When would you puppet over annex?

[Gunn]

Just curious when one would opt to puppet over just annexing and taking their land? I don't think I've ever chose to puppet someone in a peace conference.

[Jiffypop]

Originally posted by GunnDawg:

Just curious when one would opt to puppet over just annexing and taking their land? I don't think I've ever chose to puppet someone in a peace conference.

well for starters it's pretty adorable to have germany in just memel. Secondly they can help with a front sometimes automatically. But the best use is that they get all of the manpower from their cored states and you can train troops with their man power. but more often than not you dont want to puppet. Puppeting a country that another country can go to war with will drag you into the war. The country has ♥♥♥♥ troops, The country can gain atonomy and run off. The only time I would recomend puppeting is for land not connected to your homeland. Say im germany, and I kill america. I can puppet america and they defend themselves and I can deploy their troops on their land

[blodsub]

you can milk them for troops.

[glythe]

Puppets are better than annex for the MP. They lso save you micromanagement in an area you dont want troops.

[Mister Smiley]

I puppet countries then let them control colonies. I keep everything in Europe for myself though...

My tummy got the rumblies and only european land could satisfy.

[Space Monk]

It depends on which country I'm playing as. I roleplay the decisions my country would have made historically with regards to puppeting v annexing.

[bunny32794]

Originally posted by GunnDawg:

Just curious when one would opt to puppet over just annexing and taking their land? I don't think I've ever chose to puppet someone in a peace conference.

Well, to understand why it's better to puppet over annex, let's look at the basic draws of both:

Annex:
* Full access to resources
* Full accesss to factories, bases, basically everything in that territory

Puppet:
* Generates less World Tension
* Manpower
* Gain permanent war ally

Let's look at it in terms of how the advantages compare to each other:

Firstly, the World Tension effects of puppeting can be ignored as an advantage, because the way I see it the WT in puppeting vs. annexing is somewhat of a false choice; any difference is far than negated by the fact that you started a war in the first place.

Annexing gives you full access to resources and factories, but it's not like puppets flat-out deny you those things; depending on puppet level they are obligated to give a certain percentage of their factories to your uses, and trade resources as ridiculously discounted rates (ever wanted to buy 40 resources for 1 factory when the normal rate is 8 per factory?)

Militarily speaking, puppets function as a permanent ally with their own military. You also have total control; if you want all the glory for yourself you can just simply not call them to war, and if you think the AI sucks then you can go to the diplomacy screen, select "Request Forces", and set the slider all the way to all their divisions, effectively making you play as their military as well as your own.

Their air and naval forces will be out of your control, but at least those A. don't require that much precision management anyway and B. generally don't screw up your own forces (I've ha offensives ruined because of friendly divisions taking up too much supply space, but my ports always function fine).

However, the most important feature of puppets, and why I always puppet, is because you can recruit divisions for yourself using their manpower (depening on autonomy level). SImply open up the crown icon in the disision tempalte list, choose and duplicate a foreign division and then edit it to your own ends. The end result is a "colonial division" that uses less than half of the normal manpower required (i.e. if the manpower requirement by a puppet is 70% it means that if you want to make a "colonial division" with 10k manpower 7k will be from the puppet and 3k from you).

This manpower aspect alone is extremely important given manpower's rehaul. In HOI3 manpower was the same regardless of original ownership, with citizens ready to join up and turn out in the same numbers for a country that just conquere them a month ago as the one they had lived under their entire life. This made snowballing a problem since you really couln't be ground down in any meaningful sense.

Here it's far more realistic. While you do get some manpower from annexed territory it is negligible (a 98% base negative modifier), at the end of the day it turns out the only people who will sign up (or accept being drafted into) the German army are actual German citizens.

That being said, I generally annex when I just want resources and don't need a manpower cow to milk.

[Gareaap]

depends on what nation you are playing. if its a nation with almost no manpower puppet them so you can steal their troops. if you are playing nations with more natural manpower steal the land for yourself so you have more factories and resources to make better tanks ,etc.

Also the most important part Bigger name on the map is always better.

[Tex]

Originally posted by Mister Smiley:

I puppet countries then let them control colonies. I keep everything in Europe for myself though...

My tummy got the rumblies and only european land could satisfy.

CARRRRRRLLLLLLLLLL!

[killerbill0787]

I puppet China as Japan and give them supplies and use their divisions to fill my army.

[Mister Smiley]

Originally posted by Tacos!:

Originally posted by Mister Smiley:

I puppet countries then let them control colonies. I keep everything in Europe for myself though...

My tummy got the rumblies and only european land could satisfy.

CARRRRRRLLLLLLLLLL!

Well I was hungry and well y'know when you crave European land.

[Allah Jackson]

Puppets are good for manpower, if you're desperate for troops puppets make good bullet sponges for you. Also communist nations get discounts on puppeting compared to annexing. With puppeting you don't have to worry about resistance, but breaking away is a problem, only if they're influenced by another ideology. With annexing resistance becomes a problem, MP is recommended for that.

[Cheryl]

Well it's only partially realistic.....

Yes generally speaking Germans would join the German army however Germany had MANY volunteers from many many countries all helping to fight.

Here is a list of nationalities of people who fought for Germany in WW2.

Albania
Australia
Belgium
Bulgaria
Czech lands (Bohemia and Moravia)
China
Croatia/Bosnia
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France
Hungary
India
Italy
Latvia
Netherlands
Norway
Romania
Spain
Soviet Union
Sweden
Switzerland
Ukraine
United Kingdom

As you can see lot of people who signed up to help Germany unfortunately its not possible to discuss more details on why they wanted to fight for Germany as they say the worst part about censorship is ____________ ok.

[Mikey]

I use puppets if they are strategically placed. You can use them to block off an area so the enemy can't advance through it (unless you call them into the war) or if its too dificult for me to defend (Indonesia... I hate Indonesia....)

Usually you will want to get all the resource producing provinces under your control. Don't bother with going after the highly industrialised areas as you will get 25% of a puppets civilian factories and 75% of an integrated puppets mil facs without the need to keep them safe from pesky bombers.

If you don't have all that much manpower it can be a good idea to puppet a larger neighbour so you can use their manpower instead. Note a puppet still has you forking up 40% of the manpower whilst an integrated only uses 10%.

[Mikey]

Originally posted by Cheryl:

Well it's only partially realistic.....

Yes generally speaking Germans would join the German army however Germany had MANY volunteers from many many countries all helping to fight.

Here is a list of nationalities of people who fought for Germany in WW2.

Albania
Australia
Belgium
Bulgaria
Czech lands (Bohemia and Moravia)
China
Croatia/Bosnia
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France
Hungary
India
Italy
Latvia
Netherlands
Norway
Romania
Spain
Soviet Union
Sweden
Switzerland
Ukraine
United Kingdom

As you can see lot of people who signed up to help Germany unfortunately its not possible to discuss more details on why they wanted to fight for Germany as they say the worst part about censorship is ____________ ok.

Any particular reason why you left out the US?

[Cheryl]

Originally posted by Mikey:

Originally posted by Cheryl:

Well it's only partially realistic.....

Yes generally speaking Germans would join the German army however Germany had MANY volunteers from many many countries all helping to fight.

Here is a list of nationalities of people who fought for Germany in WW2.

Albania
Australia
Belgium
Bulgaria
Czech lands (Bohemia and Moravia)
China
Croatia/Bosnia
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France
Hungary
India
Italy
Latvia
Netherlands
Norway
Romania
Spain
Soviet Union
Sweden
Switzerland
Ukraine
United Kingdom

As you can see lot of people who signed up to help Germany unfortunately its not possible to discuss more details on why they wanted to fight for Germany as they say the worst part about censorship is ____________ ok.

Any particular reason why you left out the US?

It's easy to forget at a moments notice there are several missing ones but you get the point there was a ton of people who wanted to help.