Unstoppable naval invasions.

[Fingusa of the East]

So, I do not know what am I doing wrong here but since MtG, I cannot physically stop AI invasions from happening.

It does not matter how many hundreds of planes I have in the air or how many hundreds of ships I have across my entire coast, naval invasions still happen.

I have complete control over those regions, both sea and air, and it seems like AI either ignores those rules (you know, the "you have to have control along the invasion line" rule) or they just somehow teleport their forces there without even entering my protected sea/ocean regions.

Is this a bug, am I doing something wrong or should I just ignore navy entirely and just put that extra workforce into making more divisions and just protect the coast from inside?

[GoldenTalon]

It's still easy to destroy invasions. Just encircle and capture port if AI even bothered to get a port.

[Total Eclipse]

"AI either ignores those rules"

That is the truth, the AI ignores naval invasion rules, just garrison your ports.

[Fingusa of the East]

Originally posted by Küzdj és bízva bízzál:

"AI either ignores those rules"

That is the truth, the AI ignores naval invasion rules, just garrison your ports.

Well heck, cheers. That explains everything.

[MeDaDaddy]

Originally posted by Fingusa of the East:

So, I do not know what am I doing wrong here but since MtG, I cannot physically stop AI invasions from happening.

It does not matter how many hundreds of planes I have in the air or how many hundreds of ships I have across my entire coast, naval invasions still happen.

I have complete control over those regions, both sea and air, and it seems like AI either ignores those rules (you know, the "you have to have control along the invasion line" rule) or they just somehow teleport their forces there without even entering my protected sea/ocean regions.

Is this a bug, am I doing something wrong or should I just ignore navy entirely and just put that extra workforce into making more divisions and just protect the coast from inside?

All you/they need to do is get the superiority for 1 second in order to launch a naval invasion.
For example, tie all the fleets on the appropriate missions down and have a few to support naval invasion. If you have (say) 10 patrol Fleets in 1 sea region then it'd only take 10 single-force subs to potentially tie them up and then 1 sub to support the invasion for the invasion to be viable.

I'd say its just a learning to play issue :)

[Fingusa of the East]

Originally posted by MeDaDaddy:

All you/they need to do is get the superiority for 1 second in order to launch a naval invasion.
For example, tie all the fleets on the appropriate missions down and have a few to support naval invasion. If you have (say) 10 patrol Fleets in 1 sea region then it'd only take 10 single-force subs to potentially tie them up and then 1 sub to support the invasion for the invasion to be viable.

I'd say its just a learning to play issue :)

Cause Paradox AI is gonna be using mostly banned MP tactics.

Its ok I looked it up after Kuzdj mentioned it and yeah, AI just cheats. But good on you to presume that someone with hundreds of hours of playtime has a "learning to play" issue. Very helpful of ya.

[MeDaDaddy]

Originally posted by Fingusa of the East:

Originally posted by MeDaDaddy:

All you/they need to do is get the superiority for 1 second in order to launch a naval invasion.
For example, tie all the fleets on the appropriate missions down and have a few to support naval invasion. If you have (say) 10 patrol Fleets in 1 sea region then it'd only take 10 single-force subs to potentially tie them up and then 1 sub to support the invasion for the invasion to be viable.

I'd say its just a learning to play issue :)

Cause Paradox AI is gonna be using mostly banned MP tactics.

Its ok I looked it up after Kuzdj mentioned it and yeah, AI just cheats. But good on you to presume that someone with hundreds of hours of playtime has a "learning to play" issue. Very helpful of ya.

Hehe ...you are welcome.

Definately a learning to play issue if you only have a few hundred hours AND refuse to heed the advice of someone with 20x that.

Have fun, & continue to be at the game

[MeDaDaddy]

Originally posted by Lost Latios:

Other games: Resources Cheats

HoI4: Rule Cheats

MeDaDaddy.

Maybe be less of an ass and people would listen to you. There's a reason there is a grumpy old man sterotype. Also, no one knows of your many hours because you profile is private.

Fair point .. private 'cos my offspring are on my friends list and I don't want any pervy peeps paedophing* them and was just responding in kind!

I'll bow out but do reckon it's a Task Force management issue (that is, learning to play) rather than a bug.



*EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GpzFgoPDn0

[OXKART]

im ♥♥♥♥ at naval .. good tips thanks..

[flyboymb]

Has to be ignoring the rules. When I play as unaligned Britain, I declare on France and deploy the royal navy against their west coast. Despite having naval bombers, 10 destroyer/light cruiser patrols, 10 submarine groups set to attack transports, and a death fleet set to steam out and blow up anything suspicious, I still get landings on the islands surrounding great Britain and even from across the channel even with all that and Gibralter cut off from French use.

No surface battles aside from maybe a single French sub getting sunk and no loss plane attacks. Both sea zones always green. You can bet though that if I try to do the same thing anywhere near the IJN that a 24 stack army is about to vanish.

I'd also point out that number of hours gives no clout when the vast majority of them were from before a major change to the naval system. Just because something was correct 50,000 hours ago doesn't make it so if Paradox slips in a glitch or AI boost with DLC.

[MeDaDaddy]

Originally posted by flyboymb:

Has to be ignoring the rules. When I play as unaligned Britain, I declare on France and deploy the royal navy against their west coast. Despite having naval bombers, 10 destroyer/light cruiser patrols, 10 submarine groups set to attack transports, and a death fleet set to steam out and blow up anything suspicious, I still get landings on the islands surrounding great Britain and even from across the channel even with all that and Gibralter cut off from French use.

No surface battles aside from maybe a single French sub getting sunk and no loss plane attacks. Both sea zones always green. You can bet though that if I try to do the same thing anywhere near the IJN that a 24 stack army is about to vanish.

I'd also point out that number of hours gives no clout when the vast majority of them were from before a major change to the naval system. Just because something was correct 50,000 hours ago doesn't make it so if Paradox slips in a glitch or AI boost with DLC.

I've not seen it myself*, but tend to ensure I always have fleets active : so set compositions of the task forces; set engagement rules; set repair rules and always have reserves for the forces I have set to repair rather than not, because otherwise your green sea regions can quickly become unsafe when all your ships & boats are headed to repair.

Bowing out again :)

*EDIT: Since MtG, played as USA, UK, SU, Japan, Mexico, France, Germany & China and naval has always played out exactly as expected unless i messed up and forgot to set the compositions/repair and engagement rules.

EDITED EDIT: Upgrade your ship designs and try to have similar speed composition forces.
No use having that 40 knots Destroyer or Light Cruiser teamed up with that pre-war Battleship at 25 knots :)

[andersrlarsen]

Originally posted by MeDaDaddy:

Originally posted by flyboymb:

Has to be ignoring the rules. When I play as unaligned Britain, I declare on France and deploy the royal navy against their west coast. Despite having naval bombers, 10 destroyer/light cruiser patrols, 10 submarine groups set to attack transports, and a death fleet set to steam out and blow up anything suspicious, I still get landings on the islands surrounding great Britain and even from across the channel even with all that and Gibralter cut off from French use.

No surface battles aside from maybe a single French sub getting sunk and no loss plane attacks. Both sea zones always green. You can bet though that if I try to do the same thing anywhere near the IJN that a 24 stack army is about to vanish.

I'd also point out that number of hours gives no clout when the vast majority of them were from before a major change to the naval system. Just because something was correct 50,000 hours ago doesn't make it so if Paradox slips in a glitch or AI boost with DLC.

I've not seen it myself*, but tend to ensure I always have fleets active : so set compositions of the task forces; set engagement rules; set repair rules and always have reserves for the forces I have set to repair rather than not, because otherwise your green sea regions can quickly become unsafe when all your ships & boats are headed to repair.

Bowing out again :)

*EDIT: Since MtG, played as USA, UK, SU, Japan, Mexico, France, Germany & China and naval has always played out exactly as expected unless i messed up and forgot to set the compositions/repair and engagement rules.

EDITED EDIT: Upgrade your ship designs and try to have similar speed composition forces.
No use having that 40 knots Destroyer or Light Cruiser teamed up with that pre-war Battleship at 25 knots :)

alot of people keep bringing up this thing, that the ai cheats and ignore rules.

the fact is that medadaddy is absolutely correct;
it is the player who usually mess up, which result in ships (and entire fleets) being in repair mode --> ai get superiority for a short while. and while small portions of their fleet keep your still operating fleets busy with minor battles, their invasion force can easily invade without involvement from your fleets.

if given orders the right way, fleets will stay operative and prevent this from happening. but most people havent bothered to try understand naval battles, and it is much easier to say that ai cheats instead of admitting that they doesnt know what they are doing....

[flyboymb]

That's all well and good except that I keep my patrol fleets consistong solely of destroyers and light cruisers to ensure maximum speed along with surface detection and have individual repair turned on to allow rapid repair while the rest of the task force still patrols.

I have 7 of these task forces dispersed between all the western sea zones of France. At the very least, France should be incapable of moving an invasion through these zones due to there being insufficient superiority in the sea zone, never mind actually being intercepted.

I've even set Britain's sub forces into 5 task forces set to raid convoys and individually set them to the area around the Isle of Man in case French forces were sneaking through there. I traded almost all of my civilian factories for oil to ensure I had a decent stream of oil.

What happened? The islands north of Scotland were invaded followed by the Isle of Man which had every sub in the British navy patroling around.

But I have a force stationed in Britain that rapidly blocks off and overruns the invaders which are the same size regardless of whether my fleets are at sea or in port while my invading force cuts through France because they keep a large chunk of their arky on the maginot even as they capitulate.

And that's the bottom line; the arguments of the learn to play group requires the HOI4 AI to be a diabolical genius at naval invasion while being totally hamfisted on land.

[Bravo]

I've seen Britain get amphibiously invaded whilst my Atlantic fleet is fully operational in the channel - that's some 100+ warships in dozens of different task forces, vs an Axis with at best half a dozen ships between them. So yeah either the AI is cheating with Amphi or there's a serious flaw with the superiority calculations.

[kenberg]

Nothing that two garrison divisions and one land and sea fort at every navy port cant fix,

Ive been useing this for years and it 99.9999% of the time works fine,

Garrison division of 4 inf / 1 hevy tank / 1 anti tank gun / 1 aa gun / 5 art,
Or 4 inf / 1 anti tank gun / 1 aa gun / 8 art,

You put two garrison divisions like this at every navy port you have and at any allied navy port,

And the ai naval invasions will all just fissile out cold or land next to a port and flat out fail to kick your garrison divisions off the port,

And iv seen the ai land up to 20 divs right next to a port and fail to kick my garrison divisions off the port.

[MeDaDaddy]

Originally posted by flyboymb:

That's all well and good except that I keep my patrol fleets consistong solely of destroyers and light cruisers to ensure maximum speed along with surface detection and have individual repair turned on to allow rapid repair while the rest of the task force still patrols.

I have 7 of these task forces dispersed between all the western sea zones of France. At the very least, France should be incapable of moving an invasion through these zones due to there being insufficient superiority in the sea zone, never mind actually being intercepted.

I've even set Britain's sub forces into 5 task forces set to raid convoys and individually set them to the area around the Isle of Man in case French forces were sneaking through there. I traded almost all of my civilian factories for oil to ensure I had a decent stream of oil.

What happened? The islands north of Scotland were invaded followed by the Isle of Man which had every sub in the British navy patroling around.

But I have a force stationed in Britain that rapidly blocks off and overruns the invaders which are the same size regardless of whether my fleets are at sea or in port while my invading force cuts through France because they keep a large chunk of their arky on the maginot even as they capitulate.

And that's the bottom line; the arguments of the learn to play group requires the HOI4 AI to be a diabolical genius at naval invasion while being totally hamfisted on land.

Screenshots may help here.
Include engagement rules, repair rules & ideal task force composition if you can.
But the fact remains that the AI enemy could tie down all your active task forces and thus get an invasion through since it only needs a split second of naval superiority to launch that invasion, whereas us humans will more than likely miss the opportunity 'cos we're busy elsewhere.

Also bear in mind that having task forces set to engage also means you have to have some on patrol and then the time to locate....

I still stand by my above comments though, and have bowed back in :)