Do I really need 100+ satellites?

[FM Helldiver Radio]

A lot of guides say you should place satellites around stations to keep trade data up to date.
I started doing that and after just two sectors, I already have 9 satellites deployed.
If I keep going like this, I’ll end up with 100 or more.
Do you really need that many?
Is there another (more efficient) way to keep trade data fresh?

[Damedius]

You can pay for Trade Subscriptions but they aren't cheap.

[Ram]

Satellites are an easy method to keep trade data up to date, but you should avoid it because they reduce performance of the simulation. The ideal method is to buy the Trade Subscriptions from faction representatives. However, they require high reputation and a lot of money.

The design of the vanilla subscriptions is pretty bad, since by the time you can afford them you don't really need them anymore. You could use mods[www.nexusmods.com] to make it more reasonable.

[🎮 PalkoVvodets 🔑]

The main advantage of satellites is general information they provide around. You see what actually happens in the universe and can make more accurate decisions.

[Myztkl©-Kev]

too many satellites can decrease FPS in the map, that's it. There is a toggle to turn them off if you are doing something in the map that requires more FPS. I have satellites everywhere, I like to see everything going on everywhere all the time.

[Zazoo]

It is sufficient to place satellites at all AI shipyards. You can then use scouts to update the trade data in a sector whenever necessary. You can either do this automatically or manually by letting the stations fly off with control+rightclick. This is sufficient until you have enough reputation and money for a trade subscription.

[Dracon]

FPS on the map matter very little, there is actually an entire youtube video about that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI5aTuQiDuo

[Millhillian]

No you don't and I've never done that. My miners and traders act as mobile sats until I can buy the trade subscription.

[Konril]

I actually have a little bit of trouble using satellites for trade subscriptions too. The biggest issue for me is that pirates, especially the Duke's Buccaneers, like to shoot those satellites down. So for keeping trade info updated, I learned to use "scouts" instead. They don't need to be actual scout class ships (although the Pegasus Vanguard is really good at the job if you have the extra credits for it). My scout of choice is the Callisto Vanguard, which happens to be the cheapest possible ship after a minimum preset is selected. Add trading software to the ship if it doesn't come with it by default, switch to a mk. 1 all-round or travel engine when building it, and have it explore sectors until you can get the pilot to a minimum of 1 star if a basic seminar doesn't do it.

To use the scout, set the default behavior to Repeat Orders, then tell it to fly and wait to each of the stations you want to monitor. Add new fly and wait commands as you discover new stations of note. The result is that the ship will fly to each station you wish to monitor in a loop, updating trade data as it goes along. You won't be able to cover the whole network with a single scout. But covering 5 or 8 sectors this way is no trouble at all.

Anyway, if you are interested in building a trade empire, satellites and scouts eventually become unnecessary. Your couriers, transports, and freighters will update trade data on all stations they do business with automatically. Once you build even the smallest solar power station in an area and set a courier to trade for that station, that station manager and courier will generally do a spectacular job of keeping the trade data in their range updated while earning you money.

[Doom]

Originally posted by FM Helldiver Radio:

A lot of guides say you should place satellites around stations to keep trade data up to date.
I started doing that and after just two sectors, I already have 9 satellites deployed.
If I keep going like this, I’ll end up with 100 or more.
Do you really need that many?
Is there another (more efficient) way to keep trade data fresh?

To cover entire universe you'll need about 8 hundred advanced satellites. You don' have to do it, though. You could send scout flying through the sector to refresh trades and there's trade subscription.

[jasonbarron]

I carpet bomb the universe with satellites. Constantly updated trade info can be obtained through trade subscriptions, but the additional benefit of a proper satellite network is that I can actually see what's happening in realtime around stations and gates.

I somewhere in the neighborhood of 350 satellites down, haven't noticed an impact on simulation performance.

[ayrtep]

Satellites everywhere is most useful when you are focusing on making money from auto-trading, so your auto-traders can always find the best deals.

If like me you only use auto-traders to farm reputation, using scouts, you don't really need satellites. Your not particular trying to make money from auto-trading. Just put advanced satellites in key points, like areas the AI keep asking you to build Defence stations; Xenon gates, places where construction ships hang out and such.

1. Place satellites everywhere. Say 5-10 million.
2. Use ships to run revisit stations order. Never found a way to automate this across sectors, so probably not practical??
3. Build Wide sensor arrays in every sector. 0.5 million a sector. More of an endgame options when you have lots of money and construction ships.
4. Don't bother, except drop the occasional advanced satellite when it looks useful.


You can use https://www.nexusmods.com/x4foundations/mods/437 plus https://www.nexusmods.com/x4foundations/mods/1630 to make dropping satellites easier.

No idea if the rumour of satellites damaging performance are real or not.

[Cadvan]

The biggest value of these trade subscription is that they include ALL Stations of faction. So even ones wich are unknown to you, now and in future.
So even if for example Hatikvah builds a station 100h later in a still unknown system 800km out of system range your trade filter and your traders will know about it, and be able to fly to it ;-)

[Bobucles]

Satellites cost least credits by far.
Satellites are the most expensive for game performance by far.
Early game? Drop those satellites. Place them around all the major stations, shipyards and wharfs and trade centers. Construction ships tend to park near those areas. Place satellites around ore/silicon refineries so your mining ships have places to sell. Other places are nice to have, but optional.
Mid game you have scout ships and radar stations. A single radar station costs about .5mil credits and will highlight most zones completely (not quite big enough to find erlking parts...). Scout ships should use "repeat order", click sector, "revisit known stations", next sector, "revisit known stations", do this for 5 or so sectors per scout.
Late game has trad subscriptions. Note this doesn't actually reveal all stations, it stops the prices from getting unknown.

IMO, things to fix? Satellites should be limited life and pop after 12-24 hours(mostly to clear out sat pollution). Radar stations should get a range bonus with multiple modules, and cost e-cell upkeep. Trade subscription should reveal stations. Stations should be revealed simply by being in most sectors, they're literally big enough to see with your own eyes why does a ship need to get 40km close to a station to go "yep, that thing taking up half the screen is a station".

[Doom]

Originally posted by Cadvan:

The biggest value of these trade subscription is that they include ALL Stations of faction. So even ones wich are unknown to you,

I'm fairly sure the subscription includes prices only for stations you know. Meaning you'll need to discover them.

Regarding performance, I've not noticed any significant effect from 800 satellites being active. The simulation is always running.

[Pathogenic]

Regular satellites are by far the cheapest way to get coverage of stations for a faction, far cheaper than using advanced sats or buying trade subscriptions.

They don't really impact performance as some people suggest. Even hundreds have barely any effect.