all you need to know
Problem is here that I have no navy left. Britain struck them all down and I don't have enough oil to produce more :c

you dont need navy you just need enough for your units move across chanel , and that can be achived with scraps

you wont able to defeat britain with just paratroopers its unachivable unless you know game inside out

(assuming you would take port with paratroopers to skip naval invasion)
Last edited by Varenvel The Festive Dinosaur; Oct 24, 2018 @ 8:51am
| FM. Vinh Huale Oct 24, 2018 @ 8:51am 
Originally posted by Varenvel the mildly grumpy drago:
Originally posted by Protecc | B> Quicksells:
Problem is here that I have no navy left. Britain struck them all down and I don't have enough oil to produce more :c

you dont need navy you just need enough for your units move across chanel , and that can be achived with scraps

you wont able to defeat britain with just paratroopers its unachivable unless you know game inside out
I so sorry to ask this but I am very new to this game (installed a few days ago). How do I send units across the channel?
Originally posted by Protecc | B> Quicksells:
Originally posted by Varenvel the mildly grumpy drago:

you dont need navy you just need enough for your units move across chanel , and that can be achived with scraps

you wont able to defeat britain with just paratroopers its unachivable unless you know game inside out
I so sorry to ask this but I am very new to this game (installed a few days ago). How do I send units across the channel?

move them to port and then you can move them to any friendly provice(or capcured one( , otherwise you need battle plan , and plan naval invasion (who will need air and naval superiority otherwise they will get squished , unless your lucky and port was undefended)
drewbstar Oct 24, 2018 @ 11:20am 
Originally posted by Varenvel the mildly grumpy drago:
Originally posted by Protecc | B> Quicksells:
I so sorry to ask this but I am very new to this game (installed a few days ago). How do I send units across the channel?

move them to port and then you can move them to any friendly provice(or capcured one( , otherwise you need battle plan , and plan naval invasion (who will need air and naval superiority otherwise they will get squished , unless your lucky and port was undefended)
IMHO, it is better to use your special forces on Marines, spam naval bombers, and navally invade Norway then Scotland. Bleed the Brits dry in the 2 region wide mountain bottle neck, then roll in the tanks.

That might be a bit more advanced, but it is a surefire way of knocking the UK over.

Naval wins are easy as Germany you honestly only need to spam subs, spam land based naval bombers, and let the navy bleed. After that, send out a Battleship or two (with the bombers) and wipe up.
Subject to change once MtG comes out.
Originally posted by drewbstar:
Originally posted by Varenvel the mildly grumpy drago:

move them to port and then you can move them to any friendly provice(or capcured one( , otherwise you need battle plan , and plan naval invasion (who will need air and naval superiority otherwise they will get squished , unless your lucky and port was undefended)
IMHO, it is better to use your special forces on Marines, spam naval bombers, and navally invade Norway then Scotland. Bleed the Brits dry in the 2 region wide mountain bottle neck, then roll in the tanks.

That might be a bit more advanced, but it is a surefire way of knocking the UK over.

Naval wins are easy as Germany you honestly only need to spam subs, spam land based naval bombers, and let the navy bleed. After that, send out a Battleship or two (with the bombers) and wipe up.
Subject to change once MtG comes out.

Naval invasions is mixed bag sometimes it works sometimes it does not and to be really relialable you need to reserch better landing craft and better marines and you need naval , and preferably air superiority , also naval invesions can ocasionaly get unlucky intercept

While paras are usualy fine as they are expendable , you can drop them in several ports and see what sticks , you only need air superiority to do that
| FM. Vinh Huale Oct 24, 2018 @ 9:11pm 
Originally posted by drewbstar:
Originally posted by Varenvel the mildly grumpy drago:

move them to port and then you can move them to any friendly provice(or capcured one( , otherwise you need battle plan , and plan naval invasion (who will need air and naval superiority otherwise they will get squished , unless your lucky and port was undefended)
IMHO, it is better to use your special forces on Marines, spam naval bombers, and navally invade Norway then Scotland. Bleed the Brits dry in the 2 region wide mountain bottle neck, then roll in the tanks.

That might be a bit more advanced, but it is a surefire way of knocking the UK over.

Naval wins are easy as Germany you honestly only need to spam subs, spam land based naval bombers, and let the navy bleed. After that, send out a Battleship or two (with the bombers) and wipe up.
Subject to change once MtG comes out.
Um, so you want me to get naval bombers and submarines to invade Norway, and then Scotland.
Problem is I only have 3 submarines and around 200 naval bombers. Britain completely wiped out my navy. Also, does naval bombers and submarine use special forces cap? And what is land based naval bombers? Are those just normal naval bombers or bombers?
Last edited by | FM. Vinh Huale; Oct 24, 2018 @ 9:15pm
drewbstar Oct 24, 2018 @ 9:50pm 
Originally posted by Protecc | B> Quicksells:
Originally posted by drewbstar:
IMHO, it is better to use your special forces on Marines, spam naval bombers, and navally invade Norway then Scotland. Bleed the Brits dry in the 2 region wide mountain bottle neck, then roll in the tanks.

That might be a bit more advanced, but it is a surefire way of knocking the UK over.

Naval wins are easy as Germany you honestly only need to spam subs, spam land based naval bombers, and let the navy bleed. After that, send out a Battleship or two (with the bombers) and wipe up.
Subject to change once MtG comes out.
Um, so you want me to get naval bombers and submarines to invade Norway, and then Scotland.
Problem is I only have 3 submarines and around 200 naval bombers. Britain completely wiped out my navy. Also, does naval bombers and submarine use special forces cap? And what is land based naval bombers? Are those just normal naval bombers or bombers?
So, basically, the air and navy are SUPER unbalanced right now.
Hence the Man the Guns update which heavily focuses on navies and air forces.

The British AI is stupid. It has a large Royal Navy, and knows that Germany is pretty landlocked. Because of this, it will almost always put the bulk of its force in the English Channel, and forget it. As I mention before, air/navy is very unbalanced. Land based planes (i.e. not on a carrier) SHRED carrier based planes. On top of this, naval bomber do huge damage versus navies, more than an entire fleet could do alone.

So, my personal strats:
-Hide your navy behind Denmark (the straits), so once you take it, the Royal Navy can't hit it. Simply keep it in port near Danzig.
-The AI is terrible at naval invasions, don't worry about needing to hold the sea tiles near your west coast. Simply put your garrison units on each port, maybe 1-2 on the adjacent tiles for important ports.
-Conquer as normal. Make sure Nationalist Spain wins the civil war.
-Once you have France/Denmark, you have two options. Either you can blitz the USSR, or you can go after the UK. Going after the UK presents an interesting bonus because if you take that+France you can get a whopping 2.00+ political power a day, just for being Germany.

-Take Norway. Build a few RADAR stations on the coast to help your air units.
-Spam subs (they're cheap, use your conquered land's dockyards)
-Send out your subs with air support (Naval bombers on naval bombing runs)
-Let the bombers do all the heavy lifting
-It takes some figuring out, but you'll get it after you try a few times.
-It might take a while, but your bombers will slowly but surely wear down the royal navy, with the AI having no idea how to repair/replace them
-Once you've significantly depleted them, bring out your navy from it's hiding place
-Invade Scotland, bottleneck them, bleed them dry, bring forth the tanks
-If you have trouble taking a port, simply launch several, smaller ones. Take the areas near the port, and if push comes to shove, simply build a new port on a tile you hold nearby.

If you want me to clarify anything, let me know

oh, also:
-You can actually take on the USSR before the UK, like how it played out historically. The AI is seriously bad at naval invasions onces you have a few seaports (Westwall via focus helps a lot)
-The only things that add to your special forces cap are Paratroopers, Marines, and Mountaineers. Nothing else.
| FM. Vinh Huale Oct 24, 2018 @ 11:59pm 
Originally posted by drewbstar:
Originally posted by Protecc | B> Quicksells:
Um, so you want me to get naval bombers and submarines to invade Norway, and then Scotland.
Problem is I only have 3 submarines and around 200 naval bombers. Britain completely wiped out my navy. Also, does naval bombers and submarine use special forces cap? And what is land based naval bombers? Are those just normal naval bombers or bombers?
So, basically, the air and navy are SUPER unbalanced right now.
Hence the Man the Guns update which heavily focuses on navies and air forces.

The British AI is stupid. It has a large Royal Navy, and knows that Germany is pretty landlocked. Because of this, it will almost always put the bulk of its force in the English Channel, and forget it. As I mention before, air/navy is very unbalanced. Land based planes (i.e. not on a carrier) SHRED carrier based planes. On top of this, naval bomber do huge damage versus navies, more than an entire fleet could do alone.

So, my personal strats:
-Hide your navy behind Denmark (the straits), so once you take it, the Royal Navy can't hit it. Simply keep it in port near Danzig.
-The AI is terrible at naval invasions, don't worry about needing to hold the sea tiles near your west coast. Simply put your garrison units on each port, maybe 1-2 on the adjacent tiles for important ports.
-Conquer as normal. Make sure Nationalist Spain wins the civil war.
-Once you have France/Denmark, you have two options. Either you can blitz the USSR, or you can go after the UK. Going after the UK presents an interesting bonus because if you take that+France you can get a whopping 2.00+ political power a day, just for being Germany.

-Take Norway. Build a few RADAR stations on the coast to help your air units.
-Spam subs (they're cheap, use your conquered land's dockyards)
-Send out your subs with air support (Naval bombers on naval bombing runs)
-Let the bombers do all the heavy lifting
-It takes some figuring out, but you'll get it after you try a few times.
-It might take a while, but your bombers will slowly but surely wear down the royal navy, with the AI having no idea how to repair/replace them
-Once you've significantly depleted them, bring out your navy from it's hiding place
-Invade Scotland, bottleneck them, bleed them dry, bring forth the tanks
-If you have trouble taking a port, simply launch several, smaller ones. Take the areas near the port, and if push comes to shove, simply build a new port on a tile you hold nearby.

If you want me to clarify anything, let me know

oh, also:
-You can actually take on the USSR before the UK, like how it played out historically. The AI is seriously bad at naval invasions onces you have a few seaports (Westwall via focus helps a lot)
-The only things that add to your special forces cap are Paratroopers, Marines, and Mountaineers. Nothing else.
So I have to naval invade scotland. I tried to do naval invasions before but it won't go. The troops will just stay at the port. I have air supremacy though. Is naval supremacy also needed?
Also a little of topic but I tried sending the paratroopers to Britain but I won't go too. Even with air supremacy.
drewbstar Oct 25, 2018 @ 12:24am 
Originally posted by Protecc | B> Quicksells:
Originally posted by drewbstar:
So, basically, the air and navy are SUPER unbalanced right now.
Hence the Man the Guns update which heavily focuses on navies and air forces.

The British AI is stupid. It has a large Royal Navy, and knows that Germany is pretty landlocked. Because of this, it will almost always put the bulk of its force in the English Channel, and forget it. As I mention before, air/navy is very unbalanced. Land based planes (i.e. not on a carrier) SHRED carrier based planes. On top of this, naval bomber do huge damage versus navies, more than an entire fleet could do alone.

So, my personal strats:
-Hide your navy behind Denmark (the straits), so once you take it, the Royal Navy can't hit it. Simply keep it in port near Danzig.
-The AI is terrible at naval invasions, don't worry about needing to hold the sea tiles near your west coast. Simply put your garrison units on each port, maybe 1-2 on the adjacent tiles for important ports.
-Conquer as normal. Make sure Nationalist Spain wins the civil war.
-Once you have France/Denmark, you have two options. Either you can blitz the USSR, or you can go after the UK. Going after the UK presents an interesting bonus because if you take that+France you can get a whopping 2.00+ political power a day, just for being Germany.

-Take Norway. Build a few RADAR stations on the coast to help your air units.
-Spam subs (they're cheap, use your conquered land's dockyards)
-Send out your subs with air support (Naval bombers on naval bombing runs)
-Let the bombers do all the heavy lifting
-It takes some figuring out, but you'll get it after you try a few times.
-It might take a while, but your bombers will slowly but surely wear down the royal navy, with the AI having no idea how to repair/replace them
-Once you've significantly depleted them, bring out your navy from it's hiding place
-Invade Scotland, bottleneck them, bleed them dry, bring forth the tanks
-If you have trouble taking a port, simply launch several, smaller ones. Take the areas near the port, and if push comes to shove, simply build a new port on a tile you hold nearby.

If you want me to clarify anything, let me know

oh, also:
-You can actually take on the USSR before the UK, like how it played out historically. The AI is seriously bad at naval invasions onces you have a few seaports (Westwall via focus helps a lot)
-The only things that add to your special forces cap are Paratroopers, Marines, and Mountaineers. Nothing else.
So I have to naval invade scotland. I tried to do naval invasions before but it won't go. The troops will just stay at the port. I have air supremacy though. Is naval supremacy also needed?
Also a little of topic but I tried sending the paratroopers to Britain but I won't go too. Even with air supremacy.
Yes, you need it. But having air helps directly, so make sure you have it too.

As for paratroopers, you need lots of air, plus a plane/airport.
�[Dire_Venom]� Oct 25, 2018 @ 12:46am 
I find the small cap quite irritating and personally just use a mod to increase it.
It really hurts small countries like NZ not being able to have small elite forces due to these caps.
glythe Oct 25, 2018 @ 1:15am 
Originally posted by Protecc | B> Quicksells:
Um, so you want me to get naval bombers and submarines to invade Norway, and then Scotland.
Problem is I only have 3 submarines and around 200 naval bombers. Britain completely wiped out my navy. Also, does naval bombers and submarine use special forces cap? And what is land based naval bombers? Are those just normal naval bombers or bombers?

Let's talk about something.... why invade norway? This is one of those countries you are better off not taking. If you want them to join you then flip them via political power (influence a politcal party). Taking norway means you have to defend the Norway coast when the USA gets active.

Take denmark/sweeden but leave norway alone. Make them fascist and they will be a nice little coast guard for the region. And you can trade half of their tungsten since you will be their biggest influence buddy.

As the Germans your navy should chill in the Baltic sea until you are ready for it to do something else. Until you get better at the game you might just want to leave it there and ignore it.

Ships and planes to not influence your special forces cap.

Planes are either Fighters/bombers.
They are either carrier based or take off from runways on the ground.
-Naval based planes get a penalty for having too many carriers in a group (4 unless you have a specific naval doctrine). Land based planes get a penalty for having too many planes stationed at the airbase (this will be a number like 510/400).

Fighters come in heavy and normal versions. I think all the heavy fighters are land based... basically they trade agility for power and longer range. Most nations can completely ignore heavy fighters.

Bombers come in 4 varieties.

CAS - close air support specialized for ground battles (can bomb ships but not good at it***)
naval - bombs ships.... basically torpedo planes
tactical- heavy ground only based bombers with about double range of CAS. They can support ground battles or bomb infrastructure. Theoretically they can bomb ships but don't use them for this purpose.
strategic-attacks infrastructure (factories/roads/etc). With research can drop nukes

*** note: this is kind of ironic as dive bombers in WWII were way more effective at killing ships than torpedo bombers. fun little trivia fact.

Originally posted by drewbstar:
That might be a bit more advanced, but it is a surefire way of knocking the UK over.

Naval wins are easy as Germany you honestly only need to spam subs, spam land based naval bombers, and let the navy bleed. After that, send out a Battleship or two (with the bombers) and wipe up.
Subject to change once MtG comes out.

Just so you know... right now battleships and carriers are the most powerful ships. Did you know for example that you can't even attack a battleship with only subs? The game automatically ends the battle for both you and the AI regardless of the attacker! Man the guns is most likely going to nerf them significantly with fuel costs.

As Germany attacking the UK you can skip carriers and just build battleships/heavy or light cruisers. It is very possible to attack and lose very few ships. If you focus early on with plane production you can win the English Channel air battle long before you decide to use your navy.


Originally posted by drewbstar:
So, basically, the air and navy are SUPER unbalanced right now
What? Not even.... Planes have been nerfed at least 3 times.

Go back and load up vanilla HoI IV pre patch and watch Germany bomb any country it attacks with CAS pre nerf. I have a screenshot of me playing as Italy and killing 5 Million Soviets with 46k losses (that is not a typo).

In the past there was a problem with ground based planes in that they attacked once during a sea battle and basically left. I believe this has been fixed as it made naval planes 100x better than land based planes. This makes sense actually when you consider launching planes at sea is something of a risky business.



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Date Posted: Oct 24, 2018 @ 8:19am
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