Happy about the upcoming DLC, because it's not for me.

[Rejected Spavvn]

Have you ever thought about what would happen if the majority always had its way every single time in every single situation? "But it's the majority! When the majority gets what it wants everything is good!" ...would probably sum up how a lot of people react to that question.

Well I don't think that way.

Allow me to shock you so badly you'll possibly need an ambulance: gamers are not identical. Your playstyle is not the same as that of everyone else. The way you like to do things in a game is not the same as everyone else.

So how can a game make a large group of players happy if they don't play the game exactly the same way? Not very complicated: provide more than a single way to enjoy the game. However this has fallen to the wayside for several DLCs in a row now. The biggest group of X4 players prefers the sandbox experience to get the most attention, so that's all we ever saw as a big focus even when various new stories were introduced. What about the smaller groups that may want different things? What about the ones that would like to be able to break up the regular "long term" pattern and play a short story every once in a while? What about the ones who are new to the Xgames but want to submerge themselves in the deep history of the universe a little bit further, without sacrificing the wonderful visuals of the latest game to boot up some ancient pixelated relic? They've been left hanging for half a decade, yet I see this discussion board full of selfish pricks whining that they don't get yet another DLC specifically tailored to suit their personal play styles.

There is a bare minimum percentage of target players required to justify making something as time consuming and expensive as a DLC, but the number isn't 50% and I'm one of the seemingly appallingly few players capable of being happy for the smaller but still very significant chunk of players who will finally get a DLC tailored just for them.

Gonna buy Timelines at full price without any hesitation despite having close to no interest in it myself, in my mind Egosoft is doing something really good by not letting the majority decide every single thing every damn time. The game is about player freedom, not about everyone being forced to play exactly the same way.

[SinisterSlay]

I'll buy it just to pay for the free updates to the sandbox we keep getting.

[det2048]

Originally posted by Rejected Spavvn:

Have you ever thought about what would happen if the majority always had its way every single time in every single situation? "But it's the majority! When the majority gets what it wants everything is good!" ...would probably sum up how a lot of people react to that question.

Well I don't think that way.

Yes I partially agree with you. Sure good game design should keep even the minority happy.
However it made me think in a slightly different related issue, usually the majority is right on the best course but not always. Sometimes what people want and won't always make them happy. I feel no matter what your play style I can sum it down to one simple fact that affects all players of every game.

Every player wants to win
Once the win is obtained the game is "complete"
Once a game is complete a player will get bored and abandon the game (if there is nothing left to win at (this is why random maps are important))

Now lets take it down further in detail as the above is kinda obvious.

Majority of players tend to want game changes that make the game more easier
Such that the game its to a point where player will win faster, then get bored faster.

I can site endless game titles that went down this path and failed.
Take one World of Warcraft..
There were a lot of complaints of elite mobs killing players too easily and no win scenarios.
Long story short, Blizzard made it easier. Then players complained about how unfair and unbalanced the classes were. So blizzard made the characters more homogeneous.
A decade later players realized how fun the old game was. It got so popular devs (including myself) made private servers for players to play the old difficult style on it. This was called "Classic".

Same goes with Hardcore (permanent death). The harder the challenge the more engaged the player is to win. However sometimes too hard can discourage a player, there should be some balance to the difficulty of a game.

Now back to the original discussion (I actually have a point). It can be said majority isn't always right! What majority of players want and what majority players find is fun isn't always the same. However I feel the X series players here are smarter on average and tend to get this, I personally see the majority here tends to be pretty much on track, but the OP makes some good points to remember to diversify the product for everyone.

[Gwizzz]

Originally posted by det2048:

Originally posted by Rejected Spavvn:

Have you ever thought about what would happen if the majority always had its way every single time in every single situation? "But it's the majority! When the majority gets what it wants everything is good!" ...would probably sum up how a lot of people react to that question.

Well I don't think that way.

Yes I partially agree with you. Sure good game design should keep even the minority happy.
However it made me think in a slightly different related issue, usually the majority is right on the best course but not always. Sometimes what people want and won't always make them happy. I feel no matter what your play style I can sum it down to one simple fact that affects all players of every game.

Every player wants to win
Once the win is obtained the game is "complete"
Once a game is complete a player will get bored and abandon the game (if there is nothing left to win at (this is why random maps are important))

Now lets take it down further in detail as the above is kinda obvious.

Majority of players tend to want game changes that make the game more easier
Such that the game its to a point where player will win faster, then get bored faster.

I can site endless game titles that went down this path and failed.
Take one World of Warcraft..
There were a lot of complaints of elite mobs killing players too easily and no win scenarios.
Long story short, Blizzard made it easier. Then players complained about how unfair and unbalanced the classes were. So blizzard made the characters more homogeneous.
A decade later players realized how fun the old game was. It got so popular devs (including myself) made private servers for players to play the old difficult style on it. This was called "Classic".

Same goes with Hardcore (permanent death). The harder the challenge the more engaged the player is to win. However sometimes too hard can discourage a player, there should be some balance to the difficulty of a game.

Now back to the original discussion (I actually have a point). It can be said majority isn't always right! What majority of players want and what majority players find is fun isn't always the same. However I feel the X series players here are smarter on average and tend to get this, I personally see the majority here tends to be pretty much on track, but the OP makes some good points to remember to diversify the product for everyone.

The X verse has always followed a pretty common formula: Space flight, exploration, trade, building and combat. There have been over arcing story lines with every release but the core elements have basically remained the same. X4 is no different. Each DLC start provided the player with an opportunity to play out a smaller story arc, but the sandbox experience to do whatever you want, was always there. X4 saw many improvements over previous iterations including a better point and click map (which I created a mod for in X3), better station building, better ship construction using surface elements, better meshes, better graphics, a better economy, and arguably improved AI.

I've enjoyed every DLC so far but am honestly hesitant about the new timelines DLC. I don't see how that will add anything to my current game. So I guess this DLC will cater to the folks the OP was talking about; those that might like a quick adventure instead of a drawn out sandbox experience.

PS, in reference to dumbing down games. when Blizzard nerfed the complex skill trees and implemented a simple chose one of three options per skill up, I chose to leave the game after ~7 years of playing. I understand that combat overhaul was one of the reasons WoW went from 11M subs to 5 or 6. Whoever implemented that fiasco should have been fired.

[det2048]

Originally posted by Gwizzz:

I've enjoyed every DLC so far but am honestly hesitant about the new timelines DLC. I don't see how that will add anything to my current game. So I guess this DLC will cater to the folks the OP was talking about; those that might like a quick adventure instead of a drawn out sandbox experience.

I'm new to x4 and I love it, I'm also hesitant on this DLC. It was a mistake to appease a group of people who play a different genera of games. I do all the space conquest games back to the 80's.

Originally posted by Gwizzz:

PS, in reference to dumbing down games. when Blizzard nerfed the complex skill trees and implemented a simple chose one of three options per skill up, I chose to leave the game after ~7 years of playing. I understand that combat overhaul was one of the reasons WoW went from 11M subs to 5 or 6. Whoever implemented that fiasco should have been fired.

I did the exact same thing, I left around the 6-7 year mark. 100% agree fire those involved. With my corporate experience, I find often only people that get fired are ones that criticize decisions made above them. And the people who have no talent get promoted as their only talent is pointing fingers below them and kissing up.

[Weitsicht]

iam playing games for more than 30 years now and if i learned something then it is that the more players are involved in developement of games the worse the games are

just as an example : look at the workshop .... if egosoft would balance for the majority of subbed mods we would have unlimited money, op ships, lots of endgame stuff for free and "auto everything"

[Gibbo]

I think I need to play before I judge it. I must admit the scenarios sound a bit like a tutorial for new players, but it does say it will delight us long-term players as well. The new story sounds pretty cool. The new unlocks sound really cool. I'm thinking Hyperion may be making a comeback lol.

[blackphoenixx]

"I want something i know most people won't enjoy and you're all selfish pricks for disagreeing". You don't even notice the hypocrisy, do you?

Have you tried not playing the niche sandbox game if you're not interested in sandbox content? Just a thought. It's not like there's a shortage of story-focused games.

And it's not that most of us mind a good story, it's just that we know Egosoft is terrible at telling them.

[Gibbo]

Meh I thought the Paranid story was ok. I do like the Paranid arrogance lol. As long as there is no more mazes I'll be happy lol.

[blackphoenixx]

Originally posted by Gibbo:

Meh I thought the Paranid story was ok. I do like the Paranid arrogance lol. As long as there is no more mazes I'll be happy lol.

The Boron storyline was merely mediocre instead of actively painful to sit through, so there's been improvement at least. But not enough to make me excited for a story-focused DLC.

[Gibbo]

Originally posted by blackphoenixx:

Originally posted by Gibbo:

Meh I thought the Paranid story was ok. I do like the Paranid arrogance lol. As long as there is no more mazes I'll be happy lol.

The Boron storyline was merely mediocre instead of actively painful to sit through, so there's been improvement at least. But not enough to make me excited for a story-focused DLC.

Oh I do agree stories is not their strong point. Probably a language barrier? I mean when you do the Yaki plot that women says "I'm not asking you to betray earth" or words to that effect and that's exactly what she is asking you to do and she even admits it straight after she said it. That kills a story right there. It's just annoying to read and hear things like that because it's silly.

[david.hardie]

DLC is optional. If you do not want it do not buy it.

[powergfx]

Originally posted by SinisterSlay:

I'll buy it just to pay for the free updates to the sandbox we keep getting.

This and the fact that Egosoft is one of the rare players in the gaming industry, who provides a damn well working native Linux version.

[Bozz 💀]

I feel like the Boron story was really cool, the Terran plot is kinda short and has the best rewards and is also well written until you get to the Yaki part that is just silly... I mean they welcome a stranger on their hidden station, let him leave... ask him to help destroy earth.. It's just silly lol

I don't think Egosoft has ever been good at making plots even though they are a few I enjoy in x4... It's just that I would rather see them expand on what they do best, Single player Sandbox experiance...

So I'm really not waiting for the next DLC to release like it was the case for all the others, I don't think I'll buy it either on release because they are many good games that will come out like Homeworld 3 and Dragon's Dogma 2, I'll definitely get it later to support the company.

[Yow!]

Originally posted by Weitsicht:

iam playing games for more than 30 years now and if i learned something then it is that the more players are involved in developement of games the worse the games are

just as an example : look at the workshop .... if egosoft would balance for the majority of subbed mods we would have unlimited money, op ships, lost of endgame stuff for free and "auto everything"

Because it seems most gamers can't stop looking at the game through a single point of view, which is their subjective understanding of what is the game, clearly ignoring the subjectivity of everybody else, developers, stakeholders and other gamers, also ignoring or misunderstanding the objectivity of the whole.

[det2048]

Originally posted by david.hardie:

DLC is optional. If you do not want it do not buy it.

Good to know, but some of us want to buy something that enhances what we already love about the game..
I would love to pay for any of these features:
1. Completed ships internals, rooms with purpose
2. Being able to board with the marines
3. Improved AI (can disable for better performance)
4. Any improvements on trade, ship customization, battle, research, ship pathfinding, terraforming mechanics