This game is becoming unplayable due to the frontline AI.

[iMajoraGaming]

I am absolutely, so utterly done with this ruining entire runs. I can spend an unreal amount of time preparing a defense, have everything perfect, only for the incompetent AI to leave gaps on level 10 forts, and literally make a war unwinnable. I have yet to figure out how this is STILL an issue and it literally is something that has made me put down HoI4, any time I try to pick it back up, this happens.

I already micro everything. I can't however compensate fast enough when a ravenous enemy just walks right into my defenses because the AI, somehow, was able to convince itself that this is a thing it should do.

I literally am now fighting a losing war as Austria-Hungary because my prepared defenses were defeated by a 3 year old flaw in the AI. Thanks Paradox. Nice to see you're using the money from the overpriced tanks and music to not actually improve the game.

Austria-Hungary is already one of the most unfun games to play due to the fact that it's entire focus tree is RNG. Get a good run? Haha well look at that, all the restarts are now moot because the AI abandoned the Sudetenland's forts to do whatever inane thing it concocted.

I can handle being bad and making dumb decisions when I'm the one doing it. I will fully comp mistakes I make. I am not flawless, I don't even think I'm particularly good at HoI4. I am not good at fighting the Germans. They can have 3 divisions and still beat a level 7 fort with radar, air support, and an absurdly good prepared defense. That's fine, I may not like it, may struggle, but at least I lose an actual fight instead of being seemingly sabotaged by my own AI.

[GoldenTalon]

Gotta agree. Frontline mechanic never worked right and it seems worse in MtG.

[Ryan]

Don't use Front Lines for defense. Problem solved.

[iMajoraGaming]

Originally posted by Ryan:

Don't use Front Lines for defense. Problem solved.

I don't think you're understanding that the game literally does not care what you're using the order for. It is broken.

"Just pretend it's not a problem!" Nah. I'm good. I'll stick with actually trying to get it fixed.

[loks]

dont use front lines at all XD

[Gebatron]

Fallback lines? I don’t really use them myself, but could they help at all?

[The Notorious GSB]

How long are the fronts you're trying to hold? There's a few things that can be done to make the system work better. If you work within it's logic it is a much less frustrating system.

A good example of this is trying to set front lines that are too long. The AI is forced to have to adapt to the changing priorities of defending a front hundreds of miles long. As such, there is a tendency to have to constantly reshuffle the front.

I'm not trying to defend it, but I think you'll enjoy it more if you are more moderate in your expectation. The fact that you're already trying to micro anything suggests you're fighting against the system, rather than working with it...

[iMajoraGaming]

Originally posted by Gebatron:

Fallback lines? I don’t really use them myself, but could they help at all?

They're the best overall alternative, their drawback being they're not fluid or adaptive. If a gap opens up you have to manually redraw the lines. Front lines are crucial because of the fact that they're /supposed/ to adapt properly and whatnot.

[iMajoraGaming]

Originally posted by Also named Bort:

How long are the fronts you're trying to hold? There's a few things that can be done to make the system work better. If you work within it's logic it is a much less frustrating system.

A good example of this is trying to set front lines that are too long. The AI is forced to have to adapt to the changing priorities of defending a front hundreds of miles long. As such, there is a tendency to have to constantly reshuffle the front.

I'm not trying to defend it, but I think you'll enjoy it more if you are more moderate in your expectation. The fact that you're already trying to micro anything suggests you're fighting against the system, rather than working with it...

I have over a thousand hours in HoI4. I micro manage because it prevents casualties and lets me be more specific with what I want units to do.

Also the length of fronts is irrelevant in this case. There are 3 full sized armies defending a front that a single army can cover all but one province of, and frontlines operate off of cooperative fluidity. That one province is then covered by a different army. Then the line automatically uses excess troops to reinforce battles and, in theory, should literally never leave an opening, since units respond automatically to a tile being left vacant. Even if the unit hasn't left the province yet, a unit will automatically begin moving to that province to prevent even an hour of vacancy.

See the problem? It sounds like a flawless system because it's intended to do half of the work for you. It doesn't, and serially does absurdist things that leave the lines open. It doesn't matter how long the front is, if there is one troop per province then the AI should automatically know how to respond and act according to its own stated purpose as an order.

I don't really get whatsoever how me micro managing resources is "fighting against the system." It's covering for the system being literally conspiratorial in its efforts to find new and creative ways to sabotage the player, and is the only actual option if you don't use frontlines since no other order exists that does *ANYTHING* automatically.

I've got a thousand hours in HoI4. I'm not new, unfamiliar with fronts, the game, its mechanics, or its bugs. This bug was reported as far back as August of 2016, two months after launch. It's still here. It is still just as bad. It can and will happen to a front a single tile in width and length if you allow it.

I'm not an exception. This happens on fronts that are as small as they come. The AI does not care about length of a front, smaller doesn't make it less likely. It just makes it less likely that the enemy will flood through the gap.

If people didn't micro they would literally be allowing those gaps to get wider and wider as the AI panics and self-destructs due to the mess its made for itself.

The literal only benefit frontline has is that unlike a fallback like, it adapts to a front. Fallback lines are static and don't actually respond to changes. This isn't even terribly inconvenient. But that you have to constantly redraw the line and that units remain static no matter what means that it's not actually viable.

That's literally the problem. This isn't player fault. This isn't new. This isn't based off of front size. It will literally happen to anyone, under any circumstance given, with literally every post about this ending with a player scrambling to try fixing the massive flood and failing to most of the time.

Expecting something to not open the gates to the enemy without a shot being fired isn't a matter of expectations. I expect literally nothing from the AI and yet it still finds ways to disappoint me three years after launch.

It's literally the same thing France does, which is literally leave its borders undefended to allow for itself to be capitulated, except it's an army AI and not a national one.

[The Notorious GSB]

Originally posted by iMajoraGaming:

Originally posted by Also named Bort:

How long are the fronts you're trying to hold? There's a few things that can be done to make the system work better. If you work within it's logic it is a much less frustrating system.

A good example of this is trying to set front lines that are too long. The AI is forced to have to adapt to the changing priorities of defending a front hundreds of miles long. As such, there is a tendency to have to constantly reshuffle the front.

I'm not trying to defend it, but I think you'll enjoy it more if you are more moderate in your expectation. The fact that you're already trying to micro anything suggests you're fighting against the system, rather than working with it...

I have over a thousand hours in HoI4. I micro manage because it prevents casualties and lets me be more specific with what I want units to do.

Also the length of fronts is irrelevant in this case. There are 3 full sized armies defending a front that a single army can cover all but one province of, and frontlines operate off of cooperative fluidity. That one province is then covered by a different army. Then the line automatically uses excess troops to reinforce battles and, in theory, should literally never leave an opening, since units respond automatically to a tile being left vacant. Even if the unit hasn't left the province yet, a unit will automatically begin moving to that province to prevent even an hour of vacancy.

See the problem? It sounds like a flawless system because it's intended to do half of the work for you. It doesn't, and serially does absurdist things that leave the lines open. It doesn't matter how long the front is, if there is one troop per province then the AI should automatically know how to respond and act according to its own stated purpose as an order.

I don't really get whatsoever how me micro managing resources is "fighting against the system." It's covering for the system being literally conspiratorial in its efforts to find new and creative ways to sabotage the player, and is the only actual option if you don't use frontlines since no other order exists that does *ANYTHING* automatically.

I've got a thousand hours in HoI4. I'm not new, unfamiliar with fronts, the game, its mechanics, or its bugs. This bug was reported as far back as August of 2016, two months after launch. It's still here. It is still just as bad. It can and will happen to a front a single tile in width and length if you allow it.

I'm not an exception. This happens on fronts that are as small as they come. The AI does not care about length of a front, smaller doesn't make it less likely. It just makes it less likely that the enemy will flood through the gap.

If people didn't micro they would literally be allowing those gaps to get wider and wider as the AI panics and self-destructs due to the mess its made for itself.

The literal only benefit frontline has is that unlike a fallback like, it adapts to a front. Fallback lines are static and don't actually respond to changes. This isn't even terribly inconvenient. But that you have to constantly redraw the line and that units remain static no matter what means that it's not actually viable.

That's literally the problem. This isn't player fault. This isn't new. This isn't based off of front size. It will literally happen to anyone, under any circumstance given, with literally every post about this ending with a player scrambling to try fixing the massive flood and failing to most of the time.

Expecting something to not open the gates to the enemy without a shot being fired isn't a matter of expectations. I expect literally nothing from the AI and yet it still finds ways to disappoint me three years after launch.

It's literally the same thing France does, which is literally leave its borders undefended to allow for itself to be capitulated, except it's an army AI and not a national one.

You seem quite defensive for someone who makes reference to how bad you are at the game in the original post...

Anyway, that aside, maybe using the 'garrison' function would help you, particularly if they're told to focus forts, but that's only speculation. I wish you luck with your front lines for the future, all the same!

[iMajoraGaming]

Originally posted by Also named Bort:

Originally posted by iMajoraGaming:

I have over a thousand hours in HoI4. I micro manage because it prevents casualties and lets me be more specific with what I want units to do.

Also the length of fronts is irrelevant in this case. There are 3 full sized armies defending a front that a single army can cover all but one province of, and frontlines operate off of cooperative fluidity. That one province is then covered by a different army. Then the line automatically uses excess troops to reinforce battles and, in theory, should literally never leave an opening, since units respond automatically to a tile being left vacant. Even if the unit hasn't left the province yet, a unit will automatically begin moving to that province to prevent even an hour of vacancy.

See the problem? It sounds like a flawless system because it's intended to do half of the work for you. It doesn't, and serially does absurdist things that leave the lines open. It doesn't matter how long the front is, if there is one troop per province then the AI should automatically know how to respond and act according to its own stated purpose as an order.

I don't really get whatsoever how me micro managing resources is "fighting against the system." It's covering for the system being literally conspiratorial in its efforts to find new and creative ways to sabotage the player, and is the only actual option if you don't use frontlines since no other order exists that does *ANYTHING* automatically.

I've got a thousand hours in HoI4. I'm not new, unfamiliar with fronts, the game, its mechanics, or its bugs. This bug was reported as far back as August of 2016, two months after launch. It's still here. It is still just as bad. It can and will happen to a front a single tile in width and length if you allow it.

I'm not an exception. This happens on fronts that are as small as they come. The AI does not care about length of a front, smaller doesn't make it less likely. It just makes it less likely that the enemy will flood through the gap.

If people didn't micro they would literally be allowing those gaps to get wider and wider as the AI panics and self-destructs due to the mess its made for itself.

The literal only benefit frontline has is that unlike a fallback like, it adapts to a front. Fallback lines are static and don't actually respond to changes. This isn't even terribly inconvenient. But that you have to constantly redraw the line and that units remain static no matter what means that it's not actually viable.

That's literally the problem. This isn't player fault. This isn't new. This isn't based off of front size. It will literally happen to anyone, under any circumstance given, with literally every post about this ending with a player scrambling to try fixing the massive flood and failing to most of the time.

Expecting something to not open the gates to the enemy without a shot being fired isn't a matter of expectations. I expect literally nothing from the AI and yet it still finds ways to disappoint me three years after launch.

It's literally the same thing France does, which is literally leave its borders undefended to allow for itself to be capitulated, except it's an army AI and not a national one.

You seem quite defensive for someone who makes reference to how bad you are at the game in the original post...

Anyway, that aside, maybe using the 'garrison' function would help you, particularly if they're told to focus forts, but that's only speculation. I wish you luck with your front lines for the future, all the same!

Don't really get how I was being defensive but that's not really much different as to me not getting why you're implying that I'm "fighting against the system" but you didn't elaborate then and I don't expect you to do so now either.

[Sin]

Thank you for this post. I was thinking about finally buying into HoI 4 expecting this issue to be fixed - but paradox seems to be unable to fix it or don't care for fixing it so .. Saved money.

[iMajoraGaming]

Originally posted by Also named Bort:

Originally posted by iMajoraGaming:

I have over a thousand hours in HoI4. I micro manage because it prevents casualties and lets me be more specific with what I want units to do.

Also the length of fronts is irrelevant in this case. There are 3 full sized armies defending a front that a single army can cover all but one province of, and frontlines operate off of cooperative fluidity. That one province is then covered by a different army. Then the line automatically uses excess troops to reinforce battles and, in theory, should literally never leave an opening, since units respond automatically to a tile being left vacant. Even if the unit hasn't left the province yet, a unit will automatically begin moving to that province to prevent even an hour of vacancy.

See the problem? It sounds like a flawless system because it's intended to do half of the work for you. It doesn't, and serially does absurdist things that leave the lines open. It doesn't matter how long the front is, if there is one troop per province then the AI should automatically know how to respond and act according to its own stated purpose as an order.

I don't really get whatsoever how me micro managing resources is "fighting against the system." It's covering for the system being literally conspiratorial in its efforts to find new and creative ways to sabotage the player, and is the only actual option if you don't use frontlines since no other order exists that does *ANYTHING* automatically.

I've got a thousand hours in HoI4. I'm not new, unfamiliar with fronts, the game, its mechanics, or its bugs. This bug was reported as far back as August of 2016, two months after launch. It's still here. It is still just as bad. It can and will happen to a front a single tile in width and length if you allow it.

I'm not an exception. This happens on fronts that are as small as they come. The AI does not care about length of a front, smaller doesn't make it less likely. It just makes it less likely that the enemy will flood through the gap.

If people didn't micro they would literally be allowing those gaps to get wider and wider as the AI panics and self-destructs due to the mess its made for itself.

The literal only benefit frontline has is that unlike a fallback like, it adapts to a front. Fallback lines are static and don't actually respond to changes. This isn't even terribly inconvenient. But that you have to constantly redraw the line and that units remain static no matter what means that it's not actually viable.

That's literally the problem. This isn't player fault. This isn't new. This isn't based off of front size. It will literally happen to anyone, under any circumstance given, with literally every post about this ending with a player scrambling to try fixing the massive flood and failing to most of the time.

Expecting something to not open the gates to the enemy without a shot being fired isn't a matter of expectations. I expect literally nothing from the AI and yet it still finds ways to disappoint me three years after launch.

It's literally the same thing France does, which is literally leave its borders undefended to allow for itself to be capitulated, except it's an army AI and not a national one.

You seem quite defensive for someone who makes reference to how bad you are at the game in the original post...

Anyway, that aside, maybe using the 'garrison' function would help you, particularly if they're told to focus forts, but that's only speculation. I wish you luck with your front lines for the future, all the same!

Also me not thinking that I'm particularly good at the game isn't an invitation to be patronized and spoken down to.

Compounding the absurdity of saying I'm defensive is that like, what, two thirds of that post is about the mechanic and how in theory it's the perfect tool when in reality it does things that make no sense under any given context/how it's not specific to me, or this situation and that the bug has been around since launch.

You more or less spoke down to me as if being bad means that I'm legitimately stupid and expecting too much when I don't actually expect anything, because the tool's been broken for 3 years, and yet it still surprises me with the creativity of some of the things it does.

You didn't really offer anything other than an extraordinarily patronizing comment. Being bad does not equate to being stupid, nor is that some kind of even real reason to act like this is a thing specific to me, my micro managing, and my expectations even though there's literally other people in the thread who have had the same issue.

[Senseo1990]

Don't use the frontline mechanic at all, it's broken, everyone knows that. You can use the garrison order for convenience but that's about it.

[Redstar Beteigeuze]

Fix it Paradox!

[The Notorious GSB]

Originally posted by iMajoraGaming:

Originally posted by Also named Bort:

You seem quite defensive for someone who makes reference to how bad you are at the game in the original post...

Anyway, that aside, maybe using the 'garrison' function would help you, particularly if they're told to focus forts, but that's only speculation. I wish you luck with your front lines for the future, all the same!

Also me not thinking that I'm particularly good at the game isn't an invitation to be patronized and spoken down to.

Compounding the absurdity of saying I'm defensive is that like, what, two thirds of that post is about the mechanic and how in theory it's the perfect tool when in reality it does things that make no sense under any given context/how it's not specific to me, or this situation and that the bug has been around since launch.

You more or less spoke down to me as if being bad means that I'm legitimately stupid and expecting too much when I don't actually expect anything, because the tool's been broken for 3 years, and yet it still surprises me with the creativity of some of the things it does.

You didn't really offer anything other than an extraordinarily patronizing comment. Being bad does not equate to being stupid, nor is that some kind of even real reason to act like this is a thing specific to me, my micro managing, and my expectations even though there's literally other people in the thread who have had the same issue.

Apologies, I didn't mean to offend!