Destroyer complicate choice (NPC pilot)

[BAG]

Hello,

Just a question about what you guys would suggest as a destroyer main fleet choice.
(I only own Split DLC)

If I was to fly a destroyer, I would - and is my choice - Fly the Split Destroyer for its damage output - in fact its my Commanding ship.
Yet, the low range for main weapon, and its very low shield, greatly reduce its survivability
(or eventually, I should send 20 of them at once, over a 9I . but yet I bet I would lose one or 2 of them)

I tried a fleet of Behemoth, from Argons. Slow but good shield and fair hull
I also tried the Paranid destroyer which hits a little harder and flies a bit faster than Argons destroyer.

So my question please:
Isnt the Paranid Destroyer the best choice in term of damage output and survivability as for my only DLC and available ships to me.

I did not try the Teladi one, which is out of competition imho.

Also, some hints for futur DLC available destroyer would be welcome. (Just to give me the taste)

EDIT:
btw, I find that a swarm of S-M ships are way more effective than destroyer vs destroyer
(I have made a couple of setups with split heavy fighters with selected weapon type), but I'de rather like to make my destroyers face other big things, with some support, instead of spamming S-M vessels

[blackphoenixx]

The Behemoth, Phoenix, Osaka and Syn have three shield slots. The Oddy only has two but is much faster and gets more L turrets. The Rattlesnake only has one shield but 4 main guns and 6 L turrets.
The Ray has four shields but abysmal firepower for a destroyer.

Which you use depends on what you want to use them for.
If you're guarding a jump gate go for one of the three shield ones, The Behemoth is cheapest but only has two L turrets, the Osaka has three L turrets but is both very slow and hideously expensive, the Phoenix has terrible turret placing (but that only matters IS).

If you're only fighting Khaak or want to use it as a patrol or fast-response ship for pirate hunting the Oddy or Rattlesnake are a better choice.

[EvilVictor]

Originally posted by -BAG-:

Just a question about what you guys would suggest as a destroyer main fleet choice.
(I only own Split DLC)

That depends, but a good general rule if you're going to have the AI fly them is more shields and more turrets are better than anything else for them.

While they will try to use the main gun they really only do that acceptably against stations.

I've had good luck with both the Behemoth and Odysseus as my AI back-up. If you're going after the Xenon sectors I think the Behemoth will be better over all as they can survive a bit longer and they're cheaper to replace. Against other factions the Odysseus can perform quite well.

I will use the Phoenix since I can get them for free from my SCA "buddies" and they do a good job of soaking up turret fire from the K's and I's while my other ships do the actual damage. I wouldn't pay for them though.

The Terran destroyers are easily some of the best for AI crews, so it's worth grabbing the DLC if you have a chance.

[Wraith]

I enjoy the Behemoth and Osaka

Behemoth got the range and survivability as well as being dirt cheap

Osaka got the firing angles and a very good main gun

[Kitet]

I own only the base game for now. I go against xenon or khaak using mixed fleet. Of course captured SCA vessels of both kinds, mixed with some Odysseuses. Sometimes I look at the map at the position I'm guarding and I see a gray symbol of the K near my fleet, one or two of my ships with slight hull damage and I'm like 'oh, missed another chance to get panel 46B'.

In another game I shelved for now, I built a fleet of 21 Odysseuses. I sent it to bring down a Type-I. I did so without loss on my end but not on the first try. I was even directing the battle. As soon as one of my ships decides to go under, therefore lets the I fire majority of its turrets at it, it's done for, regardless which one it is. I needed the I to stay still, then close in with all 21 ships almost at once, which is very hard to orchestrate. I divided them into 5 fleets of 3-4 ships to attack from different directions because one big swarm failed right at approach - bumping into each other, getting stuck for tens of precious seconds then blown away.

To me, Phoenixes and Behemoths are good when attacking khaak bases. All flak turrets with L-plasmas, 5 or 6 ships mop up the base with ease. I had to periodically peek at what they're doing because they would try to maneuver too close to the base.
One or two will repel any Khaak raid near my base in short amount of time. All of them have M-flak and L-plasmas. I tried lasers instead, thinking that less chance of missing is better, but it ended in failure.
I used 'Coordinate attack' against stationary targets so that my ships don't bump into each other on approach and lose all their shields, which they do very often when allowed freedom of attack vector. This command against moving Ks or Is is a no-go, of course, so there's that risk of friendly mutual shield stripping. Can't send them on their own against Type-I hoping for zero losses.

[Wenzilber]

The Behemoth remains to be the best "All Arounder". It's got 3 main shields, decent Hull HP and M turrets coverage. Its main batteries does less damage (compared to other destroyers) but they fire faster and generate less heat. A decent roll of at least the Basic Upgrade ("The Piercer" - a damage mod) is a must. A roll of over +15% damage makes its main weapon's burst damage on par with the Oddy while improving on its already higher sustained damage.

I just upgraded a Behemoth Vanguard (courtesy of the SCA pirates) to be my Personal ship. With Exceptional Mass+Drag mod, it turns about the same as a Cerberus and it goes for over 220 m/s while in combat, boosts for over 600 m/s, and does over 9,500 m/s in travel mode on PAR's All Around engines. It does 4,000+ burst dmg, 3,600+ sustained dmg, and around 1,500 turret damage. I got lucky on a roll on Pavise last night with over 67%, giving the Behemoth to have over 257,000 shields. Fighting M/S swarms feel more like a tickle on its shields now but I still wouldn't slug it out in close combat with a single Xenon K.

The Phoenix probably has the best Hull HP + Shield. It's turret placement makes it a very bad choice to be a "forward facing platform of death" (you'll want the PAR's Oddy or Split's Rattie for that) but it actually has a pretty decent M turret coverage to be an anti-fighters swarm platform. There are three huge blind spots that any experienced Boarding pilot knows about the ship but the AIs tend to not "exploit" those areas so they tend to wander in its M turrets' fire arcs a lot, often broadsiding. And mythbusting what seems to be popular belief about the Phoenix, it can actually fire its 2 L turrets at targets in front of it in 1 v 1 combat. From experience, they make great Jump Gate campers (defending space around your defense platforms) and defending your stations from pirates and hackers. I also tend to sacrifice one when busting through a Xenon gate. EDIT: They're also great at defending your L freighters - as long as they can travel faster than the L freighter that they're defending. Triangle formation helps keep them close to the L Freighter commander too.

If I had to restart and choose just 1 destroyer as my personal ship now, I would probably choose the Oddy E. It's shield is paper thin, sure ... but no shield can outlast a Xenon capital ship in close quarter combat anyway. I would choose it simply because it's the only Destroyer with a M dock (MOAR TURRETS!!!), it can broadside well with all 4 L turrets firing at range while turning to run away, and it's sleek design makes it appear as a smaller hit box for enemies to shoot at.

Unless if I had my own wharf and self sufficient in replacing lost fighters ... then it's the Behemoth for me (with an Auxiliary ship support ofc).

[Kalisa]

Paranid E destroyer is probably my fav of the basegame destroyers as a flagship due to its speed, medium docking bay and look, even with all dlcs i still often like to use the paranid ships allot, though terran dlc have the best heavy hitters out there when fit right, or if u want just a godly flagship, tides of avarice with the erlking is pretty much unstoppable once fully set up. but that falls under battleships

For AI Crew i find the paranid ships also do well with their normally high range

[Нагризолич]

Terrans have OP sheilds and engines. If you want a thick fleet - set split elephant as flagship and rattlesnakes as defenders. Elephant will tank everything while destroyers do the shooting. One elephant with 12 rattlesnakes easily plug any gate to xenon sectors, even when hordes of Ks and Is are flying through.

[theunknown]

ray might not have good firepower but it is pretty good against fighters and has those aoe turrets that can lock down a fleet/ship. so they should be pretty good as support (in a destroyer fleet no fighters as those guns affect your ships too if caught in the blast radius ) .. just don't expect them to be much help taking down stations... the ai isn't very good at using them yet tho. they still hardly ever use their main gun. thought it wouldn't add much damage in a station assault anyway.

[Erei]

The Rattlesnake (split destroyer) is actually quite weak. Low shield and poor range. A big thing about xenon is how they have lower range but great firepower. But the rattie need to be close to fire, which put it at risk to be shot back, especially with the AI who doesn't understand the concept of kitting.

Vanilla, the best destroyer would be the odysseus IMO. Non vanilla, for anti fighter duty I'd pick the Osaka, although the boron one might do the trick. For heavy lifting I'd pick the Syn.

Also don't use split flak and all. Use argon flak and paranid plasma. The Split gun have big damage but trash range and trash accuracy compared to the other faction. Big number means nothing when the ship can't hit s***.

For DLC :
-craddle of humanity add the Terran. Which come with a new "simplified" economy, some of the best military ship in the game (or in the top 10 easy), the best shield and engines (don't let the stats deceive you, they have a "hidden" faster travel acceleration). The content is also quite hefty and I would reccomend it the most
For destroyer, they add osaka (medium turret focused) and the syn ( a power house with many large turret). Their main gun is a kind of machine gun (which is cool IMO). The terran also have a "super destroyer", a battleship Asgard. Which, on top of the previously mentioned machine gun front gun come with a big spinal laser that can literally one shot a K. 2 actually if you time it right. And can also one shot (or almost) a I. It just take a while to cool down after firing.
-kingdom's end add the Boron. It's a big light on content and the biggets issue I have mechanically is that the boron ship and equipement doesn't work with anybody else. Borons ship come with boron gear and vice versa.
They have a weird destroyer that doesn't do much against large target but is actually OK against small
-Tides of avarice adds some pirate oriented people. It add the scrapping mechanic which is OK and some content (about half of it is pirate/smuggler oriented). Honestly, I'd rate it the lowest. Mechanically they have a really good heavy fighter, a unique battleship (only one per playthrough), a unique "yatch" thing (only one), and some actually-armed-L-transport. That doesn't transport much. No shield or anything (they take from other people). Overall it's very limited and I would not recomend it much.
They don't have destroyer. Or any combat L-XL ship. They have a unique battleship but you are limited to one at a time.


Oh and in craddle of humanity, you get a free syn fo doing a story mission, which involves mostly running around. You can get it by doing the quest as soon as you start the game.

[Wraith]

calls rattlesnake weak.

See rattlesnake taking down an I by itself IS.

The rattlesnake isn't made for a station sieges for sure but it does pretty fantastic against other capital ship

[Despiser]

I gotta go with odyssey E. designed for hard points and with the hard point mod strips down enemy destroyers in no time.

[fade7777]

Originally posted by Wraith:

calls rattlesnake weak.

See rattlesnake taking down an I by itself IS.

The rattlesnake isn't made for a station sieges for sure but it does pretty fantastic against other capital ship

definitely ... the rattlesnake is also really good for flanking attacks ... if it gets behind another ship and can unload its main guns on it .. not much can turn around in time to engage before they are decimated. and because its so fast .. at least in the players hands .. can pretty much do this at will.

however i have seen Rattlers struggle a bit in OOS combat. probably cause shield tanking is kinda OP in OOS.

[Kalisa]

i think in general split really struggle in oos combat due to their low shields and range, i at least notice this allot more in current game as more factions are starting to fight them and the poor split are getting utterly wrecked in most oos engagements.

[Erei]

In the hand of the player everything's strong. But in the hand of the AI the rattie is very poor. IS or OOS. The AI need to be closer than with any other destroyer to start firing the main gun. In return it tend to expose them to return fire more often than not. And the rattie MELT when it's shot.
In my last play I had some rattie thanks to the generosity of the free family who gave them to me (for some reason they loved attacking the teladi warf near the split territory, I just parked a boarding ship there). And I lost most of them before I decided to scrap the rest.

[Wenzilber]

The Oddy is a solid choice for sure. It really hits like a speedy train. One thing I dislike about the ship is its really low acceleration.

Even when fully upgraded with all purple ship mods (and highest possible RNG values), its acceleration is still on par with an XL ship instead of any its L counterparts. Its damage is really good though and she's one of the fastest in max speed.

The Oddy E looks like a submarine. It's probably fitting since the ship plays like a Submarine - hit your target hard then run and hide until you can fire your main weapons again.

The Oddy movement stats
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2992748857

The Colossus stats
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2992751144

Here's the Behemoth with similar ship movement upgrades as the Oddy
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2992748895


Don't let the Behemoth's "weak" damage output turn you off. It can solo a Xenon I and 4 Ks in one battle. It's 4 S docks mean that it can put out 4 Laser towers at the same time while backing away from a Xenon capital ship without any of the laser towers clipping on your ship.