Ware Basket trader bug

[aldin]

I have a complex buying Weapon Components and another producing it right next to each other. If the producing complex is short on plasma conductors( stock 2 but buy order for 1 - is being produced there ) the Manager will prioritise traders to buy plasma conductors above all else even if there's no buy order .
If I also deselect in the default behaviour ware basket everything but weapon components and even while the station has no buy orders for plasma conductors the traders will STOP and do Nothing.

My assumption was that Manager will set trade orders based on two things :
- if there is AN ACTUAL BUY ORDER on the station for stock ( Order capacity > Current Stock)
- if the ware is selected in the Ware Basket for that specific trader.

What happens is Manager will freak out that there are no plasma conductors ( I checked this with stock 2 and buy up to 1 ) and send all freighters to buy this ware without checking that the station stock buy order or the ware basket of the traders and bring a stop to trading.

[Wraith]

If the plasma is Untick then just give it a few minute

Sometime it take a bit for the trader to get the new list without plasma

[aldin]

I used SETA and waited a while, didn't work. Complex was using slightly more than producing.
I brought a trader and filled all the stock for plasma conductors and after a minute or so the traders started again selling weapon components.

I think it is a flaw in the prioritisation logic, can be reproduced quite easily.

[Wraith]

I don’t think it is because mine still working pass the prioritization

I have traders ignoring my player HQ refine metal needs for terraforming

[aldin]

This forum is so lame trying to post screenshots.
I don't understand how what you described is relevant in any way.

1. I removed the plasma conductors and paused production, complex has wep comp in store that it can sell to other of my factories.
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198267902246/screenshot/2508025277171901024/
2. I assigned a trader and removed all wares but wep components https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198267902246/screenshot/2508025277171902978/

Result : Trader is spinning for past 30mins with SETA on and sits idle/cannot find any orders.
If I fill in the Plasma Conductors need the trader resumes sell orders for Wep Comp in under a minute.

[Venerable_Sin]

If you're looking for a solution to the managers priority ware mechanic then there are two methods that I'm aware of so that "the player is the boss of the station manager"

Option 1: You can create a trade rule which prohibits player's assets from trading & apply that trade rule to problematic wares on the logical station overview. Station manager will continue to post trade offers for the wares (so NPC traders can supply them) but will not send any of their own ships to fetch the stuff. (I have not verified this method because it bottlenecks the station managers total trade capacity and is not a "dynamic enough" solution for one station needing every ware)

Option 2: You can adjust the stations automatic storage allocation to 1. (This can be tedious)

The newest 7.0 update allows alternate functionality which still can bottleneck your station manager's total trade capacity or reduces the efficiency of the station manager's trade fleet. The next method will produce one of the aforementioned results but works well if you do a lot of figuring out of a lot of things so that traders never stop between production cycles.

Option 3: Untick automatic on the traders ware basket and only allowing certain traders to trade certain wares. This method does not scale well for excessive consumption or large empires with dynamic demands but will probably be an attractive short term solution for your current needs.

Sadly we have to live with the fact that the station manager's priority ware mechanic is the boss of the player until they change it.

Edit: The priority ware mechanic is triggered by low station inventory. To avoid this mechanic you MUST keep station inventory ABOVE a specific amount. Otherwise the station manager will throw it's entire trade capacity at the issue.

[aldin]

Well the main issue is that the manager sends the trader to buy a shortage ware for which there is no trade order due to broken logic ( "buy up to" is lower than current stock ) and the traders gets into a endless loop stopping completely.

If I adjust allowed inventory to 1 then my factories will stop producing the shortage ware but traders will sell the end product, however, that is hardly a fix since the complex will stop producing.
I have a trade rule applied to the ware but doesn't help when the manager decides a ware is in shortage based on inventory level rather and would like to send the trader to buy a ware for which he can buy 0 and is not selected in ware basket. ( even if I select all wares the trader still completely pauses ).

I assume manager checks stocks and based on missing inputs gives order to trader to buy 0 of the prioritised ware. The trader replies - nope cannot find a trade.

[Venerable_Sin]

Originally posted by aldin:

Well the main issue is that the manager sends the trader to buy a shortage ware for which there is no trade order due to broken logic ( "buy up to" is lower than current stock ) and the traders gets into a endless loop stopping completely.

If I adjust allowed inventory to 1 then my factories will stop producing the shortage ware but traders will sell the end product, however, that is hardly a fix since the complex will stop producing.
I have a trade rule applied to the ware but doesn't help when the manager decides a ware is in shortage based on inventory level rather and would like to send the trader to buy a ware for which he can buy 0 and is not selected in ware basket. ( even if I select all wares the trader still completely pauses ).

I assume manager checks stocks and based on missing inputs gives order to trader to buy 0 of the prioritised ware. The trader replies - nope cannot find a trade.

This is why option 2 is tedious. You have to keep adjusting it to get the ware back on the station manager's trader's trade basket.

[Venerable_Sin]

The immediate solution to your issue is to "keep up supply for your demand". (I'm not trying to be rude, just speak the fact)
If you do this then the station manager's priority ware is a non issue. (Which is why the devs don't care too much about this issue.)
I'm fighting in Egosoft's forum to get this changed. Please add to the conversation.

[aldin]

I'll double check tomorrow maybe if I increase the buy order above 1 and with trade rule that only faction allowed this would allow manager to create a non zero order and maybe the ware basket would actually trigger at a later stage in loop and filter the priority set by manager out.

[Killzad]

Originally posted by Vinerable_Sin:

If you're looking for a manual solution then there are two methods that I'm aware of so that "the player is the boss of the station manager's priority ware mechanic"

Option 1: You can create a trade rule which prohibits player's assets from trading & apply that trade rule to problematic wares on the logical station overview. Station manager will continue to post trade offers for the wares (so NPC traders can supply them) but will not send any of their own ships to fetch the stuff. (I have not totally verified that method because it bottlenecks the station managers total trade capacity)

Option 2: You can adjust the stations automatic storage allocation to 1. (This can be tedious)

The newest 7.0 update allows alternate functionality which still can bottleneck your station manager's total trade capacity.

Option 3: Untick automatic on the traders ware basket and only allowing certain traders to trade certain wares. (This method does not scale well for excessively large consumption or large empires with huge demands but will probably be an attractive short term solution for your current needs.)

Excuse me if i may add to this. you could just tell him to add one more Plasma conductor module in production and the demand will be met and the problem fixed. Can't see his full logic but he will need only to buy the Hull parts/energy cell and sell only the Weapon Component. Also when the problem is fixed instead of unloading all Weapon Components as i see from the logic on the screen shot, set the Sell All but 90% of the storage if there also internal market for Weapons Component. But in any case he essentially now is selling Weapons Component at high price if the price is set to automatic. What mite happen, now the AI weapons component factories have more attractive sell orders. Since the automatic price is regulated by the % of available inventory in storage.

[Venerable_Sin]

Originally posted by aldin:

I'll double check tomorrow maybe if I increase the buy order above 1 and with trade rule that only faction allowed this would allow manager to create a non zero order and maybe the ware basket would actually trigger at a later stage in loop and filter the priority set by manager out.

If you want to "un-trigger" the priority ware mechanic then you will have to remove the priority ware from the station manager's trader's trade basket. The quickest manual way to do this without affecting your station managers total trade capacity is to put automatic storage allocation to 1. This is a temporary solution if you are unable to fill the ware but want other station wares to keep trading while waiting/sourcing the priority ware. Otherwise you can design your production network in a way that reduces the effect of the priority ware mechanic.

The other way is to not have the priority ware trigger in the first place. (have excess)

If you want an un-managed solution then whatever route you take will end in you needing patience while your traders do nothing unless you design your empire very rigidly.

A rigidly designed empire can lead to an empire that's unable to cope with a dynamic demand because of a priority ware mechanic. Example: You ordered an amount of ships or type of ship that is larger (or not within the rigid scope of production) than what your "empire" is capable of producing with an hour. Which basically will lead to waiting, unless you are willing to cope with inefficiencies within your empire (Having a crazy amount of production capacity that isn't needed or able to be sold). . . . .

The issue is the priority ware mechanic. Not being able to trump the mechanic easily or turn it off completely, when wanted/needed, causes the bottleneck that can appear like a bug.

[Venerable_Sin]

Originally posted by Killzad:

Excuse me if i may add to this. you could just tell him to add one more Plasma conductor module in production and the demand will be met and the problem fixed. Can't see his full logic but he will need only to buy the Hull parts/energy cell and sell only the Weapon Component. Also when the problem is fixed instead of unloading all Weapon Components as i see from the logic on the screen shot, set the Sell All but 90% of the storage if there also internal market for Weapons Component. But in any case he essentially now is selling Weapons Component at high price if the price is set to automatic. What mite happen, now the AI weapons component factories have more attractive sell orders. Since the automatic price is regulated by the % of available inventory in storage.

If you look at the screenshot you will see that the player is going for a very rigid production design approach. I'm trying to address the misinformation, not the play style or design choice.

I invite anyone to prove me wrong. It would only enhance my game play experience. I have yet to find a satisfactory solution to the priority ware mechanic with dynamic demand without having a lot of inefficiencies/overproduction/lack of activity. You just can't have your cake and eat it too..... Yet...

You're empire is either too rigid (doesn't work well with unexpected challenges or dynamic demand) or you just have to wait while one ware topples the entire production chain of one station manager.

Egosoft: Make the player the boss of the station manager, please.

[aldin]

Broken logic in manager logic decision is not really fixed by having perfect chains that always produce more than consumption. Running out of resources for end chains is not something I would call rigid. I have a complex producing weapon components and plasma conductors are being produced just at a tiny loss ( -4 /hrour ).

The issue is manager checks inventory stock for a required ware and decides on a priority ware and when the buy offer is for an amount smaller than current stock level for that ware then all the traders break. ( I tested with stock = 2 and buy offer up to = 1 )

It worked and I fixed it by adding a buy order to fill the inventory and applied a trade rule to prevent him from actually trading with anyone else than myself. I actually don't sell this ware anywhere

https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198267902246/screenshot/250

I am not a dev but perhaps the manager should :
- check the stock levels and decide on a prioritised ware
- check if the station has a buy offer for ware that is prioritised
- check ware basket

With current setup I think you need to keep up buy orders for the resources regardless if you produce them there or not ( or sell them anywhere else or not ) or all your sell traders will stop when a resource drops to critical inventory level.
I'll test that too but I got no idea what Egosoft set for the critical stock level.

[Azunai]

The higher tier factories are much more expensive than the lower tier ones. It's never a good idea to run them below capacity by providing too few input resources.

It's not what you're asking for, but the simple solution to your problem is to add another plasma conductor factory so the weapon components production doesn't interrupt due to shortages

You can sell off the overproduction of plasma conductors or simply let them idle for a cycle or two when the storage is full.

Or add habitats to the station so the production bonus from the workers fixes the shortage (2 conductors with a few % bonus are also enough for 6 weapon factories)

[aldin]

Well it seems now it is working for some reason and I can't reproduce it anymore ( full stock on the item I wanted to sell compared to 10% in previous test )

I don't want to add another plasma conductor or habitats.
Thanks for the help everyone.