Why is Hoi4 so slow to get updates?

[Karsk]

No release date announcement for Tiger. One 'quarter sized' expansion and one major accompanying patch is an absolutely pathetic amount of content for the entire year of 2017.

It'll be pretty bad if this doesn't come out before the end of the year.

What's with the extreme lack of content? Hell it doesn't even need to be completely new either. Most of us would've been happy with a couple major updates to fix the absolutely earth shatteringly stupid AI.

Seems like as usual Paradox is spending all their resources on making DLC to sell instead of constantly working to improve the game.

We shouldn't have to wait like 5+ ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ months between major patches. As bad as EU4 and CK2 have become with the amount of DLC even they put out major patches in between as well as the aforementioned dlc put out WAY faster.

The Dev team for Hoi4 has done nothing since ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ JUNE!

We get two content packs that are barely the size of Third Rome, and only three big fixes since release? WTF. This game needs MORE updates especially fixes but for some insane reason it's getting WAY less attention that EU4 and CK2

There's a great foundation with the potential for this to sell REALLY well if only Paradox would put the time and effort into it. I don't fault anyone on the dev team other than podcat. Idk what he's been doing for almost 6 months but it certainly doesn't seem like he's been fixing the issues with the game hes ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in charge of.

Does anyone remember when Paradox was constantly communicating and releasing patches to their games?

[Rage674]

I wish they could just make the damn AI at least moderately challenging. I literally won my first 3 games, easily as Germany, USSR and UK. Like.. no problem. Select all, draw arrow, attack, win ww2.

Black Ice helps a bit but it's still pretty damn bad.

Chain of command would also be great. Fix the AI, bring back CoC and fleshed out espionage would be nice too.

[Karsk]

As previously stated, I hate having to say these things about Paradox. It's interesting to learn about how going public on the stock exchange has affected the company.

I really don't understand how people will blindly defend abusive business practices. It's definitely taking advantage of the good will that they built starting especially with CK1 and EU3.

If I see a company trating customers badly I'm going to call it out. At release people didn't get a complete game. That was all but explicitly acknowledged by Paradox. Hoi4 was delayed many times and throughout the entire development process the dev team has been almost opaque.

Compared to the past, or even a couple years ago the devs for hoi4 aren't talking to the community at all. They're doing the bare minimum and that's it. Just enough to say they talk to their fans.

In 6 months EU4 got more updates and content than Hoi4 has had for WELL over a year. There's no excuse for that. Again they don't have to work day and night. When I buy a product, especially from a company with (until recently) a good track record I expect it to be finished, and for the dev team to continue supporting it for some time with patches and expansions.

They don't have to come out with patches ridiculously fast, and if you think that asking paradox to work faster than they have been (pathetically slowly) is asking too much you're a blinded fanboy.

Modders have done more to balance and fix the game's issues within weeks of the initial release than the dev team has done in a year. If people who are paid nothing and working in their spare time can be so quick to fix major issues surely it's not too much to ask that the official dev team work 1/2 as fast?

They're not working even 1/2 as fast as the modders, its to the point where they're not doing anything at all.

If you said that Hoi4 would take over 6 months between major updates three years ago you'd have been laughed off the forums. Only once it happened did the white knight brigade leap to their defense.

Updates to AI behavior, chain of command, and maybe better espionage. Those could EASILY have been implemented months ago. So what's the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hold up? Dlc.

In the past paradox would offer up a beta patch with improved ai and maybe even chain of command a week or two before the official release. Now they can't even be bothered to do that let alone make improvements to their game within a reasonable time frame.

None of this would be a big an issue if there was even one other game out there that could compete with Hearts of Iron. There isn't. No competitor exists in any real form. For me Hoi3 was micro hell, and I love micro and having lots of control over complex strategy but a lot of it was really tedious and amounted to busy work, hoi2 is too simple with very outdated graphics and large provinces.

Apart from Hoi there's nothing. No company out there is even attempting to compete with paradox in making a ww2 game of a similar nature. If GSG ww2 games exist they are either turn based, vastly simplified, or overly complex to the point of inducing insanity if you try to learn them. I'm looking at you WORLD IN FLAMES. Gary Grigsby's titles are focused on smaller scales and much more complex as well as being hex based.

If there was an alternative then this ♥♥♥♥♥♥ excuse for supporting hoi4 wouldn't be so notable. Nor would it stand out if they didn't have such a good track record in the past.


All that being said I am interested to know what people think of the current state of the game? We'll be stuck with this current state for quite some time anyway.

[Karsk]

Stonecrusher III původně napsal:

KoA Blue Knight™ původně napsal:

Every paradox game was released in full and had all the content that wanted, they are now littereally making NEW content, that they have to code into the game

I don't know what you mean't by "content that wanted" not trying to be rude, must be a typo. But I'm not attacking Paradox directly. Paradox is just taking advantage of the trend in the industry which does lead to bad practices that hopefully Paradox doesn't slip into unlike some other studios. And we are enableing it by rewarding the people that sell half baked products by buying them. They are going a little crazy with DLCs with EU4 which worries me about what will happen to Hoi4. My point is, if you are against microtransactions and DLCs the most effective way to infuence the Devs is your wallet. That is why I won't buy Civ 6, and I own every Civ except for Civ 1 and Beyond Earth. They had 2 or 3 day 1 DLCs and that is abusing the trend, that is what I hope Paradox doesn't do. Also I think the fact that people try to defend them by saying it is a small studio then say that they need extra money when they are making millions is countering themselves.

Paradox is not a small studio anymore. They're only small in comparison to the biggest firms out there.

In comparison to the vast and overwhelming majority of game devs and even many publishers they're a large company now.

They're firmly at the top of the middle in terms of their market share and are poised to leap into the big leagues with the IP's they've acquired to publish.

Point is that paradox is not some mom and pop upstart anymore. They're a VERY large company with a lot of revenue. They ABSOLUTELY have the money and manpower to support hoi4 with a major patch (sans new content) every 2-3 months. It would be simple and the company would still make lots of money. That's how it used to be, a major patch every 2-3 months and an expansion twice a year.

Not sure why Hoi4 got shafted in that regard especially given that it's the newest of their flagship series of strategy titles they both develop and publish.

That's the part that makes no sense to me, if this is the newest one out of their top 3 franchises why ignore it?

[bubbas]

Dedmosh původně napsal:

Not sure why Hoi4 got shafted in that regard especially given that it's the newest of their flagship series of strategy titles they both develop and publish.

That's the part that makes no sense to me, if this is the newest one out of their top 3 franchises why ignore it?

My guess would be that HOI still is a niche game compared to say a more generic 4X space game like Stellaris.

[coffeemm8]

bubbas původně napsal:

Dedmosh původně napsal:

Not sure why Hoi4 got shafted in that regard especially given that it's the newest of their flagship series of strategy titles they both develop and publish.

That's the part that makes no sense to me, if this is the newest one out of their top 3 franchises why ignore it?

My guess would be that HOI still is a niche game compared to say a more generic 4X space game like Stellaris.

So is EUIV though and that gets updates more often than HOI.

[Raine]

I would love turn based hoi4.

[Montecalm]

Sprays the air with fanboy repellant..

[The Doctor]

Just after receiving an expansion, it looks like EU4 is going to receive another themed content patch before Xmas. That game is really getting some serious loving.

HOI4 is probably not getting the same developmental attention as EU4 at the least. But instead of ascribing this lack of development to developer incompetence or indifference, it's maybe sales of HOI4 are just not sufficient to fund the same level of development as these other titles.

[[RED] Dvornik]

Sorry for offtop. Everybody please vote for the "Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war" award. Together we can help our beloved game win the prize.

[Raine]

The Doctor původně napsal:

Just after receiving an expansion, it looks like EU4 is going to receive another themed content patch before Xmas. That game is really getting some serious loving.

HOI4 is probably not getting the same developmental attention as EU4 at the least. But instead of ascribing this lack of development to developer incompetence or indifference, it's maybe sales of HOI4 are just not sufficient to fund the same level of development as these other titles.

This could very well be the case.

[Karsk]

The Doctor původně napsal:

Just after receiving an expansion, it looks like EU4 is going to receive another themed content patch before Xmas. That game is really getting some serious loving.

HOI4 is probably not getting the same developmental attention as EU4 at the least. But instead of ascribing this lack of development to developer incompetence or indifference, it's maybe sales of HOI4 are just not sufficient to fund the same level of development as these other titles.

That's an interesting point. I'm more interested in discussing and trying to get to the bottom of this issue than simply ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ at this point.

What's confusing is that regardless of sales unless a game is a complete bomb it usually is given a lot of attention and the lion's share of resources within at least the first 6 months.

This is almost like they had planned to be very slow updating Hoi4. I see no reason why Tiger or at least the Cornflakes (dumb name xD) update can't be out by Xmas.

Sales figures obviously are closely guarded as far as exact numbers go but I have seen nothing indicating that Hoi4 was a massive failure.

Such neglect is very out of character for Paradox imho is the point I'm trying to make. Wouldn't the decision to slack off on updates be taken after that first few months when enough time has passed to collate the data?

That's why the first few months usually has the strongest support. The main concern of the dev team here seems to have been to stamp out bugs so egregious that they dramatically hurt sales. Once those bugs were ironed out then.....there was this VERY lackadaisical pace. A really obtuse way of talking to the community when they bothered to do so at all.

All of this makes me think there might be something else to Hoi4, or its a combination of several factors.

Hoi3 developed a very passionate and not inconsiderable fanbase as well as the increased market share of the company as a whole. EU4 is definitely much more obscure in terms of recognizability by dint of the history the games cover. Any WW2 game will be more recognizable than one like EU4.

CK2 gets updates almost as much as EU4 to boot. It just seems like the devs are doing the complete opposite of what is normally the case with a newly released game.

There seems to be no drive, no passion to improve the experience for players and to make the game better. Of course there are exceptions within the dev team that's merely a generalization of the dev team and company as a whole.

[4 Sale]

I was coming here to defend them but after seeing this

2013-08-13 - Europa Universalis IV released
2013-09-24 - Patch 1.2 released
2013-10-29 - Patch 1.3 released
2014-01-14 - Patch 1.4 released (alongside Conquest of Paradise)
2014-02-19 - Patch 1.5 released
2014-05-29 - Patch 1.6 released (alongside Wealth of Nations)
2014-07-16 - Patch 1.7 released (alongside Res Publica)
2014-10-30 - Patch 1.8 released (alongside Art of War)
2014-12-09 - Patch 1.9 released
2015-02-26 - Patch 1.10 released (alongside El Dorado)

2012-02-14 - Crusader Kings II released
2012-02-17 - Patch 1.03 released
2012-03-05 - Patch 1.04 released
2012-04-16 - Patch 1.05 released
2012-06-26 - Patch 1.06 released (alongside Sword of Islam)
2012-10-16 - Patch 1.07 released (alongside Legacy of Rome)
2012-11-15 - Patch 1.08 released (alongside Sunset Invasion)
2013-01-15 - Patch 1.09 released (alongside The Republic)
2013-05-28 - Patch 1.10 released (alongside The Old Gods)
2013-08-13 - Patch 1.11 released

2016-05-09 - Stellaris released
2016-06-01 - Patch 1.1 released
2016-06-27 - Patch 1.2 released
2016-10-20 - Patch 1.3 released (alongside Leviathans)
2016-12-05 - Patch 1.4 released
2017-04-06 - Patch 1.5 released (alongside Utopia)
2017-05-09 - Patch 1.6 released
2017-06-28 - Multiplayer patch released (as Beta patch)
2017-09-21 - Patch 1.8 released (alongside Synthetic Dawn)
2017-10-25 - Patch 1.8.3 released

2016-06-06 - Hearts of Iron IV released
2016-06-30 - Patch 1.1 released
2016-09-16 - Patch 1.2 released
2016-12-15 - Patch 1.3 released (alongside Together for Victory)
2017-06-14 - Patch 1.4 released (alongside Death or Dishonor)
2017-08-21 - Patch 1.4.2 released
2018-01-??? - Patch 1.5 released (alongside Waking the Tiger)

I really can't.

[Jenki]

KoA Blue Knight™ původně napsal:

Dedmosh původně napsal:

Stop being so defensive and company worshipping. If you read my post instead of the title you'd see that I'm not saying they should be working themselves to death.

It's easy to take someone's argument to the extreme when they clearly are not in order to make them look bad.

I said there should be more updates. I.e. patches to fix existing issues and give general quality of life improvements. I'd have been happy with just one major patch in 5 months.

But if you think that being spoilt means asking for one patch in 5 months, not new content or an expansion just improvements to the base game and tweaks, then you've got some serious issues.

As I've said smaller companies have been able to pit out way more than just one dlc that isn't even a full sized expansion a year and done so consistently.

Youre like one of those people who defends Star Citizen even when there's reasonable criticism leveled at it.

News flash: there's a difference between what I'm saying which is that they clearly have abandoned live support in favor of making more dlc, and demanding they work day and night to keep me entertained.

You can criticize a company aND its general apathetic nature without advocating for them going to the other extreme and doing back breaking nonstop work.

No i read your post, but no other comments you seem to need to post alot to get your point across which is strange

but you saying u rather just patches to the game without much extra conetent just a more even and patched game, alright dude, but who is gonna pay for that? so they just make patches constant patches to fix the game without releasing alot of DLC but then who is gonna pay the HOI team ?

You want to be a good person and just critise without being a ♥♥♥♥ and i get that, but they have put alot more thought into what they need to do than u have trust me.

they need to make DLC to stay afloat, DLC= profit just releasing patches =no profit

Game is 40 dolars and some developers that make games that cost 10 dolars and still earn more and constently update fir paradox dishing 300 dolar worth dlcs for 1 game is not to make money becose they have no profit is generaly greed

[Blue Knight™]

Pankreas původně napsal:

KoA Blue Knight™ původně napsal:

No i read your post, but no other comments you seem to need to post alot to get your point across which is strange

but you saying u rather just patches to the game without much extra conetent just a more even and patched game, alright dude, but who is gonna pay for that? so they just make patches constant patches to fix the game without releasing alot of DLC but then who is gonna pay the HOI team ?

You want to be a good person and just critise without being a ♥♥♥♥ and i get that, but they have put alot more thought into what they need to do than u have trust me.

they need to make DLC to stay afloat, DLC= profit just releasing patches =no profit

Game is 40 dolars and some developers that make games that cost 10 dolars and still earn more and constently update fir paradox dishing 300 dolar worth dlcs for 1 game is not to make money becose they have no profit is generaly greed

Indie game Devs team (2)
Paradox Team 200+Temps,+buildings+other cleaning staff+they are a publisher+they throw their own cons+marketing etc, it cost money to run a company

[4 Sale]

Latios původně napsal:

How does a DLC free patch not count...? It still fixes bugs and updates the game... You're basicly claiming anything that was launched beside a DLC is bogus. If that's the case the whole game dosen't exist, it was released with DLCs.

Compared to other games made by paradox it's slower, more inconsistent, and has lower quality and lower content.