Modmakers give more focus trees than devs

[SirSanity]

Kaisereich alone gives us 50+ new focus trees

Game devs make us pay for 3 new focus trees every 6 months or so.

thats all I have to say.

[zacharyb]

Mod Focus Trees are also imbalanced as ♥♥♥♥. Also Kaiserreich is alternative history, so they have more freedom with the Focuses, most of the Paradox Focuses are based in history, though they are going a bit away from that since people love alternative history.

More doesn't mean better though, Quality > Quantity.

[SirSanity]

Originally posted by zacharyb:

Mod Focus Trees are also imbalanced as ♥♥♥♥. Also Kaiserreich is alternative history, so they have more freedom with the Focuses, most of the Paradox Focuses are based in history, though they are going a bit away from that since people love alternative history.

More doesn't mean better though, Quality > Quantity.

Yeah, I get that.

But, my point was that these devs do put a lot of time towards making these mods, focus trees and everything and they do it for free, with a chance of getting donations. Its just nice that people actually spend their time doing it for us. : ) I love modders.

[zacharyb]

Originally posted by SirSanity:

Originally posted by zacharyb:

Mod Focus Trees are also imbalanced as ♥♥♥♥. Also Kaiserreich is alternative history, so they have more freedom with the Focuses, most of the Paradox Focuses are based in history, though they are going a bit away from that since people love alternative history.

More doesn't mean better though, Quality > Quantity.

Yeah, I get that.

But, my point was that these devs do put a lot of time towards making these mods, focus trees and everything and they do it for free, with a chance of getting donations. Its just nice that people actually spend their time doing it for us. : ) I love modders.

Oh ya modders are great, but they also generally don't have a time limit to do something and aren't required to make their work balanced and flawless, plus some of the mods have a pretty big team of people working on them.

Paradox Development Studios in 2015 only had 80 Employees, don't know the number now, but they work on multiple games at once, those being Crusader Kings 2, Europa Universalis 4, Stellaris, and HOI 4, and possibly unannounced games like Victoria 3. Assuming with a team of 80 that means only 20 working on each game at once, not including any potentially unreleased/unannounced games. I think they also get shuffled around to help with the other games to work on Expansions/DLC, so for all we know there could only be about 10 people on average working on HOI4. I don't know exactly how they run their studio or the exact numbers and such, but I think it's probably safe to say that HOI4 probably has the least amount of people working on it on average compared to the other 3 games.

If you look at it like that, it makes sense why it takes so long for HOI4 to get updates and Expansions/DLC. Maybe Paradox should think about releasing how big the teams are and for each game, that way people can get a better idea on why updates can take so long and why they might not always be that large of updates.

[SirSanity]

Originally posted by zacharyb:

Originally posted by SirSanity:

Yeah, I get that.

But, my point was that these devs do put a lot of time towards making these mods, focus trees and everything and they do it for free, with a chance of getting donations. Its just nice that people actually spend their time doing it for us. : ) I love modders.

Oh ya modders are great, but they also generally don't have a time limit to do something and aren't required to make their work balanced and flawless, plus some of the mods have a pretty big team of people working on them.

Paradox Development Studios in 2015 only had 80 Employees, don't know the number now, but they work on multiple games at once, those being Crusader Kings 2, Europa Universalis 4, Stellaris, and HOI 4, and possibly unannounced games like Victoria 3. Assuming with a team of 80 that means only 20 working on each game at once, not including any potentially unreleased/unannounced games. I think they also get shuffled around to help with the other games to work on Expansions/DLC, so for all we know there could only be about 10 people on average working on HOI4. I don't know exactly how they run their studio or the exact numbers and such, but I think it's probably safe to say that HOI4 probably has the least amount of people working on it on average compared to the other 3 games.

If you look at it like that, it makes sense why it takes so long for HOI4 to get updates and Expansions/DLC. Maybe Paradox should think about releasing how big the teams are and for each game, that way people can get a better idea on why updates can take so long and why they might not always be that large of updates.

Yeah, you make a good point. You're definitely better than me at debates. :P

[Exarch_Alpha]

More isn´t equal to better. I always thought B. ICE was not the best mod for me.

Find the mod that suits you better. Not everyone wants to have 40 types of brigades.

[SirSanity]

Originally posted by Exarch_Alpha:

More isn´t equal to better. I always thought B. ICE was not the best mod for me.

Find the mod that suits you better. Not everyone wants to have 40 types of brigades.

I can't choose between the easy vanilla game or realistic darkest hour mod.

[Ëvïlnïck8 ゴゴゴ]

While Paradox doenst make many focus trees, the ones they do make are of great quality (apart from the vanila major ones witch are not that great)
The ones from DLC are great, plenty of cool and uniqeu focuses.

And with the release of a new Japanese and German focus tree i hope they will at one point remake all the major focus trees (and Poland if possible). Since right now France is the only major nation that through their focus tree can become Facist or Communist. The rest are stuck with the ideologie they started with witch makes a-historical AI very predictable since the AI doesnt choose the ideologie ministers, meaning you will never see an Facist America or Communist Japan withouth player interactions.

[SirSanity]

Originally posted by Ëvïlnïck8:

While Paradox doenst make many focus trees, the ones they do make are of great quality (after the day of release, the vanila major ones are not that great)
The ones from DLC are great, plenty of cool and uniqeu focuses.

And with the release of a new Japanese and German focus tree i hope they will at one point remake all the major focus trees (and Poland if possible). Since right now France is the only major nation that through their focus tree can become Facist or Communist. The rest are stuck with the ideologie they started with witch makes a-historical AI very predictable since the AI doesnt choose the ideologie ministers, meaning you will never see an Facist America or Communist Japan withouth player interactions.

They do make focus trees, once every few months for a couple usd.

[bubbas]

Originally posted by SirSanity:

They do make focus trees, once every few months for a couple usd.

Maybe you should start by getting your facts right . . .

[CealLion]

are you saying a modder cant make a decent balanced focus tree?

[Sylvester Stalin]

Originally posted by 🎄Ëvïlnïck8🎄:

While Paradox doenst make many focus trees, the ones they do make are of great quality (apart from the vanila major ones witch are not that great)
The ones from DLC are great, plenty of cool and uniqeu focuses.

And with the release of a new Japanese and German focus tree i hope they will at one point remake all the major focus trees (and Poland if possible). Since right now France is the only major nation that through their focus tree can become Facist or Communist. The rest are stuck with the ideologie they started with witch makes a-historical AI very predictable since the AI doesnt choose the ideologie ministers, meaning you will never see an Facist America or Communist Japan withouth player interactions.

Most of the "Interesting Nations" can choose if the want to go communist, facist or democratic.

[Aegis270]

Road to 56 focus trees do seem to just be better than their standard counterparts. Far more interesting, and far more option for nations to play as. You can play as Czechoslovakia or Austria and have a reasonable impact on the course of the war in europe, not merely exist as free territory for Germany to gobble.

The focus on minor nations is greatly appreciated for people like me who don't like having to multitask on the grand scale you see with majors like the US and the USSR. Being able to play as a small nation is great for us, and Poland is really the only country like that that gets a unique focus tree. Not to mention how incredibly screwed Poland gets early on, requiring you to really know what you're doing to stand a chance.

The DLCs add a few more, but to be honest they're kinda lame compared to the Road to 56 ones. Like the Czech one. You get to either be a puppet of German, minus the Sudetanland, or you get into a fight you can't possibly win early on in the game. It's just like the base game, really. And why on earth do they need a naval branch when they are entirely landlocked? By the time you reach a port, you've already invested so much in your army that it's not worth the resources to try and cobble together a fleet.

Compared to Road to 56, which not only lets you snub Germany at the Munich Conference, keeping the Sudetenland and remaining independant, but you also get other possibilities like preventing the Anschluss and attempting to assasinate Hitler. Not historical, but the game lets you turn off Historical AI focuses for a reason. If every game played out just like WW2, why would anyone play it?

[p]

Originally posted by zacharyb:

Mod Focus Trees are also imbalanced as ♥♥♥♥. Also Kaiserreich is alternative history, so they have more freedom with the Focuses, most of the Paradox Focuses are based in history, though they are going a bit away from that since people love alternative history.

More doesn't mean better though, Quality > Quantity.

agreed

[Sylvester Stalin]

Originally posted by Aegis270:

Road to 56 focus trees do seem to just be better than their standard counterparts. Far more interesting, and far more option for nations to play as. You can play as Czechoslovakia or Austria and have a reasonable impact on the course of the war in europe, not merely exist as free territory for Germany to gobble.

The focus on minor nations is greatly appreciated for people like me who don't like having to multitask on the grand scale you see with majors like the US and the USSR. Being able to play as a small nation is great for us, and Poland is really the only country like that that gets a unique focus tree. Not to mention how incredibly screwed Poland gets early on, requiring you to really know what you're doing to stand a chance.

The DLCs add a few more, but to be honest they're kinda lame compared to the Road to 56 ones. Like the Czech one. You get to either be a puppet of German, minus the Sudetanland, or you get into a fight you can't possibly win early on in the game. It's just like the base game, really. And why on earth do they need a naval branch when they are entirely landlocked? By the time you reach a port, you've already invested so much in your army that it's not worth the resources to try and cobble together a fleet.

Compared to Road to 56, which not only lets you snub Germany at the Munich Conference, keeping the Sudetenland and remaining independant, but you also get other possibilities like preventing the Anschluss and attempting to assasinate Hitler. Not historical, but the game lets you turn off Historical AI focuses for a reason. If every game played out just like WW2, why would anyone play it?

I also like playing the small countries like South Africa, they start with almost nothing but can have a huge effect on the war if played correctly.
They have a very good focus tree if you ask me and everything there is historically plausible.
I feel like the developers can spend some more time on expanding the small nations focus trees.

[Karsk]

The modders have done way more work than the devs. The devs have been insanely slow with hardly any updates at all since release. Nor do they communicate well with the community. They've been apathetic since before release.

Just look at the major updates at CK2, and EU4, then look at Hoi4.

It's shocking.