Why does my army just randomly retreat in the middle of winning a defense?

[Nobbonius Knobby]

The only thing I can think of is combat width, but even then I don't see how that explains anything.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1770047583

In this example, I was winning the defense, it had 88 in my favor, with three level forts (one or two levels damaged however) and then randomly, my whole force there retreats. A few of them have little organization left, but there's at least 3 divisions with sufficient manpower, equipment, and organization to keep fighting. I don't understand why they're retreating. (combat width 20 with support engies and arty)

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1770047511

In this example, same thing, I was winning the defense by like, 92 in my favor with level three forts, maybe one or two damaged from bombers, I had one 20 width armored and motorized 10 width with support companies, it isn't an ideal force but I could only do so much with my industry. They barely fought for like a few hours, winning mind you, and they just decide to retreat. Notice all of them have almost full organization and almost 100% supplied with oil to boot.

I haven't in my 400 hours of playing this game come across this issue and I don't understand so maybe one of you stat nuts out there can figure it out for me.

Btw, I have no mods which buff Germany nor did I buff Germany in the options. My tanks and motorized troops had been fighting off hundreds of thousands of german and italian troops for like a whole year on the french/italian border from 1939 to 1940.

I have defense buffs from military staff including +10 divisional defense, +10 infantry defense.

I tried making a front line and seeing if the ai knew something I didn't, they germans broke my line faster when I did that.

[spike2071]

The score isn't always accurate. I would guess the issue is that your troops aren't reinforcing fast enough during the actual battle. As an example. if you have 10 divisions (20 width), only 4 can fight at once assuming the Germans attack from a single province (the width of the actual combat is 80). If those 4 divisions lose their org and retreat before another unit can reinforce, then all 10 divisions will retreat.

I think that's what happened in both screenshots. Your second screenshot has some purple units that are out of org.

Keep an eye on the org of the units that are actually fighting (and not waiting to join in reserve). You can increase the reinforce rate by researching Radio tech, and adding Signal Companies to your divisions (among other things). You can also force a division to retreat early (like your lowest org one) to increase the time for another division to move from reserves to fighting.

I hope all that makes sense. Ask questions if not. :)

[andersrlarsen]

research radio, and add radio support (should also be researched to 1939) to increase reinforce rate.
also add field marshal, and give him reinforce trait and recovery trait.

may i also suggest that you use some political power to increase stability and war support. this will give you more factory output (stability) and up to +10% attack/defence in core territory (war support). should probably also get some more boots on the ground...

[Nobbonius Knobby]

Originally posted by spike2071:

The score isn't always accurate. I would guess the issue is that your troops aren't reinforcing fast enough during the actual battle. As an example. if you have 10 divisions (20 width), only 4 can fight at once assuming the Germans attack from a single province (the width of the actual combat is 80). If those 4 divisions lose their org and retreat before another unit can reinforce, then all 10 divisions will retreat.

I think that's what happened in both screenshots. Your second screenshot has some purple units that are out of org.

Keep an eye on the org of the units that are actually fighting (and not waiting to join in reserve). You can increase the reinforce rate by researching Radio tech, and adding Signal Companies to your divisions (among other things). You can also force a division to retreat early (like your lowest org one) to increase the time for another division to move from reserves to fighting.

I hope all that makes sense. Ask questions if not. :)

Ok that makes a ton of sense actually. Thank you. At this point, I think I’m screwed for time as for getting radios, but I’ll try. I’ve never really tried to understand reinforce rates and I know I have a +8% buff to that via staff but I assume that isn’t enough. Thanks again.

[Nobbonius Knobby]

Originally posted by andersrlarsen:

research radio, and add radio support (should also be researched to 1939) to increase reinforce rate.
also add field marshal, and give him reinforce trait and recovery trait.

may i also suggest that you use some political power to increase stability and war support. this will give you more factory output (stability) and up to +10% attack/defence in core territory (war support). should probably also get some more boots on the ground...

Thanks, I’ll see if I can work radios into my army, but Belgium’s industry is super weak making new units a pain. And I totally forgot to use those decision boosters like an idiot, but thanks for the reminder.

[Rillruin]

Relatively new to the game but sometimes I have a 2nd general either with the same front line or with orders set to fallback line and have the fallback line right on the border. Not sure how the combat works but I would guess it only engages 1 generals troops at a time so the attackers can't advance until after they engage the 2nd generals troops and by the time they beat them the 1st generals troops are ready to defend that territory again.

It may work as a solution until you can research Radios.

[Nobbonius Knobby]

Originally posted by Rillruin:

Relatively new to the game but sometimes I have a 2nd general either with the same front line or with orders set to fallback line and have the fallback line right on the border. Not sure how the combat works but I would guess it only engages 1 generals troops at a time so the attackers can't advance until after they engage the 2nd generals troops and by the time they beat them the 1st generals troops are ready to defend that territory again.

It may work as a solution until you can research Radios.

Thanks for the idea, but it doesn't matter. It really does seem my meager motored army kept the axis at bay in Savoy, because as soon as I pulled out of there to defend Belgium proper, the whole line broke and paris fell from the South. I had a little mini dunkirk and got my whole army to Britain. Already Belgium troops have fought in Greece and Africa and may be deployed to Sweden, which has become a stalemate. I am unable to recoup supplies as none of my allies seem keen on offering a lend lease for much of anything except rifles. I would rely on my African industry, but I have only a full whopping 1 civ factory. Now it's late summer 1941, I'm just waiting for Germany to attack the Soviet Union so that they'll pull divisions away from the West and maybe get pushed back. But if my last 3 playthroughs are anything, the Soviet Union will just get curbed stomped by a stupidly powerful Germany.

[|H|H| Fr3ddi3]

Originally posted by Rillruin:

Relatively new to the game but sometimes I have a 2nd general either with the same front line or with orders set to fallback line and have the fallback line right on the border. Not sure how the combat works but I would guess it only engages 1 generals troops at a time so the attackers can't advance until after they engage the 2nd generals troops and by the time they beat them the 1st generals troops are ready to defend that territory again.

It may work as a solution until you can research Radios.

This is called 'Defence in Depth' and while it works, what you are doing is not quiet that. The second army in this instance does not work the way you intend. They are still being treated as front line troops and may be the ones doing the fighting, they may just be sat in reserve. Eitherway your units are all on the frontline, just under a different order.

To actually do what you suggest, you need to place the fallback line 1 at least tile behind the frontline.

Also as I'm here, you don't want multiple armies covering the same stretch of land if you can help it, all it does is half the XP gain for both Generals. If you have a 14 tile front for example and 2 armies of 24 divisions, give each army 7 tiles to cover each. This means that any one attack on the line will put 3 divisions into combat from the same General. Naturally you can't always stop overlaps and sometimes you just need to throw Something into a fight. But The more stuff fighting for a single General the better their XP gain is and the more likely they are to gain Traits.

[Rillruin]

Originally posted by |H|H| Fr3ddi3:

This is called 'Defence in Depth' and while it works, what you are doing is not quiet that. The second army in this instance does not work the way you intend. They are still being treated as front line troops and may be the ones doing the fighting, they may just be sat in reserve. Eitherway your units are all on the frontline, just under a different order.

To actually do what you suggest, you need to place the fallback line 1 at least tile behind the frontline.

Also as I'm here, you don't want multiple armies covering the same stretch of land if you can help it, all it does is half the XP gain for both Generals. If you have a 14 tile front for example and 2 armies of 24 divisions, give each army 7 tiles to cover each. This means that any one attack on the line will put 3 divisions into combat from the same General. Naturally you can't always stop overlaps and sometimes you just need to throw Something into a fight. But The more stuff fighting for a single General the better their XP gain is and the more likely they are to gain Traits.

I sometimes do a mix. In your example 2 armies covering 7 tiles each along a 14 tile front with a 3rd army typically commanded by a rookie general covering the entire 14 tile line. This gets the rookie general some experience without having to rely on him covering a line on his own. It also allows a lot more troops to funnel to the point of attack. For example, when defending Beijing with the overlapping armies at times their may be 15 divs defending it which makes it pretty much unbeatable since their are 2 generals/48 divisions cycling reinforcements in and out of it. I usually maintain air superiority as well which helps. With 2 generals covering the same tiles I'm also less likely to see times when 1 general will leave an undefended gap in the line which I've seen happen a lot even when a general is defending a short 5 or 6 tile line.

I used to sometimes use the 2nd fall back line as you described just in case the enemy broke through but I've found that unnecessary in most situations.

Experience earned may be lower but both generals are earning xp so it balances out. I may not get an amazing general but I get 2 good ones. Maybe I'll change that strategy at some point.