Trotsky not a better option?

[Roubik]

I am in the middle of 1937 as USSR, trying to choose an effort meanwhile having Trotsky as my target leader.

It struck me that if/when Trotsky comes to power after 1938 without the Great Purge, he completely bypasses the Great Purge as well as the NKVD and SMERSH branches.

Is he worthy of that sacrifice? Especially the NKVD branch which gives this amazing bonus of 50% subversive activities cost which is basically trotsky's strength, as well as a perfectly good branch.

[Mack]

He's not worth it.

It's in there for an ahistorical game.

[billy]

I wouldnt say either option is better , just a change and a bit of fun.

[Roubik]

I will get him later and see what kind of change is that. I might agree with mack that he is there just to offer some kind of variety, but no big deal change. it's a big loss those four efforts so I am kinda hoping to see why, also I want to find out what his national effort is (the one on the left of The Great Purge)

[Roubik]

MAJOR EDIT on this post, check next comment!

Ok so here is what you have with Trotsky:

At first you have the Permanent Revolutionary
-15% Political Power Gain -
+15% Justify War Goal Time -
-30% Subversive Activities Cost +

With the Permanent Revolution Effort his powers improve and he gets: Triumphant Revolutionary
+15% Justify War Goal Time -
-50% Subversive Activities Cost (that's huge) ++
+15% Ideology Drift Defence +

With Trotsky you don't have access to two of the three branches of The Great Purge:
SMERSH ---> Partissan Suppression
NKVD Primacy ---> NKVD Divissions

SMERSH is nothing, Partissan Suppression can be useffull (-20% Effect of Partissans on us)
NKVD Primacy on the other hand is more usefull -50% Subversive Activities Cost++
which leads to NKVD Divissions with +30% Reinforce Rate crazy +++ (if it is true)

Trotsky has only Rehabilitated Military ---> Military Reorganization branch
+2% Reinforce Rate and +10% Division Recovery Rate for the first, which is meh compared to NKVD, and 1 time 50% bonus to speed of land doctrine and just +20 Army XP for the latter.

OVERALL
It is not necesserally a bad option to get Trotsky. BUT in single player no nation in my experience has tried to influence my ideology, so the bonus is irrelevant however in Multiplayer combined with Home of the Revolution it is almost impossible for others to affect you.

If you plan on going Rehabilitated Military anyway Trotsky is the better option, since that -20% enemy partisan activity is not a biggie you can solve partisans by microing a little. He also counts as having already researched NKVD Primacy so basically what you lose by going Trotsky is NKVD Divissions which is a major upgrade and in return you get a mediocre one.

So, you want 30% Reinforcement Rate and -20% enemy partican activity or +2% Reinforcement Rate, +10% Division Recovery Rate, 1x50% bonus to research speed of a land doctrine but with +15% Justify War Goal Time? What is your choice?

Personally I think the Reinforcement Rate is stupid good to pass.

[Surimi]

Trotsky is basically mega-overpowered.

* You CAN get NKVD focus with Trotsky, in fact you can get all branches leading from the purge focus (bypassed means completed, not locked out).
* It stacks with his leadership trait.
* Trotsky gets a better leadership trait when you complete the relevant focus.

So yeah.. -100% subversive activity cost. That means two things.

* Coups are instant and cost no political power, just weapons.
* War fabrication is extremely fast and costs almost nothing (it's about equal to the fascist CB, but doesn't require you to be at war with a major).

Without any of these things Trotsky would still be an interesting option because he bypasses the purge focus (which takes a long time to complete), his counter-purge is pretty okay to deal with and the civil war which triggers when he takes over isn't that bad. The downside would be that you can't rush the 5th research slot and you have less direct less control over what the purge does.

But yeah, nothing can compete with the above. It's truly, truly ludicrous.

[Roubik]

Major EDIT on my previous post that I must make a separate answer. What Deep Hurting said is true. I have confirmed it myself.

With Trotsky you get ALL the branches, bypass simply means something like already researched, not unavailable.

With this new information pick Trotsky if you play USSR go NKVD and make the world BURN with red revolutions. It's ridiculus but this is pure overpower! the best part is, you don't have to sweat at all, only a puny civil war to get amazing bonuses.

[Roubik]

After playing Trotsky-NKVD primacy combo I have to say it is a poor choice. Basically with 100% reduction in time needed to do a coup you don't have enough time to arm the communists in other countries, even if you have 50% communist population with 0 weapons there is no point in doing the coup since it will be crashed in a matter of 1 or 2 weeks. Basically 0 weapons mean almost 1 or 2 divissions for your guys who do the coup.

So if you want Trotsky go Rehab Military if you want that 30% reinforcement rate that NKVD gives, go Stalin. In both cases you will need 100 days to stage the coup which will be enough to arm the people if you have a good stockpile.

[BrigadierBill]

You do lose Zhukov and Konev though :(

[sparkytomas1330]

Trotsky's a waste of time.
The coups don't work as well, it's just a military distraction for a day or so before the army comes back.
You lose Zhukov Konev and much more. Unless you want to waste your time invading minors Stalin is the man to go.

[In the balls]

Trotsky is a good Option in Mexico tho

[gingerboyz4]

Originally posted by sparkytomas1330:

Trotsky's a waste of time.
The coups don't work as well, it's just a military distraction for a day or so before the army comes back.
You lose Zhukov Konev and much more. Unless you want to waste your time invading minors Stalin is the man to go.

necroooooooooooooo