Hearts of Iron IV

Hearts of Iron IV

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SGT Spack 7 May 10, 2019 @ 8:58am
how is the ai using cas and fighter mk1's to beat my jet mk2 in air superiority?
seirously this game is stupid just lost 24 40witdh modern tanks as spain has over 300 divisions deathstacked on ports which is bull♥♥♥♥♥♥and i cant nuke as they have cas which trumps my jets apparently
Last edited by SGT Spack 7; May 10, 2019 @ 8:59am
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Showing 1-12 of 12 comments
UncleJoe May 10, 2019 @ 12:06pm 
Git gud
CloudSeeker May 10, 2019 @ 12:50pm 
Jets are actually inferior to the normal planes when you get the correct bonuses when you research them.

From what I gather Agility is the best stat for fighters. So lets compare Germany Fighter 3 vs Germany Jets.

Messerschmitt gives +10% agility and max speed

Jet Fighter I
Unlock year: 1945
Air Attack: 36
Air Defence: 15
Agility: 72
Max Speed: 950 km/h
Range 1200 km
Fuel Usage: 0,4
Naval Attack (damage): 5
Manpower: 40
Production cost: 30
Material required: 2 Aluminium, 3 Tungsten, 1 Rubber

Jet Fighter II
Unlock year: 1950
Air Attack: 40
Air Defence: 18
Agility: 72
Max Speed: 1100 km/h
Range 2200 km
Fuel Usage: 0,4
Naval Attack (damage): 5
Manpower: 40
Production cost: 32
Material required: 3 Aluminium, 3 Tungsten, 1 Rubber

Fighter III (With bonuses from Messerschmitt)
Unlock year: 1944
Air Attack: 32
Air Defence: 14
Agility: 80 (88 with bonus)
Max Speed: 720 km/h (792 km/h with bonuses)
Range 1200 km
Fuel Usage: 0,2
Naval Attack (damage): 6
Manpower: 20
Production cost: 28
Material required: 4 Aluminium, 1 Rubber


So. Looking at the stats we can tell a few things.

Since Jet Fighter I only give really small benefits over Fighter III with a heavy cost to agility while costing double the fuel, they only really offer a higher speed while being 6,7% slower to produce and being one year later then Fighter 3. You only benefit from using these if you manage to rush them long before you are supposed to get Fighter 3. Like using Jet Fighters in 1942.

When you compare Jet Fighter II with Fighter 3 it is generally superior apart from agility. Since agility gives a percentage mod to the damage dealt. This means the Jet fighter can get a debuff which only allows it to deal 55% of its Air Attack towards a Fighter 3 as it has lower Agility. It means the Air Attack can go as low as 22 instead of 40. However. Since the Jet Fighter II is released 6 years later and is about 12% harder to make without adding in the extra resources. We can assume there is more then enough Fighter III to cover what the Jet Fighter brings.
Since the Jet Fighter II cost twice as much in manpower and fuel cost. A equally sized group of air wings will include twice as many Fighter III as Jet Fighters II. This means the Fighter III as twice the force the Jet Fighters does. You will lose this battle just by numbers alone. What you gain from Jet Fighters is speed and range. But I do not see why you should bring 2000 Jet Fighters to a 10,000 Fighter III fight.
Ryan May 10, 2019 @ 3:35pm 
You need to read about how Supply works in this game. Landing 24 40-width divisions onto a naval port should never be done. Even if you had air superiority you would lose them all because you could not supply them.

You are blaming the game when there is a critical game concept you do not understand.
SGT Spack 7 May 11, 2019 @ 5:48am 
Originally posted by Ryan:
You need to read about how Supply works in this game. Landing 24 40-width divisions onto a naval port should never be done. Even if you had air superiority you would lose them all because you could not supply them.

You are blaming the game when there is a critical game concept you do not understand.
no i do understand very well i used my field marshal to give extra supplies so i could push quickly but it did not matter as i couldnt use nukes and my cas were only doing 0.2 damage to the enemy because theyre cas and fighter 1's beat my jets in air supeiority the game is broke af
Magni May 11, 2019 @ 5:54am 
Originally posted by Latios:
Also, fun fact. Jet aircraft are actually not suited for fighting propeller aircraft in real life.

Um yes, yes they are? There's a reason propeller fighters died out the moment jet aircraft started being a thing. The sheer advantage in thrust means a jet is free to dictate the engagement and pounce on the slower propeller craft at leisure. Energy fighting > turn fighting, and a jet will beat a prop fighter in energy fighting almost by default.

Originally posted by Ryan:
no i do understand very well i used my field marshal to give extra supplies so i could push quickly but it did not matter as i couldnt use nukes and my cas were only doing 0.2 damage to the enemy because theyre cas and fighter 1's beat my jets in air supeiority the game is broke af

So you were trying to navally invade, with tanks. Which get huge maluses on naval invasions. Onto a port province, which normally means an urban province. Which gives even more maluses to tanks. Oh, and you threw 24 40-width division into a battle with only like 80 width frontage. Which also means that your two divisionsin the battle will run out of org near simultaneously, leaving very little time for reinforcements to be brought up.

Here's a hint: Get 20-width Marines. Like 4-6 divisions of them. And spread the landings out to the provinces next to the port, so you can quickly isolate it with the divisions landing next to it while your landing on it pins the defenders in place.

As for air superiority, air superiority is a hnumbers game.Also, you might wanna check out your aircraft ranges because chances are you're suffering a notable efficiency malus from only covering part of the air zone.
Last edited by Magni; May 11, 2019 @ 2:54pm
spike2071 May 11, 2019 @ 6:23am 
Originally posted by SGT Spack 7:
seirously this game is stupid...

You have been moaning about how bad, broken, and filled with cheating AI this game is for months, and yet you've added several hundred hours into it in that time frame. I don't think it's the game that's stupid.
UncleJoe May 11, 2019 @ 6:31am 
blame the game
LOL
Ryan May 11, 2019 @ 7:28am 
What is your Air Detection %? If it is low, then there is only a small chance your superior planes will even find the enemy on a sortie?

As someone else said, land with Marines. Once you own the port, you need to upgrade it to level 10 ASAP. If it is level 1, then you won't be able to send reinforcements. In the lower right corner there is a little button called Supplies. Click it and check the map. Mouse-over province areas to see the usage and max supply. You will be able to estimate how many more divisions can be supported in any area as well as the route the supplies take to get there. Tanks require enormous supplies.

You don't need to memorize the math, just understand how it works:
https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Logistics

Ryan May 11, 2019 @ 7:31am 
Related famous quotes:
“The tactics…no, amateurs discuss tactics,…. Professional soldiers study logistics.” – Tom Clancy

“Behind every great leader there was an even greater logistician.” – M. Cox

“You will not find it difficult to prove that battles, campaigns, and even wars have been won or lost primarily because of logistics.” – General Dwight D. Eisenhower

“Leaders win through logistics. Vision, sure. Strategy, yes. But when you go to war, you need to have both toilet paper and bullets at the right place at the right time. In other words, you must win through superior logistics.” – Tom Peters

“The line between disorder and order lies in logistics…” – Sun Tzu

“Logistics is the ball and chain of armored warfare.” – Heinz Guderian

“My logisticians are a humorless lot … they know if my campaign fails, they are the first ones I will slay.” – Alexander the Great
Brandon_Lee May 11, 2019 @ 10:09am 
Okay...
Invading a shoreline guarded by 300 divisions is a bad idea.
Relying solely on jets to gain superiority is a bad idea.
Invading with 40 width divisions is a bad idea.
Invading with armor is a bad idea.
Relying on commander supply boost to cover enormous amount of divisions is a bad idea.
Invading at ports is a bad idea.
And the list goes on and on... More so considering there's something you didn't tell us.
So you see, you just did it all wrong, pretty much everything that could possibly be done wrong. Nothing to complain about, you've just been punished by using 'right-click-and-pray' strategy - it doesn't work here, sorry. If you want that type of gameplay - go play starcraft or c&c. If you want to be good at this game - then just listen what people say and learn from your mistakes.
seashell May 11, 2019 @ 10:37am 
remember operational integrity and strategic destruction also gives fighter agility xddd
glythe May 11, 2019 @ 4:26pm 
Funny enough you can build the fighter III to have way more agility than either Jet due to the prop research bonus.

From the wiki on agility:

"When two planes meet in combat, the more agile plane will be able to use a greater percentage of its air attack value. If your plane is hit by an opponent that has lower agility, then the damage to your plane can be reduced by -45%"

In other words Agility is better than literally everything else.

But the speed is much lower and if I am not mistaken speed translates to air defense.

"an advantage or disadvantage in speed or agility can modify the damage from -30% up to +30%"


There may be some old data in one place or both.


What I can tell you for sure is that faster planes are better at disrupting bombers.

"up to +100% bonus from fighters' speed (at 1500 km/h)"



So the take away is this.....

Build fighter IIIs with the correct bonus and have them on air superiority.
Build some jets - if you are getting bombed or you have reached 1950 tech.

You can have more prop planes than jets due to the cost difference in production and the fact that one is a later tech. More planes = more air power.

Jet bombers are not going to be easily intercepted by prop fighters


No matter what do not neglect Radar as detection limits how many planes you can use to engage the enemy!
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Date Posted: May 10, 2019 @ 8:58am
Posts: 12